Man in Coma 'heard everything'

[LinasK]

even though it has been proven that she could have NEVER recovered. Sad.

No, this has NOT been proven! Quite the opposite, it has been proven to me beyond a doubt that Terri would have benefitted from Speech Therapy and most likely could have been completely weaned off a feeding tube if it weren't for the suspicious motives of her cheating husband!!!

 

[Details]

I have ascertained that Terri could track with her eyes, follow simple commands, squeeze hands to indicate yes and no responses, vocalize on command, and swallow her saliva. All of this indicates good rehab potential and she should have been given at least trial therapy in the recent past. No therapy or tests prior to 6 months ago were valid. People can make tremendous spontaneous improvements in brain function even years post- onset. I've worked with those very patients and seen the improvement firsthand years post onset!

I'm sorry, but that was not real, that was a highly edited video tape, not something that any credible doctor found. And people cannot spontaneously regenerate a liquified brain. Gone is gone - brain doesn't grow back. You can transfer functions - but only if you have some brain to transfer them to.

The neutral doctor, the one appointed by the judge to represent Terri tried everything to get her to respond, including watching her interact with her family. He saw no such thing. Swallowing saliva is a basic instinct - part of that brain stem that was all Terri had left. Swallowing when there is food is a different part of the brain, and that brain was liquified. The family also said she followed things with her eyes - when the autopsy confirmed what the scans had shown to be likely - that she was completely blind.

And my grandfather cannot swallow still. Not for the same reason as Terri - he does have a complete brain - but the parts of the brain that control saliva swallowing and food swallowing are two different parts of the brain. Terri fit PVS perfectly, and the autopsy showed her a classic case - brainstem alive, everything else gone. It's a sad disease, the body keeps doing some things, but the mind is completely and permanently gone.

 

[reb]

<Quite the opposite, it has been proven to me beyond a doubt that Terri would have benefitted from Speech Therapy and most likely could have been completely weaned off a feeding tube>

oh, really....? how so, exactly....?

 

[Eagle1]

"I'm fully qualified to assess Terri's ....... F.Y.I., the physicians rely on the therapists judgement as to whether or not to authorize orders for therapy."

LINASK, would they have also removed the "port" along with the tube, and SHOULD they have used anesthetic? Wasn't that probably what was hurting, besides the realization she obviously had about her fate? We are blessed to have ONE professional on this subject. One and only one, Details. That's life. She's qualified.

My own amateur observation is that the feeding tube was just to save the staff some time and effort, so they wouldn't have to sit for probably half an hour hand-feeding Terri. They'd fed her pudding and jello before the under-suspicion cheating husband found out, could have fed her a soft diet, maybe even solids. For all we will ever know, maybe she could even have chewed!

I still have some of the honest, reputable doctors' defenses of Terri bookmarked, including the bone scan, and btw, Terri wasn't blind until the starvation. When my blood sugar gets too low, I have serious vision problems. (I'm diabetic, have a couple of glucose-testing meters, have to watch it.) She always tracked with her eyes, recognized people who came into the room and lit up or, sometimes, turned away, according to one Dr who examined her for, if I remember correctly, more than 12 hours and was very open about it.

The relevant parts of video's were not edited out. Seeing is believing. Terri was very responsive, knew what was happening when they removed the feeding tube and was crying. I heard and saw her say No whenever her dad asked her what was hurting, was it her leg, and I forget what else he must have been trying to distract her to.

Sorry about someone's grandfather but that has nothing whatsoever to do with Terri. All of us sometimes accidentally swallow our saliva down the wrong way, taking a breath when automatic swallowing has already started, need someone to whack us on the back and give us a drink of water, and if we were bedridden, having been starved for nearly 2 wks, our reflexes might be screwed up enough that we'd get pneumonia from it. It's a wonder she didn't get a lot of other ailments, much sooner. They don't even execute criminals by such a cruel and unusual method. (Newborns who're defective, maybe, and that's another deplorable societal condition, we just don't hear much about, but off-subject, sorry. Never mind.)

Some will refuse to acknowledge our expert, or even God, so their targets are in good company. Seems to be just some peoples' personality tendencies to make assumptions that they know it all in every field.

Topix.net has reported that all the death dealers, incl the legally-blind judge, have been honoring each other, a little mutual admiration society. I'm not one of those spooky long-robe cartoon characters carrying a sign "The End is Near", but imo, do they ever have a big surprise coming! Whether or not they ever have to actually face the martyr Terri.

 

[Hbgchick]

I have ascertained that Terri could track with her eyes, follow simple commands, squeeze hands to indicate yes and no responses, vocalize on command, and swallow her saliva. All of this indicates good rehab potential and she should have been given at least trial therapy in the recent past. No therapy or tests prior to 6 months ago were valid. People can make tremendous spontaneous improvements in brain function even years post- onset. I've worked with those very patients and seen the improvement firsthand years post onset!

Maybe I should be more clear...HOW have you "ascertained" this information? OTHER than what has been shared in the media?

