MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

[missy1974]

.
Welcome to the thread MyTinkieGirl! :welcome4:

Nice to have some I think he is guilty on the thread and posing questions other than the obvious...

You and Ilovedateline have brought up some excellent points and insight~~so~~thank you for that.

I have found http://www.stevenaverycase.org/ to be one of the best sources of information on the case and is my go to place when I want to reference back to something.

I agree! Nice to have a new perspective

I am pretty good at providing links, so if anyone is looking for specific information and not sure where to look, just post, I will provide the link if I can

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Excellent Job explaining Missy! Thanks!

I don't have the patience to type all that out...LOL

Anyway~~a few comments I noted while reading...

The Whitelaw tower would be able to reach the Salvage yard without a doubt. Generally the range is about 20 miles and 30 miles in rural areas. With that said...the phone would have pinged off of sector 1, which would have made it 21101~~which doesn't fair well for SA.

Oh~~was in the ER last week with a family member~~and~~of course~~I asked about a blood draw...LOL

What the ER nurse told me was that a vial holds 2ml of blood. Not sure what type of vial she was using (I didn't look at the cap) or if she was even accurate, but that is what she told me for what it's worth.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I currently have 2 theories of who might have done it and how.

My first theory is the employee of JR got into an accident with TH on Hwy 151 and JR told them both to come back to the quarry, things went downhill from there and the nearby location of the salvage yard gave JR and the employee easy access to plant evidence. I don't believe it was to frame SA~~it was to get rid of evidence that would have pointed the finger at JR. LE finding the car assumed it was SA (just by the car being there) and couldn't come up with anything but circumstantial, so the helped the case along by planting evidence.

For instance, the key. We all know that the key found is SA's trailer was the spare key. The prep disposed of the original set (you know the ones with her house key, studio key, etc.)

My second theory is a person rejected by TH. This person happened to have rented a place on the same block as the Sonoran Court, Green Bay, WI. If you look at the lead sheet from 10/29/05, it states cancel next to the appointment, but if you look closely at the hustle shots at the bottom, she did a hustle shot on Sonoran Ct. So that means she was there at some point in time, just not for the original appointment requester.

 

[missy1974]

Excellent Job explaining Missy! Thanks!

I don't have the patience to type all that out...LOL

Anyway~~a few comments I noted while reading...

The Whitelaw tower would be able to reach the Salvage yard without a doubt. Generally the range is about 20 miles and 30 miles in rural areas. With that said...the phone would have pinged off of sector 1, which would have made it 21101~~which doesn't fair well for SA.

Oh~~was in the ER last week with a family member~~and~~of course~~I asked about a blood draw...LOL

What the ER nurse told me was that a vial holds 2ml of blood. Not sure what type of vial she was using (I didn't look at the cap) or if she was even accurate, but that is what she told me for what it's worth.

Remember the pictures that looked like towers on the floor in Zellner's office? I recall someone on reddit putting it on a map, and I don't think the tower made it the Salvage yard, if it could, I'm not sure Zellner would have put it in the motion, but who knows LOL It's always bothered me that it wasn't brought up on either side in the trial, at that time, pings/cell phones were becoming a big thing IIRC

I have looked everywhere for the vial volume info, and even asked on other sites, my conclusion.... it's absolutely possible that 1-2ml's of blood could have been missing from the vial, I'm still not 100% sure, but it really does sit at the back of my mind every time the blood comes up. The amount depends on the size of the vial. The vial in this case was a 10ml vial, it has to have the right volume for the amount of EDTA in the tube for it to work how it was intended. The same is for any other vial, depending on what is in that vial, a minimum amount is required, and the vacuum is supposed to be able to draw that particular amount or more from what I have found researching. ( I have spent way too much of my life looking for this info, including the company website and reading all their available info LOL)

 

[Limaes]

I have had a theory down for several months now, although I have changed a few things over time. This theory is the result of a lot of research I have done through the many documents available to the public. Some of my theory is known facts and some is my interpretation of what I feel happened...


