Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

[Hapworth]

It's money in their pockets. If you don't show up, they sell the seat to someone else, and get paid twice. They hope you won't show up.

Not true. The no-show customer may have a fully refundable ticket. Many business travelers hold fully refundable tickets.

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[FelicityLemon]

Stray observation:
It's important for people to believe if something bad happens to you you must have deserved it.

He brought this on himself. He should have done this and not done that. He asked for it. He's bad - just look at his record. I would never do any of those things so I'm safe and good. Etc.

I think this is at the root of a lot of victim blaming in cases like this. People need to reassure themselves it could never happen to them.

BBM

I think it's not the best idea to make that a blanket statement.

Speaking for myself, I am usually on the side of the underdog, this specific case is different.

I judge (oh, yes I do) things based on the individual aspects of the situation. Both sides were wrong.

"Victim" in some cases is fluid.

 

[Hraefn]

BBM

You are wrong to make that a blanket statement.

Speaking for myself, I am usually on the side of the underdog, this specific case is different.

I judge (oh, yes I do) things based on the individual aspects of the situation. Both sides were wrong.

"Victim" in some cases is fluid.

Blanket statements are useless.

BBM
Isn't that a blanket statement? JK JK JK

 

[FelicityLemon]

BBM
Isn't that a blanket statement? JK JK JK

durnitdurnitdurnit you got me, lol! - I was hoping to edit my comment before someone saw it!

My apologies to bluesneakers!

 

[Hraefn]

durnitdurnitdurnit you got me, lol! - I was hoping to edit my comment before someone saw it!

My apologies to bluesneakers!

I think we needed a little comic relief in here and while yours was a blanket statement, it's probably the most credible one of them all

 

[flourish]

Stray observation:
It's important for people to believe if something bad happens to you you must have deserved it.

He brought this on himself. He should have done this and not done that. He asked for it. He's bad - just look at his record. I would never do any of those things so I'm safe and good. Etc.

I think this is at the root of a lot of victim blaming in cases like this. People need to reassure themselves it could never happen to them.

I agree. I've seen people saying they just assume the Dr was rude and threw a temper tantrum based on his alleged past. It seems some folks are really invested in the Dr having been wrong. I find the victim blaming abhorrent and frequently deliberately being obtuse.

My boss just mentioned he and his husband have cancelled an upcoming United flight to Tokyo and will be using another airline. Go flourish's boss!

 

[FelicityLemon]

My view is that some of us *cough* I, do think he was planning some sort of lawsuit "payday" if he was on the phone with lawyer before it got physical. It's possible that with all those cellphones out, someone got something that will show it or prove it was just an innocent call looking for his rights to stay on the plane. I don't know yet.

I say that because of what's come to light about his personality and his behavior. It does make a difference knowing he allegedly prefers a quick payday without working as allegedly evidenced of the illegal drug sales, trading illegal drugs for sex, his stint as professional poker player... maybe it shouldn't be admissible in a court case, but I think it helps to explain his character and behavior.

 

[KaaBoom]

[video=youtube;90jSUe_vdhM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM[/video]

United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz is being interview. His body language is really telling. He blinks a lot. He comes off someone insincere and scripted. He kept flip flopping. He has no credibility.

He is only sorry that his company is going down the toilet.

 

[KaaBoom]

Yikes, though I am far from being an attorney, I don't think this is accurate in practice. The key component could well be "and refused to leave". The people in question then became trespassers (criminal offense).

For example, I have seen law enforcement remove people from sporting venues because the person was violating the policies of the owner and refused to leave. Likewise, I have seen law enforcement remove people from church festivals after they violated the dress code policies of the property owner and refused to leave.

Therefore, I am guessing that the Chicago police are legally able to remove people from aircraft if they violate the owner's policies and refuse to leave.

You absolutely, positively, can not be trespassing on an aircraft, if you have a ticket, and are in your assigned seat, and causing no problems. If that was the case, then every single passenger on a flight, would be a trespasser. The ticket is a contract, that gives you the right to be in that seat, on that flight.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

My view is that some of us *cough* I, do think he was planning some sort of lawsuit "payday" if he was on the phone with lawyer before it got physical. It's possible that with all those cellphones out, someone got something that will show it or prove it was just an innocent call looking for his rights to stay on the plane. I don't know yet.

I say that because of what's come to light about his personality and his behavior. It does make a difference knowing he allegedly prefers a quick payday without working as allegedly evidenced of the illegal drug sales, trading illegal drugs for sex, his stint as professional poker player... maybe it shouldn't be admissible in a court case, but I think it helps to explain his character and behavior.

I thought it was odd that he was on the phone with his lawyer before things escalated. But after skimming those 130 pages or so linked up thread I can see where he might have his attorney on speed dial.

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM

I think it's not the best idea to make that a blanket statement.

Speaking for myself, I am usually on the side of the underdog, this specific case is different.

I judge (oh, yes I do) things based on the individual aspects of the situation. Both sides were wrong.

"Victim" in some cases is fluid.

He is a victim and I stand behind what I said. People are invested in making him the bad guy and reassuring themselves they are better and therefore safe. It absolutely is judgmental, void of compassion and empathy. But I recognize why they need to do it.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree. I've seen people saying they just assume the Dr was rude and threw a temper tantrum based on his alleged past. It seems some folks are really invested in the Dr having been wrong. I find the victim blaming abhorrent and frequently deliberately being obtuse.