 

[Hbgchick]

And frankly, Details Grandfather has as much to do with "Terri" (love how everyone talks like they know her) as the fellow who awakened from the coma who this thread was supposed to be about. If you can somehow turn this into Schaivo Central again from that - then Details can detail ('scuse the pun) his/her Grandad's experience all he/she wants, IMO.

 

[LinasK]

And frankly, Details Grandfather has as much to do with "Terri" (love how everyone talks like they know her) as the fellow who awakened from the coma who this thread was supposed to be about. If you can somehow turn this into Schaivo Central again from that - then Details can detail ('scuse the pun) his/her Grandad's experience all he/she wants, IMO.

The point that poster was making is that the experience of this man in the coma shows that Terri was given up upon too soon. Terri was not PVS, she had consciousness. It doesn't appear that Details's grandfather was given up upon...

 

[Details]

The point that poster was making is that the experience of this man in the coma shows that Terri was given up upon too soon. Terri was not PVS, she had consciousness. It doesn't appear that Details's grandfather was given up upon...

He was in a coma, not PVS, a week or so, not years. And Terri did not have consciousness - any more than a goldfish can understand directions.

The point I was making with my grandfather was that swallowing saliva is a completely different matter than swallowing food - even in my grandfather's case where his brain is intact, he is awake, talking, completely normal - no brain damage. And he can swallow saliva just fine, but cannot swallow food without aspirating enough to cause pnuemonia again. Just like Terri had from those stupid nurses who thought they knew better than the doctor and fed her.

 

[Hbgchick]

The point that poster was making is that the experience of this man in the coma shows that Terri was given up upon too soon. Terri was not PVS, she had consciousness. It doesn't appear that Details's grandfather was given up upon...

Thanks for addressing THIS post LinasK, but you still have not answered HOW, in your qualified, medical opinion, have you

"ascertained that Terri could track with her eyes, follow simple commands, squeeze hands to indicate yes and no responses, vocalize on command, and swallow her saliva"?

OTHER than what has been presented in the media?

Did you examine Terri Schaivo personally? Confer with her physicians?

 

[WhiteWolf]

An Italian man has emerged from a two-year-long coma claiming he retained his powers of hearing and comprehension throughout his illness, his family say. Salvatore Crisafulli, 38, is recovering at home after years spent in what doctors had termed a "near-dead" state.

He is quoted as saying that his "miraculous" recovery proves euthanasia cannot be justified for coma patients.


According to Italian media, Mr Crisafulli claims to have overheard doctors saying he was not conscious.

"I understood everything and I cried in desperation," he said.

Mr Crisafulli has recovered the power of speech and recollection, his brother Pietro told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

"I don't expect that he will be like he was, but it's already a miracle," he was quoted as saying.

"And to think that some doctors said that it was all useless and that he would be dead in three, four months."

Pietro Crisafulli compared his brother to Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged US woman who died earlier this year amid a storm of controversy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4313118.stm

I don't see where Terri's condition was anything like the man in the above article. I sympathise with her parents, and anyone who has ever had a loved one with the same condition who doesn't believe in pulling the plug for their own ethical or religeous reasons. That's all I have to say about Terri.

I'm more interested in the "near death" state of conciousness for a prolonged period of time. I know people who have died and been revived who report the same type of conciousness as the Italian man, but obviously not for two years or longer. I wonder where he was (mind) while he was unconcious? I also wonder if he could feel anything (I didn't see that mentioned in the article) or if he had a total disconnect between his body and mind?

 

[Hbgchick]

I don't see where Terri's condition was anything like the man in the above article. I sympathise with her parents, and anyone who has ever had a loved one with the same condition who doesn't believe in pulling the plug for their own ethical or religeous reasons. That's all I have to say about Terri.

Quite right, it wasn't.

 

[Details]

I don't see where Terri's condition was anything like the man in the above article. I sympathise with her parents, and anyone who has ever had a loved one with the same condition who doesn't believe in pulling the plug for their own ethical or religeous reasons. That's all I have to say about Terri.

I'm more interested in the "near death" state of conciousness for a prolonged period of time. I know people who have died and been revived who report the same type of conciousness as the Italian man, but obviously not for two years or longer. I wonder where he was (mind) while he was unconcious? I also wonder if he could feel anything (I didn't see that mentioned in the article) or if he had a total disconnect between his body and mind?

Yep, his condition was nothing like hers.

I'm interested in that too - in particular, I'd be curious about what he heard, to establish if he really heard anything, or if he was in a bit of a dream state, and his mind made up what he'd expect to hear (so far what has been said he heard is pretty typical). I just wonder if sometime during the coma, something distinctive was said, and he remembers that. The story doesn't say.

Seems quite possible he did hear, but also quite possible he had a bit of a dream state when he was starting to come out of it, and during that his subconscious made up the whole thing. Just going on my own experience - when I am really sleepy, I'll have this long, involved dream that involves a beeping sound at the end. In reality, it's my subconscious making up a long dream to explain the beeping of my alarm clock, in an instant. To me it feels like I've been having this dream for half an hour at the least, but in reality it all happened in a second. I've had that same type of thing happen with earthquakes at night - a dream that leads up to some shaking around, then I wake up to the earthquake. It's amazing what the mind can do.