SA contacted AT and deceptively gave his sister's details and phone number along with a false story that a van was being sold. It was not.

Teresa called that number to give an approximate time of her arrival along with a request to return her call because she had no idea where she was supposed to be going or who, exactly, requested her.

Teresa left a message at around 2.13pm on the Z's answering machine telling them that she is having a problem locating the house, not the street, and she would be there within minutes. At around 2.27pm, she told AT that she was headed out to Avery Salvage Yard. She was both seen and heard after leaving the Z's and it was during this time that SA blocked his number when calling her twice. Considering the approximate arrival time she gave had passed, he must have been getting jittery that she wasn't coming.

At around 2.40 - 2.45pm Teresa was seen by BoD photographing the van and minutes later he also seen her walking towards SA's trailer. The B.o.S and the AT magazine were found inside the trailer so she made it to the door. She was never seen or heard from again.

In my opinion, it was this moment that SA abducted Teresa at gunpoint (like he attempted with SM). He had left work around 11.00am and did not return for the rest of the day. This gave him almost 4hrs to create his makeshift torture chamber that he had been fantasising about since he was in jail. Teresa was not like the other women he had assaulted previously. She was an unknown and there was no telling how capable she was of fighting him off so she would have to be restrained. She would go to the police, and be believed (like SM), so she would have to die. He wasn't going back to prison for the rest of his life and risk losing the money he legitimately had coming his way so he took precautions before committing pre-meditated murder. In those 4 hours, he covered his bed with tarp (or something similar) then placed the leg restraints and rope around the bedposts. The tarp was purely for capturing any blood or other evidence transfer. Once he destroys the tarp, he destroys any trace of her. She was supposed to die on that tarp covered bed but he found out that killing another human being was harder than he had thought.

BD arrived home around 3.45pm so he was obviously not involved in the initial abduction and I believe he was being truthful when he said SA answered the door sweaty and all red (eww). Poor Teresa must have thought his arrival, some time after he got home, meant her ordeal was over but instead of getting her help, at his Uncle's perverted encouragement, he joined in. Once BD was physically involved, there was no turning back and SA had him on the hook. Imo, SA first tried to manually strangle her, like he had done to previous women, but, like the others...she didn't die and just like BD's detailed and specific description, SA got a knife from the kitchen and plunged it into the poor girl. Contrary to what his defense team would have the public believe, their client's actions would not leave blood all over the walls and floor as opposed to a stabbing frenzy (apologies if it sounds graphic) where the blood flies from the knife as it is being lifted again and again. She may have been unconscious but still alive. Imo, they took off her restraints, covered her over with the tarp then carried her out to the garage. She had to have been shot at least 3 times. 2 into the left side of her head (which BD accurately stated) and one went through soft tissue and ended up under machinery in the garage. BD's diagram is frightenly accurate and the trajectory of the bullet, containing Teresa's DNA, from SA's gun tells the true story.

Imo, she was then placed into the back of her own car and the garage door was closed up before BD went home so he would be there before his mum got home. SA goes to his mother's house before he shows up at the Yard's office and RF is there. This is when CA asks if the photographer showed up and SA answers with a lie "no". By the time EA & RF drive up to SA's in the golf cart, he is back home and now showered. EA says he was standing stiff as a board and wasn't himself and RF says something similar and also that he smells burning plastic coming from the barrel because Teresa's personal items were placed in there probably right after he made the 4.35pm call without blocking his number (he knew she wasn't going to answer). He was stiff as a board because he knew full well there was a deceased girl in his garage and he wanted to hurry up and get rid of her but he had to wait until the salvage yard closed at 5pm. EA is at the Optometrist picking up his new glasses before 5.30pm so this means they were talking to SA before 5, not after and BJ had most likely arrived home around 5.

At some stage later on that night, BD helps SA collect debris for the fire, and as he described, put her [still in the tarp], and anything else they used in the crime into the fire. The bones intertwined with the steel from the tyres and the van seat indicates that is where her body was placed and mutilated. They clean the garage with Teresa's clothing while the fire is blazing before destroying them along with her. SA did horrible things to women he was supposed to have loved so I have no doubt that he got through 2 phone calls with JS without flinching or acting any different. Some time between that night and the Saturday morning, I think he took the biggest bone pieces out of the pit and placed them where they were more out of sight because he feared even an untrained eye would know what they were.

