MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

[Limaes]

According to Barb Janda statements recorded by police she was selling her van and thought it was worth about $1000.

She was with Steven when the sex toys were purchased. She also bought some novelty restraints.

Barb Janda stated she saw a fire shortly before 8:00 PM and two people were at the fire. She went inside her home and Brendan was there and not at the fire.

She also reports the bonfire was out by midnight when she returned home.

This is gleaned from this reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur..._janda_interview_report_11142005_topics_barb/

Reddit isn't the best source for accurate info.

Not only was it SA's idea to sell the car (it wasn't even his but I guess that was the whole point) but they argued about it because she wanted to keep it for one of the boys.

Do you have a source for BJ claiming that BD was in the house and not at the fire? Official police interviews say otherwise. Why would she tell him to be home by 9 if he was already home?

BJ told investigators that she purchased cuffs and some lotion and SA purchased cuffs and leg restraints. She further explained that hers were fluffy pink ones and that she doesn't know what colour SA's were (animal print of some type).

Edited to remove image becausecit wasn't clear. You can find it in the CASO Reports

 

[Limaes]

I know😉 Kinda my point. Those cuffs, really??
TH was so strong he couldn't kill her by strangulation so he stabbed her..on a tarp..with THOSE cuffs restraining her the whole time???
Don't see it.

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What does Teresa being strong have to do with it? I recall Joe Kendra once saying how hard it is to strangle someone and the strength it would take. Even if the victim is restrained.

 

[Limaes]

Here is a link to the CASO report with the report of the interview with Barb. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=264

Here is a link to the report from the CASO report with an interview of owner of the store Intimate treasures and states 'two separate transactions made on the 10/09/05 that included leg cuffs and handcuffs' http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=257

I recall having a discussion about the "animal print", which came from the interview with Barb, the report states:

I informed her a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort.

The way I read that sentence is pink cuffs and something with an animal print (along with). Not that the cuffs were animal print. Barb purchased, and they took into evidence, her pink cuffs. She did state she bought some sort of lotion too.

They also got the one's from Steve's, exhibits 173, 174:
View attachment 106511View attachment 106512

The one's in the photograph you linked proudfootz... I recall discussing those too.... they look like they are Barbie size! lol

Again though.... with those cuffs, he would be able to cuff 1 hand to 1 post, 1 foot to 1 post. What about the other 2 limbs? I have read that in the State's latest brief against BD, the State said that the bedsheets were burned and that's why there was no evidence in the room. That statement is just so ridiculous IMO Like blood doesn't soak through a sheet into a mattress? LOL Trace evidence wasn't found on the floor, not a dang shred of TH's DNA in that bedroom, or cuffs. No signs of the cuffs or rope being on the headboard either according to testimony.

Rope.

Well it didn't soak onto the floor of the cargo area in the Rav 4 did it? And we know she was in there...bleeding! This is something can't be ignored. The reason that there was no blood there is the same reason there was none on the bed...tarp/plastic.

 

[Limaes]

The hand cuffs again? Really?
Th was not restrained and murdered in that trailer. (I will add IMO but you know I am ROLLING MY EYES!).

Yes, the handcuffs again. He had no intention of waiting until JS got out of jail imo.

I also find it stupefying , (if predictable and sadly, rigid and closed minded), that some people are going with the Ken Krantz version as if it is gospel! We do know there are those who will say SA is guilty, even when he is exonerated. We have seen it before in the Penny b crime. What can you do... No amount of In-Your-Face evidence to the contrary will ever make the blind see...

It is also equally stupefying that people continue to claim not to have been swayed by a documentary because they have read all documents and reports but still repeat the diatribe of MaM.

My own theory, ( of sorts), is that TH encountered her assailant after she left ASY. It is difficult to compose a "simplistic" version of what really went down, because we were not being spoon fed carefully crafted alternatives, like we were the SA did it version.
In fact, much of the other avenues were deliberately obscured leaving gaps in ability to "see" the real picture. Hopefully KZ will shed some light on those deceptions....

What I have to work with is what seems impossible...That a crime took place on SA property. We have NO crime scene! We have the the partial remains of a victim on the property, but no evidence that a murder ever took place there. I find that excruciatingly difficult to over look. ( among other things!).

Teresa was last seen walking towards SA's trailer. No one heard from her again. Not even slightest bit of evidence that she left plus SA has no alibi. Teresa's cremains, personal property and vehicle are crime scenes so I'm not sure how you can claim there are none.

So my working theory goes something like this:

TH encounters someone after she leaves ASY, be it her ex, who is suspect for reasons that have been well gone over... (Only problem I have with him as a suspect is in all honesty, the dude strikes me as such a wimp, I cant picture him going out there with a gun.)... I have a problem with the whole gun thing, It wouldn't surprise me to learn she was shot after death actually...

