MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

[proudfootz]

None of those articles describes Teresa's scent being tracked to the quarry.

Bushman notified the mobile command post at Avery's property that his team of searchers discovered a potential burial site at the end of Kuss Road. The site drew heightened interest from "a bloodhound following the scent from Teresa's shoe insole"

Re: the blood pattern on the cargo door. This is testimony from the blood pattern expert.

"A. Yes, I have seen these stains at other scenes
where -- where we assume that a bloody object was
being handled and that these stains -- or this
blood was -- was -- appeared to have been flung
off or released from a bloody object.

Q. Would that be consistent with a body with bloody
hair being put into the back of this vehicle?

Yes, it would. And in this particular case,
this -- these stains don't necessarily require
the -- the bloody hair component; however, it is consistent with a bloody object such as a body
being comploded (phonetic) into the rear end of
this vehicle.
"

He seems to believe the drops were flung from Teresa's hair or body as she was being placed in there. Makes sense imo.

Some of the drops observed are the size of a pinhead or smaller, which sounds to me much more like impact stains than passive drops.

 

[dexter75]

I'm not sure about the test. I think that it is something that is not used or needed to be used enough. There are 3 on record that I know of, the OJ case, this case, and one other case, Cooper. The defense and the state seemed to agree that the doctor and the lab that was used in the Cooper case, was not a good option to do the testing, for either side. So outside of the FBI, I'm not sure who else could do the test.

On the surface, the problems I have with the test are that they only tested 3 (which happened to be the diluted swab ones), and that they didn't test to verify it was SA's blood. In LeBeau's testimony, he is very careful to say 'the swabs that were sent to me' all the time.

As for how the blood vial came about and was found by the defense before the State. Well, IMO, SA was saying from early on that they had his blood, LOTS of his blood, and if they didn't find it before Buting, too bad.... or maybe they should have called Colborn in to shake the box? [emoji3] And talking about LOTS of blood... where is this lots? According to the judge, SA should know where it is, and I'm surprised no one has asked him :facepalm: And then there is that email from KK to Culhane, where he comments that Wiegert is checking the blood to see if it is what it is. What blood? Thought they didn't find the blood? Is there more blood? If there were other tubes of blood taken from SA, where are they now? Did they contain EDTA too? or were they preserved with something else? What about the blood in his trailer?

And last but not least... for me, IMO, the volume of blood in that tube leaves me with questions! 10ml tube with 5.5ml of blood in it. 1ml was used up by the first lab. Stahlke's estimate of the blood stains to be 1-2ml's, but natural blood drops are .05ml's.:thinking:

Lots of questions, and this is just the beginning!


Dexter ~~~~~~ I pulled one of your stunts... I started this post this morning and ended up leaving before I finished LOL Came back and went oh shoot haha

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one that starts and stops😉
Just as I understood it
Diluted swabs
Blood not verified to be SAs
Test NOT proved to be ACCURATE..accurate to what standard? I don't know. I know enough to know
" peer reviewed " can be about as accurate as a coin toss. The information is out there and is easy to find. I'll say JMO because I'm going to get ice cream and in a hurry😉

Until you raised the point a while back, I hadn't thought about the AMOUNT of blood. Interesting for sure.

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[Limaes]

Bushman notified the mobile command post at Avery's property that his team of searchers discovered a potential burial site at the end of Kuss Road. The site drew heightened interest from "a bloodhound following the scent from Teresa's shoe insole"



Some of the drops observed are the size of a pinhead or smaller, which sounds to me much more like impact stains than passive drops.

I see now. I don't usually read articles by JF if I can help it. I would like to read Ertl's testimony. I don't think his actual reports are publically available. I do know though that the possible burial site they searched turned out to be irrelevent to the case.

Yes, they're described as impact stains by Stahlke. Meaning the blood coming off the hair/body and hitting the door is the impact.

 

[proudfootz]

I've seen the photographs - unless the RAV4 was standing on end gravity did not cause any drops to fall from Teresa's head onto the back door of the RAV4.

Combined with zero forensic evidence of any crime being committed against Teresa at Avery Salvage, the fact that bloodhounds tracked her at a completely different location indicates the police 'theory' of the case is entirely wrongheaded.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I see now. I don't usually read articles by JF if I can help it.

.

Respectfully snipped by me...

Why? Wouldn't you want to read everything you can with an open mind?

 

[Limaes]

I've seen the photographs - unless the RAV4 was standing on end gravity did not cause any drops to fall from Teresa's head onto the back door of the RAV4.

Combined with zero forensic evidence of any crime being committed against Teresa at Avery Salvage, the fact that bloodhounds tracked her at a completely different location indicates the police 'theory' of the case is entirely wrongheaded.

Well, according to the expert that is what happened as she was being placed in the Rav 4. I think I will go with his opinion.