My boss just mentioned he and his husband have cancelled an upcoming United flight to Tokyo and will be using another airline. Go flourish's boss!

Yay flourish's boss!

*insert hi5 smilie I can't find on my phone*

 

[Hapworth]

Cash compensation may have a max limit, but airlines have no limit regarding the amount of travel vouchers they can offer their customers.

In my experience, airlines have never mentioned cash compensation- they always offered travel vouchers.

Cash Compensation does indeed have a limit per the D.O.T. It is not cash per se but a check. Those who are Involuntary Denied boarding ( holding a reservation but NOT assigned a specific seat due to NO volunteers have accepted the offer) will be issued a check and rebooked on the next available flight. The Involuntary check amount does have a max per the D.O.T. depending on the next available flights arrival time: 2-4 hrs or greater than 4 hrs.
Hope this helps. And No you can not issue as many dollor amount vouchers as you feel like to a customer on a specific flight number. Many customers do in fact "roll over" from one flight to the next as Volunteers and thus receive many travel vouchers over the many flights they have volunteered.



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[Bently]

At the very least this addresses the issue of transparency and non-transparency on how people get kicked off Airline flights.(and others). More than once, I volunteered to deplane due to perks offered (on another airline).

Offering compensation to justify somebody to get out of their seat and leave, should be, and is in their budgeting; a specific line item associated with cost of doing business.

It is analogous to companies putting aside money for warranties, it is within their budget. A cost of failure/cost of business which is budgeted for.

Yes, they have the legal right to do such, but what cost does it have if the understanding of general public and expectation are vastly different from the airline performance. As we now know, it cost Millions. I get the contact..but is not congruent with how the general public expects if it happens .

I don't care who got drug off and their background... it seems they should have offered more compensation to all... and their seated customers have the opportunity to take the offer and make the decision to leave.

How many seats were on this plane? And it appears it wasn't enough compensation to deplane for ANY of them..

Again :moo: it is a cost of doing business to pay for a customer to deplane. Obviously they needed to get compensation to where it will get people off the plane and get the standby flight attendants and pilots that they want to get on the plane.

Its a monetary business *algorithim*.. Imho

This whole situation is loudacrious.
I hope all airlines are watching and do research on which offerings are most accepted to deplane.

Mine that I accepted at least three times was a voucher to go ANYWHERE the airline went round trip. It seemed a great value to me, but nowhere was near the cost to the airline.

Stingy imho their last offer

 

[jadejazzkayla]

(...sbm)...And No you can not issue as many dollor amount vouchers as you feel like to a customer on a specific flight number.
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I'm not quite sure I'm understanding your post.

I'm stating an airline can offer any amount of non-cash compensation they choose.

Is your post stating the company has a compensation legal limit? If so, don't believe it is true.

 

[drjones]

Cash Compensation does indeed have a limit per the D.O.T. It is not cash per se but a check. Those who are Involuntary Denied boarding ( holding a reservation but NOT assigned a specific seat due to NO volunteers have accepted the offer) will be issued a check and rebooked on the next available flight. The Involuntary check amount does have a max per the D.O.T. depending on the next available flights arrival time: 2-4 hrs or greater than 4 hrs.
Hope this helps. And No you can not issue as many dollor amount vouchers as you feel like to a customer on a specific flight number. Many customers do in fact "roll over" from one flight to the next as Volunteers and thus receive many travel vouchers over the many flights they have volunteered.



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people keep claiming this but i cant find anything that addresses it directly - other than just quoting the law/policy (i have seen it) can you post proof that it is in fact a hard cap on what airlines are legally allowed to offer and not just a liability limit? thanks..

 

[drjones]

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

"Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip."

so, as we discussed earlier, airlines can offer more in compensation, they just may be unwilling to do so at the gates or on the flight because they are not legally required to, but until someone shows me something that says they are legally forbidden from offering more on the spot i find it hard to believe.

 

[Hapworth]

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding your post.

I'm stating an airline can offer any amount of non-cash compensation they choose.

Is your post stating the company has a compensation legal limit? If so, don't believe it is true.

Do you mean Hotel or Meal Vouchers? Yes..they probably can depending on hotel availability. Some cities with a large Convention base may not have hotels to offer (no availability) nor cities being impacted by a weather event.
I misunderstood. I thought you were implying I could issue Mr.Xxxx, multiple Travel Vouchers ( good for Air Travel only) for volunteering on a Specific flight. I would not be able to issue multiple Travel Vouchers. Food and perhaps maybe hotel, depending on availability. As I said before...volunteers many times roll over to subsequent flights and continue to volunteer their seat numbers for air travel vouchers. This would be an example of receiving large amounts of travel vouchers over SEVERAL flights but not from one specific flight.






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[PaperDoll]

Thats true, but they are clearly laying the ground for some sort of emotional distress angle to the lawsuit too, with all the talk about Dr Dao being shaken and in shock, not to mention the bit about this incident being more distressing then his escape from Vietnam.

BBM: Dr. Dao is taking this a bit too far :dramaqueen:

 

[human]

Wecan thank many American voters for this. Remember deregulation? The airline industry was deregulated. Here we are with the results.