But if she was shot and killed, than someone who was out hunting could've done it accidentally... Or she was deliberately killed, for reasons unknown to us, and whomever did that, fell under police surveillance, a deal was struck, SA was EASILY framed, (It did not take a massive conspiracy effort, as some like to claim.), and MCSO jumped all over that investigation to ensure secrecy and conviction of SA.

(I'm exhausted guys...I mailed out a ton of Christmas stuff...yesterday! Yikes. I so suck this season lol!

I wanted to post a more detailed, linear depiction of what I think happened, but I cant get it together just now... sucks that BD will have another Christmas in the joint though!)....

In all sincerity, if you don't know who did it, how can you say who didn't?

 

[Limaes]

Right?
No blood, no sign of a struggle, no screaming, no smell, no one sees anything, at all, unusual that day...

Did SA use some kind of voodoo magic?
I don't think he's that clever. Certainly not a Shaman! LOL!

Well, when you point a gun at a young girl, you're not going to get much of a struggle are you? But that is what makes him the coward he is imo. He did the same thing to SM. I can imagine Teresa trying to keep a calm head and maybe thinking once he got what he wanted, he would let her go. It must be terrible for her loved ones that so many are willing to give him a pass rather than contemplate that he, in fact, is a murderous sexual deviant.

 

[Limaes]

.
One would think that there would have been a struggle to get her into the bedroom to cuff her and thus her DNA somewhere in the room..or did SA tarp the floors too. :facepalm:

The bedroom was within arms distance from the front door. Do you think she walked around just flicking her DNA everywhere? Besides, who knows what he did in the almost 4 hours before she got there.

 

[Limaes]

I'm still no further along in the series but I have taken the opportunity, since it's slow at work prior to the holidays, to read up on the case from what's available here on WS. I'm drudging away...

Am I correct that the only evidence of a rape is from BD's confession?

I'm no expert but why the heck would he take her to the bedroom to rape her? Did he light a candle and play soft music too? Rape is usually brutal and spontaneous, where the rapist is likely to attack, knock the person down and rape on the spot. I believe tieing the victim up is done to prolong the desire and fantasy and likely so repeat assaults can happen. This fits with BD's theory but there is, um, to phrase it delicately, a certain amount of cleanup required of both the victim and the rapist. There is no DNA on door knobs, light switches, in the bathroom, on towels, on clothes, etc.

How do both SA and BD rape her and not leave her DNA anywhere?



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If that was a part of his fantasy to rape and torture females, but I doubt it. Although he did light bonfire.

Rapes happen on the spot? So rapists do their thing in public?

 

[Limaes]

He didn't do it. I mean there's really no other conclusion you can come to. With the totality of everything that we know, that's just not possible. LE even had to make **** up, ( KK's press conference). There is no way, in heck, that SA, committed this murder, without leaving a single bit, of UNPLANTED evidence that he did so!

TH's blood was all over the back of the RAV. WHERE IS THE BLOOD that was surely spilled getting her in there? I want someone to explain to me, how SA lifted her body, from the murder scene to the back of her car, without a so much as a single drop of blood in evidence, ANYWHERE, other than the back of the RAV. ( for starters)...

No it wasn't and that is why the no blood in the trailer or garage argument is not a strong one. To explain why there is no blood on the floor of the cargo area, one has to admit that she was wrapped in something...like tarp.

Her blood was found dripped on the inside of the cargo door and IIRC, the blood pattern expert said it dripped off something (most likely her head as they were putting her in).

 

[Limaes]

In this context cause of death would be relevant to whether there was a murder, and time and place of death would be relevant in trying to determine who might be responsible for the crime.

I can't speak for other potential jurors, but those would be points of fact I would be interested in.

So two bullets to the head from SA's gun is not evidence of the cause or that she was murdered? Are you saying she could have shot herself in the head?

 

[IDK]

As a frequent user of tarps (camping, etc) most tarps are not absorbent.(there are some specialty tarps, specifically for containing spills and leaks. I have never seen evidence that SA owned such a thing) Large amounts of liquid would roll right off of it, not be contained by the tarp itself. In the same way, fibers would slide right off of it. Such as hairs, skin particles, etc. IMO, it would be very difficult to contain all the evidence of a grisly murder on a tarp, even if it was rolled up and burned afterwards.

 

[IDK]

If that was a part of his fantasy to rape and torture females, but I doubt it. Although he did light bonfire.

Rapes happen on the spot? So rapists do their thing in public?

Hello, where is a link which shows SA had a fantasy to rape and torture females? A sketch that he supposedly made in prison? As reported by a fellow inmate? Sorry, I don't find that a credible resource. If you have anything other than that, would love to see it.

 

[dexter75]

Hello, where is a link which shows SA had a fantasy to rape and torture females? A sketch that he supposedly made in prison? As reported by a fellow inmate? Sorry, I don't find that a credible resource. If you have anything other than that, would love to see it.

Hmmmm
If memory serves me right, this was another Kratz version wasn't it?🙄

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[IDK]

Hmmmm
If memory serves me right, this was another Kratz version wasn't it?