I found Ertl's testimony where he attempted to bring up the bloodhound scent. Strangely, Buting objected and called it hearsay.

I thought, why did he object? Further research reveals a possible reason. The scent was tracked from SA's trailer. Kind of flys in the face of her driving off in the opposite direction imo.

This is why I stay away from JF articles.

 

[Limaes]

.

Respectfully snipped by me...

Why? Wouldn't you want to read everything you can with an open mind?

Sure, if they're written by open minded people.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Well, according to the expert that is what happened as she was being placed in the Rav 4. I think I will go with his opinion.

I found Ertl's testimony where he attempted to bring up the bloodhound scent. Strangely, Buting objected and called it hearsay.

I thought, why did he object? Further research reveals a possible reason. The scent was tracked from SA's trailer. Kind of flys in the face of her driving off in the opposite direction imo.

This is why I stay away from JF articles.

.
Ok~~but~~they tracked the scent from SA's house toward the deer camp....

Who is to say someone over at Randant's didn't see her and say Hey I have a car for sale, can you come look at it? She walks over and says, I don't have my camera, I'll drive around and get some pictures. Walks back to her car~~propane driver sees her and she proceeds to the deer camp.

The mere fact that her scent was tracked over by the berm toward the deer camp raises suspicion for me. So, tell me what do you think SA did to her over by the berm? It certainly doesn't fit the narrative by KK or MCSD.

I should say, all JMO.

 

[Limaes]

.
Ok~~but~~they tracked the scent from SA's house toward the deer camp....

Who is to say someone over at Randant's didn't see her and say Hey I have a car for sale, can you come look at it? She walks over and says, I don't have my camera, I'll drive around and get some pictures. Walks back to her car~~propane driver sees her and she proceeds to the deer camp.

The mere fact that her scent was tracked over by the berm toward the deer camp raises suspicion for me. So, tell me what do you think SA did to her over by the berm? It certainly doesn't fit the narrative by KK or MCSD.

I should say, all JMO.

I don't know enough about it BCA. If Buting didn't want the jury to hear it, and referred to it as hearsay, it may not even be true. Perhaps one day the rest of the papers will be released that has more details.

ETA: If Teresa got in her car and drove away, the dog would have went to where she was parked but it didn't. It allegedly went from the concrete step in a westerly direction towards the Kuss rd cul-de-sac.

 

[proudfootz]

.
Ok~~but~~they tracked the scent from SA's house toward the deer camp....

According to what I've read the 'red trailer' mentioned by the dog handler is one of the trailers at the 'deer camp' and NOT Steven's home.

ETA: Notice the report says the bloodhound tracking Teresa was at RADANT QUARRY - so no scent of Teresa was followed from Avery's.

Who is to say someone over at Randant's didn't see her and say Hey I have a car for sale, can you come look at it? She walks over and says, I don't have my camera, I'll drive around and get some pictures. Walks back to her car~~propane driver sees her and she proceeds to the deer camp.

The mere fact that her scent was tracked over by the berm toward the deer camp raises suspicion for me. So, tell me what do you think SA did to her over by the berm? It certainly doesn't fit the narrative by KK or MCSD.

I should say, all JMO.

Obviously, if we were going to hear about the bloodhound at the trial, we should hear from the dog's handler and not some random dude who says he heard the handler say something.

 

[proudfootz]

Sure, if they're written by open minded people.

I withdraw the reply.

 

[missy1974]

.
Ok~~but~~they tracked the scent from SA's house toward the deer camp....

Who is to say someone over at Randant's didn't see her and say Hey I have a car for sale, can you come look at it? She walks over and says, I don't have my camera, I'll drive around and get some pictures. Walks back to her car~~propane driver sees her and she proceeds to the deer camp.

The mere fact that her scent was tracked over by the berm toward the deer camp raises suspicion for me. So, tell me what do you think SA did to her over by the berm? It certainly doesn't fit the narrative by KK or MCSD.

I should say, all JMO.

Ok, wait. What red trailer? The one at the deer camp or SA's? It has never been clear to me, because the report said they were... at RADANDT QUARRY AND FIELD AREA. It doesn't say they were at the Salvage Yard at all.

 

[missy1974]

According to what I've read the 'red trailer' mentioned by the dog handler is one of the trailers at the 'deer camp' and NOT Steven's home.

ETA: Notice the report says the bloodhound tracking Teresa was at RADANT QUARRY - so no scent of Teresa was followed from Avery's.



Obviously, if we were going to hear about the bloodhound at the trial, we should hear from the dog's handler and not some random dude who says he heard the handler say something.

LOL again, I should have kept reading. This is my understanding too, it was the deer camp trailer. I just cannot believe that they would not have had the handler testify if it was SA's trailer. They had another one testify, but not this one.