Continued next post...

 

[Limaes]

Somewhere during all this, SA injures his finger and his trail of blood gives away his movements that night. He bled in his bathroom, Teresa's car and his own car. It is surprising that none of his attorneys have run tests to compare each of those blood spots to each other since they're so convinced it was planted.

I believe they moved the RAV 4 up to the pit area later that night and attempted to conceal it from those who would be the first to notice how out of place it was...his brothers. Imo, SA was planning on coming back to the property on Saturday night when EA had gone home, and the rest were up in Crivitz, to prepare and crush the car. I also think SA not only needed to keep a key to get rid of the RAV 4, but he was going to keep it as a souvenir. If he had have been successful destroying the car, and then he was found to be in possession of the key, it could not have been connected to Teresa's car without her DNA so he cleaned it himself. The only person it helps for her DNA or fingerprints to be missing from the key is SA, not the cops imo.

Conclusion

They're both guilty as charged and lawfully convicted. It will be forever unknown exactly what happened to Teresa on what must have been a terrifying ordeal for her. BD was the only one of them with the chance to walk out of prison one day, at a reasonably young age too. He should have been the focus of that family, including his Grandparents, but instead they coerced him into saying the cops made him say it and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be bad for SA and the potential compensation payout they wanted a slice of. This has only resulted in them both sitting in jail and I think BD will have a hard time being paroled when the time comes while he continues to show no remorse or accept responsibility for his part in the crime. Unfortunately, the MaM gravy train still has momentum but it will eventually hit the wall. Teresa's family can then live their life without constantly hearing about these 2 incorrectly labeled victims, KZ will blame the system as she walks away and the public will go back to forgetting about them.

 

[dexter75]

Somewhere during all this, SA injures his finger and his trail of blood gives away his movements that night. He bled in his bathroom, Teresa's car and his own car. It is surprising that none of his attorneys have run tests to compare each of those blood spots to each other since they're so convinced it was planted.

I believe they moved the RAV 4 up to the pit area later that night and attempted to conceal it from those who would be the first to notice how out of place it was...his brothers. Imo, SA was planning on coming back to the property on Saturday night when EA had gone home, and the rest were up in Crivitz, to prepare and crush the car. I also think SA not only needed to keep a key to get rid of the RAV 4, but he was going to keep it as a souvenir. If he had have been successful destroying the car, and then he was found to be in possession of the key, it could not have been connected to Teresa's car without her DNA so he cleaned it himself. The only person it helps for her DNA or fingerprints to be missing from the key is SA, not the cops imo.

Conclusion

They're both guilty as charged and lawfully convicted. It will be forever unknown exactly what happened to Teresa on what must have been a terrifying ordeal for her. BD was the only one of them with the chance to walk out of prison one day, at a reasonably young age too. He should have been the focus of that family, including his Grandparents, but instead they coerced him into saying the cops made him say it and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be bad for SA and the potential compensation payout they wanted a slice of. This has only resulted in them both sitting in jail and I think BD will have a hard time being paroled when the time comes while he continues to show no remorse or accept responsibility for his part in the crime. Unfortunately, the MaM gravy train still has momentum but it will eventually hit the wall. Teresa's family can then live their life without constantly hearing about these 2 incorrectly labeled victims, KZ will blame the system as she walks away and the public will go back to forgetting about them.

Interesting
SO SA is so very careful & strategically places a tarp so perfectly that NO blood, fibers, or DNA get onto the bed, wipes down the key, yet bleeds all over the RAV never thinking to double check for blood KNOWING he cut his hand? Anything is possible😉
And the restraints, where are those? Were restraints found with ANY evidence on them? ( just trying to remember here )
And you're saying Avery premeditated everything, yes?
He had this all planned before he called auto trader?
Interesting

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[dexter75]

RSBM.