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Yep, with absolutely no evidence to back it up.This was KK's blatant fevered fantasy to build hatred and disgust against SA, IMO. He was very successful in swaying public opinion against SA, as evidenced by those who continue to think SA was guilty of the attack on PB, despite being successfully exonerated.

 

[IDK]

Yes, the handcuffs again. He had no intention of waiting until JS got out of jail imo.



It is also equally stupefying that people continue to claim not to have been swayed by a documentary because they have read all documents and reports but still repeat the diatribe of MaM.



Teresa was last seen walking towards SA's trailer. No one heard from her again. Not even slightest bit of evidence that she left plus SA has no alibi. Teresa's cremains, personal property and vehicle are crime scenes so I'm not sure how you can claim there are none.

a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.


In all sincerity, if you don't know who did it, how can you say who didn't?

See bolded above. Not an accurate description, IMO.
Diatribe: "a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something."
KK's press conference on the other hand.....

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Rope.

Well it didn't soak onto the floor of the cargo area in the Rav 4 did it? And we know she was in there...bleeding! This is something can't be ignored. The reason that there was no blood there is the same reason there was none on the bed...tarp/plastic.

.
Happy Holidays Limaes!

I don't agree, so we can agree to disagree.

I don't believe there was more blood in the RAV 4 because the cargo mat is missing. I have owned several Toyota SUV's and they all come with a cargo mat. I believe the stuff that was found back there was thrown in there after TH was removed. You can see in the picture where the dirt is heavier in certain areas than where the mat would lay.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Do you have a source for BJ claiming that BD was in the house and not at the fire? Official police interviews say otherwise. Why would she tell him to be home by 9 if he was already home?

.
According to the CASO reports, page 264...

We asked BARBARA if she could recall the date of 10/31/05, Halloween, and her activities that day. BARBARA said she had gone to work and had returned home at approximately 4:50 p.m.or 5:00 p.m. BARBARA said BLAINE, BOBBY and BRENDAN were all home at 5:00 p.m.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/CASO-Records-Request-Response_redacted.pdf

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The bedroom was within arms distance from the front door. Do you think she walked around just flicking her DNA everywhere? Besides, who knows what he did in the almost 4 hours before she got there.

.
I doubt that she went willingly into his bedroom..there had to be a struggle and during a struggle she would have left skins cells somewhere, no?

 

[proudfootz]

So two bullets to the head from SA's gun is not evidence of the cause or that she was murdered? Are you saying she could have shot herself in the head?

AFAICT no test showed that particular gun had been fired recently, or evidence of blowback from shooting a person at close range.

Assuming she was shot in the head with a small caliber weapon, it has been known to happen that sometimes people do shoot themselves in the head.

And sometimes people are accidentally shot in the head (and thus not murder).

So the answer is Teresa could have been shot in the head and there could still be no murder.

 

[proudfootz]

Reddit isn't the best source for accurate info.

If you say so. But they are direct quotes from a police report (which may not be the best source for accurate info either).

Not only was it SA's idea to sell the car (it wasn't even his but I guess that was the whole point) but they argued about it because she wanted to keep it for one of the boys.

It seems odd that in this plot any car would be needed at all. If the intent was just to kill the photographer when she shows up there's no need to make it more complicated by involving Barb at all. There were probably plenty of cars within a hundred yards that someone could pretend to be selling.

Do you have a source for BJ claiming that BD was in the house and not at the fire? Official police interviews say otherwise. Why would she tell him to be home by 9 if he was already home?

As quoted from the police report on the reddit thread I linked:

BARBARA said she returned home at about 7:45 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. and told BLAINE and BRENDAN she was going over by SCOTT's house for a while.

BARBARA said when she returned home at 8:00 p.m., she did see a rather large fire, approximately three feet high, in the pit at STEVEN's garage. She said she could tell there were two people standing there; however does not know who that was.

Makes it rather look like the unknown persons standing by the fire couldn't be Brendan or Blaine, as she knew exactly where they were because she talked to them about her plans.

http://imgur.com/Ovs7ILk

BJ told investigators that she purchased cuffs and some lotion and SA purchased cuffs and leg restraints. She further explained that hers were fluffy pink ones and that she doesn't know what colour SA's were (animal print of some type).

Yes, both of them purchased novelty items from a sex shop. I don't think anyone's denied that.

 

[dexter75]

Yep, with absolutely no evidence to back it up.This was KK's blatant fevered fantasy to build hatred and disgust against SA, IMO. He was very successful in swaying public opinion against SA, as evidenced by those who continue to think SA was guilty of the attack on PB, despite being successfully exonerated.

Ok😉
Thanks so much for that, my friend❤ Sometimes it's hard to keep it all straight. Good source bad source.
Kratz, O'Donnell,
Reddit, CASO, Stevenavery,
I appreciate it😉

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