I also agree, it was hearsay, and Buting was doing his job. However, they probably should have called the other handler, Fausk or even the officer that was with her to get that info into the trial. Of course KK wasn't going to do that, it would work against him. JMO

 

[proudfootz]

LOL again, I should have kept reading. This is my understanding too, it was the deer camp trailer. I just cannot believe that they would not have had the handler testify if it was SA's trailer. They had another one testify, but not this one.

I also agree, it was hearsay, and Buting was doing his job. However, they probably should have called the other handler, Fausk or even the officer that was with her to get that info into the trial. Of course KK wasn't going to do that, it would work against him. JMO

BBM

Yes, if the handler testified truthfully that no dog hit on Avery's home or garage, but did track Teresa at a location Steven never went near their whole case would be even more obviously a fraud perpetrated on the courts and the public.

 

[Madeleine74]

Buting objected and did not want this info coming in, and I assume he had a reason for objecting.

IMO reconstructing the crime is a guise when the common sentiment seems to be whatever LE found, regardless of what county they were from and regardless of what agency, can't be trusted or was manufactured or was part of some greater conspiracy.

Many cases I've followed have had their conspiracy theories to some extent but this case has taken it to a greater level from what I've seen before because of what I learned is a documentary that contained scenes of testimony spliced together to serve a specific (framed) agenda. That's not cool with me.

Thank goodness a copy of the trial transcripts and police reports were made available so at least there's an actual point of reference and a verbatim record.

 

[proudfootz]

Since the evidence that a bloodhound tracking Teresa to a different location while Steven was provably at home reflects well on his admitting his complete innocence of any crime against her, the reason for objecting to hearsay evidence is likely a technical one rather than something allegedly sinister.

What is curious is why police and the prosecution had little to no interest in who was covering their tracks by deleting Teresa's voicemails shortly after her disappearance, and I assume Kratz had a fit when this was brought up and didn't want any exploration of that issue discussed in open court.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I don't know enough about it BCA. If Buting didn't want the jury to hear it, and referred to it as hearsay, it may not even be true. Perhaps one day the rest of the papers will be released that has more details.

ETA: If Teresa got in her car and drove away, the dog would have went to where she was parked but it didn't. It allegedly went from the concrete step in a westerly direction towards the Kuss rd cul-de-sac.

.
Oh to have been a drone over the area when this happened.....

I just had a thought. IMHO, someone is talking. What if that person is SA??? You say, what could he say?

What if....half the story is true...

What if...SA and JR had planned to lure TH? We do know they had a conversation about clearing brush and SA doing the work for him. So, we do know the 2 talked.

What if their motivation was to SA her?

But, what if...he is really isn't the killer?

What if he walked over with her to the deer camp and JR actually killed her?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[missy1974]

Since the evidence that a bloodhound tracking Teresa to a different location while Steven was provably at home reflects well on his admitting his complete innocence of any crime against her, the reason for objecting to hearsay evidence is likely a technical one rather than something allegedly sinister.

What is curious is why police and the prosecution had little to no interest in who was covering their tracks by deleting Teresa's voicemails shortly after her disappearance, and I assume Kratz had a fit when this was brought up and didn't want any exploration of that issue discussed in open court.

This is where I think his lawyers dropped the ball. The voicemails, and the last cell tower. They seem to be important, and whether they missed it (I think Buting has said that they did in regards to the cell tower since Zellner filed in August) or skipped them for other reasons, I don't know. They did have a Cingular employee testify about the VM's, and he said a few times that he couldn't tell when VM's were erased with the report he had, why didn't they ask if he could get that report and what it said??? I wonder if Zellner has that report??? Maybe they did have it and it was somewhere in the mountain of documents.

 

[dexter75]

I see now. I don't usually read articles by JF if I can help it. I would like to read Ertl's testimony. I don't think his actual reports are publically available. I do know though that the possible burial site they searched turned out to be irrelevent to the case.

Yes, they're described as impact stains by Stahlke. Meaning the blood coming off the hair/body and hitting the door is the impact.

Is that how Stalhke specified the impact stains? I don't recall.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[proudfootz]

.
Oh to have been a drone over the area when this happened.....

I just had a thought. IMHO, someone is talking. What if that person is SA??? You say, what could he say?

What if....half the story is true...

What if...SA and JR had planned to lure TH? We do know they had a conversation about clearing brush and SA doing the work for him. So, we do know the 2 talked.

What if their motivation was to SA her?

But, what if...he is really isn't the killer?

What if he walked over with her to the deer camp and JR actually killed her?

Just thinking out loud.

Anybody could be talking.

I think it is most likely someone who knows about how Steven was set up to take the fall.

Since we know Teresa was subjected to harassment over the phone, this could suggest someone whose known MO is phone harassment: Ken Kratz.

He is also a predator of vulnerable women, and his desire to take one of his dates to an autopsy as a romantic prelude speaks of a very sick and twisted mind.

That would make perfect sense for how planters of evidence could find something like the RAV4 and human remains so quickly.