Thanks for the info on the specific threads. There is SO MUCH available on WS. It's very daunting to try to come in after the fact and get up to speed. I decided to start at the beginning with the first thread discussion TH disappearance. I'll check out the bones and burn pit threads.

I should reserve my thoughts until I read those threads and make an informed decision but, as of now, my first reaction is there is no way to get rid of a body and no reasonable person believes that a body can be burned to the degree that it cannot be found. It is my position, in general, that a body is burned to destroy evidence, not to get rid of the body. I can't speak to the degree that her remains were burned because I don't know enough about that yet, however, under the understanding that a reasonable person would know it's not possible to destroy all of the remains, I seriously question the location of the burn pit. Doesn't make sense to me. Even taking the body away and trying to burn it in barrels, or otherwise, doesn't seem like it would work well.

I have a lot to get caught up on.

You're right, my friend...so much to catch up on for sure😉
Nice to read your pov on this case and hope you continue to post😉

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[dexter75]

Excellent Job explaining Missy! Thanks!

I don't have the patience to type all that out...LOL

Anyway~~a few comments I noted while reading...

The Whitelaw tower would be able to reach the Salvage yard without a doubt. Generally the range is about 20 miles and 30 miles in rural areas. With that said...the phone would have pinged off of sector 1, which would have made it 21101~~which doesn't fair well for SA.

Oh~~was in the ER last week with a family member~~and~~of course~~I asked about a blood draw...LOL

What the ER nurse told me was that a vial holds 2ml of blood. Not sure what type of vial she was using (I didn't look at the cap) or if she was even accurate, but that is what she told me for what it's worth.

I love how your mind is always thinking😉❤

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[Limaes]

Interesting
SO SA is so very careful & strategically places a tarp so perfectly that NO blood, fibers, or DNA get onto the bed, wipes down the key, yet bleeds all over the RAV never thinking to double check for blood KNOWING he cut his hand? Anything is possible😉

Any numb nut can throw a sheet of tarp over a bed. It's not rocket science. No, blood, fibers or any other trace evidence would not float through the air and sneak under the tarp. Just like it didn't in the RAV 4 [emoji6]

Yes, he wiped Teresa's fingerprints/DNA off the key because he was keeping it, until he destroyed the RAV 4 at least. No, he didn't clean his own blood from the RAV 4 because he was not keeping it . It was going in the crusher. If the RAV 4 was never found, all that was left was the key. He removed evidence from it so it couldn't be connected to Teresa or her car but in doing so, he left his own DNA on it 😁

And the restraints, where are those? Were restraints found with ANY evidence on them? ( just trying to remember here )

Thank you for reminding me, I will have to add that SA purchased leopard print cuffs. To my knowledge, the leopard print covering has never been found. I guess that can be added to the list of things that went in the fire.

And you're saying Avery premeditated everything, yes?
He had this all planned before he called auto trader?
Interesting



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Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

 

[proudfootz]

According to Barb Janda statements recorded by police she was selling her van and thought it was worth about $1000.

She was with Steven when the sex toys were purchased. She also bought some novelty restraints.

Barb Janda stated she saw a fire shortly before 8:00 PM and two people were at the fire. She went inside her home and Brendan was there and not at the fire.

She also reports the bonfire was out by midnight when she returned home.

This is gleaned from this reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur..._janda_interview_report_11142005_topics_barb/

 

[proudfootz]

Interesting
SO SA is so very careful & strategically places a tarp so perfectly that NO blood, fibers, or DNA get onto the bed, wipes down the key, yet bleeds all over the RAV never thinking to double check for blood KNOWING he cut his hand? Anything is possible
And the restraints, where are those? Were restraints found with ANY evidence on them? ( just trying to remember here )
And you're saying Avery premeditated everything, yes?
He had this all planned before he called auto trader?
Interesting

BBM

AFAICT this is the photograph of the 'cuffs' as they were found in Steven's bedroom (in red circle).

http://imgur.com/6UB1ajo

 

[dexter75]

BBM

AFAICT this is the photograph of the 'cuffs' as they were found in Steven's bedroom (in red circle).

http://imgur.com/6UB1ajo

I know😉 Kinda my point. Those cuffs, really??
TH was so strong he couldn't kill her by strangulation so he stabbed her..on a tarp..with THOSE cuffs restraining her the whole time???
Don't see it.

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[missy1974]

According to Barb Janda statements recorded by police she was selling her van and thought it was worth about $1000.

She was with Steven when the sex toys were purchased. She also bought some novelty restraints.

Barb Janda stated she saw a fire shortly before 8:00 PM and two people were at the fire. She went inside her home and Brendan was there and not at the fire.

She also reports the bonfire was out by midnight when she returned home.

This is gleaned from this reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur..._janda_interview_report_11142005_topics_barb/

Here is a link to the CASO report with the report of the interview with Barb. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=264

Here is a link to the report from the CASO report with an interview of owner of the store Intimate treasures and states 'two separate transactions made on the 10/09/05 that included leg cuffs and handcuffs' http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=257

I recall having a discussion about the "animal print", which came from the interview with Barb, the report states:

I informed her a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort.

The way I read that sentence is pink cuffs and something with an animal print (along with). Not that the cuffs were animal print. Barb purchased, and they took into evidence, her pink cuffs. She did state she bought some sort of lotion too.

They also got the one's from Steve's, exhibits 173, 174:


The one's in the photograph you linked proudfootz... I recall discussing those too.... they look like they are Barbie size! lol

Again though.... with those cuffs, he would be able to cuff 1 hand to 1 post, 1 foot to 1 post. What about the other 2 limbs? I have read that in the State's latest brief against BD, the State said that the bedsheets were burned and that's why there was no evidence in the room. That statement is just so ridiculous IMO Like blood doesn't soak through a sheet into a mattress? LOL Trace evidence wasn't found on the floor, not a dang shred of TH's DNA in that bedroom, or cuffs. No signs of the cuffs or rope being on the headboard either according to testimony.

 

[Safeguard]

The hand cuffs again? Really?
Th was not restrained and murdered in that trailer. (I will add IMO but you know I am ROLLING MY EYES!).

I also find it stupefying , (if predictable and sadly, rigid and closed minded), that some people are going with the Ken Krantz version as if it is gospel! We do know there are those who will say SA is guilty, even when he is exonerated. We have seen it before in the Penny b crime. What can you do... No amount of In-Your-Face evidence to the contrary will ever make the blind see...

My own theory, ( of sorts), is that TH encountered her assailant after she left ASY. It is difficult to compose a "simplistic" version of what really went down, because we were not being spoon fed carefully crafted alternatives, like we were the SA did it version.
In fact, much of the other avenues were deliberately obscured leaving gaps in ability to "see" the real picture. Hopefully KZ will shed some light on those deceptions....

What I have to work with is what seems impossible...That a crime took place on SA property. We have NO crime scene! We have the the partial remains of a victim on the property, but no evidence that a murder ever took place there. I find that excruciatingly difficult to over look. ( among other things!).

So my working theory goes something like this:

TH encounters someone after she leaves ASY, be it her ex, who is suspect for reasons that have been well gone over... (Only problem I have with him as a suspect is in all honesty, the dude strikes me as such a wimp, I cant picture him going out there with a gun.)... I have a problem with the whole gun thing, It wouldn't surprise me to learn she was shot after death actually...

But if she was shot and killed, than someone who was out hunting could've done it accidentally... Or she was deliberately killed, for reasons unknown to us, and whomever did that, fell under police surveillance, a deal was struck, SA was EASILY framed, (It did not take a massive conspiracy effort, as some like to claim.), and MCSO jumped all over that investigation to ensure secrecy and conviction of SA.

(I'm exhausted guys...I mailed out a ton of Christmas stuff...yesterday! Yikes. I so suck this season lol!

I wanted to post a more detailed, linear depiction of what I think happened, but I cant get it together just now... sucks that BD will have another Christmas in the joint though!)....

 

[dexter75]

Here is a link to the CASO report with the report of the interview with Barb. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=264

Here is a link to the report from the CASO report with an interview of owner of the store Intimate treasures and states 'two separate transactions made on the 10/09/05 that included leg cuffs and handcuffs' http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=257

I recall having a discussion about the "animal print", which came from the interview with Barb, the report states:

I informed her a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort.

The way I read that sentence is pink cuffs and something with an animal print (along with). Not that the cuffs were animal print. Barb purchased, and they took into evidence, her pink cuffs. She did state she bought some sort of lotion too.

They also got the one's from Steve's, exhibits 173, 174:
View attachment 106511View attachment 106512

The one's in the photograph you linked proudfootz... I recall discussing those too.... they look like they are Barbie size! lol

Again though.... with those cuffs, he would be able to cuff 1 hand to 1 post, 1 foot to 1 post. What about the other 2 limbs? I have read that in the State's latest brief against BD, the State said that the bedsheets were burned and that's why there was no evidence in the room. That statement is just so ridiculous IMO Like blood doesn't soak through a sheet into a mattress? LOL Trace evidence wasn't found on the floor, not a dang shred of TH's DNA in that bedroom, or cuffs. No signs of the cuffs or rope being on the headboard either according to testimony.

My thoughts exactly, Missy. By this time..we all know how DNA is everywhere, right?
Not a trace of Teresa at ALL. And those cuffs, especially the shorter ones, would they even reach from a person's wrist to a bed post???

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[missy1974]

What I have to work with is what seems impossible...That a crime took place on SA property. We have NO crime scene! We have the the partial remains of a victim on the property, but no evidence that a murder ever took place there. I find that excruciatingly difficult to over look. ( among other things!).

RSBM

THIS!!!!!!!

and... tis the season to be exhausted LOL I don't know how I make it through the holidays every year, but every year I seem to manage LOL Everyone comes here over the holidays, and it seems like this year I am so far behind because I was so busy with work *sigh* Oh well... I will put on my SuperMissy suit and will get it all done like I do every year, like all super heroes, right? LOL

Merry Christmas everyone! I hope everyone has a fun and safe holiday season

 

[Safeguard]

Right?
No blood, no sign of a struggle, no screaming, no smell, no one sees anything, at all, unusual that day...

Did SA use some kind of voodoo magic?
I don't think he's that clever. Certainly not a Shaman! LOL!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Here is a link to the CASO report with the report of the interview with Barb. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=264

Here is a link to the report from the CASO report with an interview of owner of the store Intimate treasures and states 'two separate transactions made on the 10/09/05 that included leg cuffs and handcuffs' http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=257

I recall having a discussion about the "animal print", which came from the interview with Barb, the report states:

I informed her a receipt from the store indicating a pair of pink cuffs were purchased along with an animal print of some sort.

The way I read that sentence is pink cuffs and something with an animal print (along with). Not that the cuffs were animal print. Barb purchased, and they took into evidence, her pink cuffs. She did state she bought some sort of lotion too.

They also got the one's from Steve's, exhibits 173, 174:

The one's in the photograph you linked proudfootz... I recall discussing those too.... they look like they are Barbie size! lol

Again though.... with those cuffs, he would be able to cuff 1 hand to 1 post, 1 foot to 1 post. What about the other 2 limbs? I have read that in the State's latest brief against BD, the State said that the bedsheets were burned and that's why there was no evidence in the room. That statement is just so ridiculous IMO Like blood doesn't soak through a sheet into a mattress? LOL Trace evidence wasn't found on the floor, not a dang shred of TH's DNA in that bedroom, or cuffs. No signs of the cuffs or rope being on the headboard either according to testimony.

.
One would think that there would have been a struggle to get her into the bedroom to cuff her and thus her DNA somewhere in the room..or did SA tarp the floors too. :facepalm:

 

[missy1974]

.
One would think that there would have been a struggle to get her into the bedroom to cuff her and thus her DNA somewhere in the room..or did SA tarp the floors too. :facepalm:

and there is that!

:wave: