Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

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  • #441
Jeana (DP) said:
Since I went to the training WITH HIM I guess I do know. I suggest you adopt a more pleasant tone. We don't allow attacks on this forum. You may consider this your first warning.
im not attacking you...LMAO

all i am asking you is this...SINCE you went with your family on these training quests...then maybe you SHOULD know what type of training your dog recieved...you obviously have no clue..and dont be upset about that either..and thats my point...MOST have no clue on how ANY dog can react to anything...ALSO MANY of you have no clue on the APBT temperament...

again, if you knew what is a TT test, then you can see for yourself on THEIR WEBSITE ATTS.ORG the APBT ranks high on having a GOOD temperament...

if you cant see that, then i dont know what else to tell you...lol

again, if you dont know what type of training your dog recieved...or how to properly train ANY breed of dog, how or why should anybody take your beliefs into consideration? "I" have been around this breed for some time and i do train and work with my dogs...so i do believe i am more qualified than you to make such comments.
 
  • #442
Jeana (DP) said:
Curly sees what Curly wants to see, that's why. Now we're talking cars and airplanes. :confused: :confused: :confused: Can't be compared, imo. Cars and airplanes don't have brains. The brains on the pits tell them to kill something and they're going to try to do it until they're killed. That's pretty straight forward, IMO.
You missed the whole point. Go back to the plane analogy and fill in any instance of the word plane with "widget". The point is using the media gives you a skewed view.

Go back to the car analogy and fill in "widget 1" for Ford, "widget 2" for toyota and so on. I was trying to show what can be learned from the statistics (and what the statistics do not show that might account for the differences).
 
  • #443
Please don't feed this troll :snooty:


Juan Martinez said:
im not attacking you...LMAO

all i am asking you is this...SINCE you went with your family on these training quests...then maybe you SHOULD know what type of training your dog recieved...you obviously have no clue..and dont be upset about that either..and thats my point...MOST have no clue on how ANY dog can react to anything...ALSO MANY of you have no clue on the APBT temperament...

again, if you knew what is a TT test, then you can see for yourself on THEIR WEBSITE ATTS.ORG the APBT ranks high on having a GOOD temperament...

if you cant see that, then i dont know what else to tell you...lol

again, if you dont know what type of training your dog recieved...or how to properly train ANY breed of dog, how or why should anybody take your beliefs into consideration? "I" have been around this breed for some time and i do train and work with my dogs...so i do believe i am more qualified than you to make such comments.
 
  • #444
amandab said:
Please don't feed this troll :snooty:
oh my god???im a troll because i have GOOD credibility???? are you serious??

maybe if i came on here and told you the earth was flat and the sky is falling, then i would have great credibility...

basicly when you guys make comments like "pit bulls have locking jaws" or "they can snap at any time" is very simular to what was said about the sky is falling...

but if you want to be bias about the whole situation...then maybe you shouldnt be getting into such debates without getting the proper information.
 
  • #445
Jeana (DP) said:
Since I went to the training WITH HIM I guess I do know. I suggest you adopt a more pleasant tone. We don't allow attacks on this forum. You may consider this your first warning.
i still dont know why its taking you so long to respond with your level one training....just admit it...you were wrong and you basicly dont have much knowledge about the american pit bull terrier.

and if i came off in a threatening mannor...sorry..but i am presenting you with TRUE facts...not myths. and by all means i didnt want to scare you....

see for yourself....

ATTS.ORG
 
  • #446
Juan Martinez said:
its funny to see people say they would own a GSD over a APBT anyday...but what they dont realize is that the GSD has a harder bite than the APBT...and not to mention, the GSD has been for many many many years bred for human aggression...

BUT yet....you would trust that dog around your children over the APBT...very interesting...LOVE the theories on this topic...i must say, you guys have done a tons of great research..>LMAO

i guess i know where to find the experts on dogs...NOT

oh just in case the experts dont know what a GSD is..its a german shepherd.
GSD are highly trainable, any human aggression is used because they have JOBS that require them to attack on COMMAND. Not just snap at any time. Don't see pits being used as police dogs, way too unreliable, and imagine the lawsuits.
 
  • #447
Details said:
85% - no. 21% of all deaths are pit bulls - basic math says 85% cannot be from other dogs. Aussiegran's numbers say higher - more than half from pit bulls and rotweilers combined.

It's not just one type of plane that crashes - it's one type of plane that crashes most often. Then there's the other planes who fly a very strong majority of all of the flights, and are responsible for a minority of the crashes.

Statistics - it's simple, nothing but per capita means anything. So if you have plane type A responsible for 85% of all crashes, and plane type B responsible for the other 15% - that is meaningless. But when you know that plane type A does 99% of all flights, and plane type B does 1% of all flights - then you know that plane type B is 1500% more likely to crash!
From your study:
21% of 431 deaths = 91 deaths from pit bulls over the 36 year period from 1965 to 2001

91 divided by 36 years = 2.5 pit bull deaths per year on average (between 1965-2001).

The average number of dog death per year (more up to date than the 2001 study) is 17.

So use your basic math skills and tell me what percent 2.5 is of 17. Now figure out what is left. (hint 85.3%).

If you want to use the 2001 study for the number of total deaths per year fine. That is 431 deaths divided by 36 years. That is just under 12 deaths per year. Look at that, we just lowered the number of deaths from dogs by 5 and we didn't have to ban anything.
 
  • #448
Juan Martinez said:
did you know the GSD was also going to be banned in the late 70's? becuae they had numerouse attacks of that specific breed all over the USA?..oh wait...that couldnt be...because your credibility is sooo pristine...LMAO

again, go to atts.org THAT website HAS statistics to PROVE YOU WRONG. do you even know what is TT?

oh wait..you and jeana are dog experts...and she had her dog trained at level one...LMAO oh man i am tearing from the stupidity that is being displayed here...LMAO

Dot, is that you??? :rolleyes:
 
  • #449
Jeana (DP) said:
Since I went to the training WITH HIM I guess I do know. I suggest you adopt a more pleasant tone. We don't allow attacks on this forum. You may consider this your first warning.
Did you warn yourself for telling me to "back the hell up"?
 
  • #450
Jules said:
Dot, is that you??? :rolleyes:
I was wondering the same thing!

:blowkiss: :woohoo:
 
  • #451
Juan Martinez said:
AGAIN...you guys are WRONG....go to the ATTS website...that is where THEY TEST DOGS TEMPERAMENTS...you will see the APBT "pit bull" has a better temperament then the average saint bernard...

the website is atts.org

i cant believe you guys dont go to a source for your information..but would rather get FALSE information off the net.

curlytone...i think they just dont want to actually do proper research...they would rather just do what comes natural, believe the hype...lol

i also found it amusing when i went to a CGC class with my APBT...the old lady that was teaching the class had me stand out in front of the class and said "THIS AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER HAS A BETTER TEMPERAMENT THAN ANY ONE OF YOUR DOGS STANDING HERE TODAY" i was SHOCKED, but however, this woman has done her research and trains dogs for a living, so she had to do proper research.

does anybody here even go to OB classes? do any of your dogs pass CGC tests? or how about TT tests?
I think that it just gives people comfort to have something to point at and something that they think is easy to get rid of. It is much scarier to realize that the problem is not cut and dry and that their lab might be considered a target if it is vicious.
 
  • #452
SadieMae said:
GSD are highly trainable, any human aggression is used because they have JOBS that require them to attack on COMMAND. Not just snap at any time. Don't see pits being used as police dogs, way too unreliable, and imagine the lawsuits.
GSD and the APBT were both bred for TOTALLY DIFFERENT uses...

BUT to PROVE you wrong once more..there ARE APBT's being trained today in shutzhund and in ringsport..do you know what that is? that is beyond PP (personal protection) the APBT is very much so trainable...

the reason WHY the APBT was never used, its because they were never bred for those specific tasks...but CAN BE TRAINED TO..and there is living PROOF.

the GSD was originally a herding dog, but then MAN decided to use them for other purposes...which is now seen in todays world...

now for the APBT..its original purpose was for bull baiting, after that they actually used the APBT for many things, the APBT's talents did not go unoticed by farmers and ranchers who used the APBT for protection and as catch dogs for semi wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions.

today these dogs are still used in competitions such as weightpulls, shutzhund, ring sport, obediance, tracking, therapy dogs, conformation events..you name it, they have competed and succeeded with great success.. YOU dont notice these things because you dont OWN such a breed, nor do you commit your time to be active in such events, so of course through out your life time, it will be unnoticed.
 
  • #453
Jeana (DP) said:
If they don't exist, they don't get abused and neglected.
Great solution. So should we get rid of kids so that they can't be abused and neglected?
 
  • #454
SadieMae said:
You are so correct. The number of 2.2 only goes up to reports since 1998. Just for deaths caused by Pit Bulls in the year 2005 I found these accounts. And these are not all of them!!!! Their were so many other incidents of people and their animals being attacked.

Curly...you need to just quit now. Your agument based on those old numbers is no good.. Just those story's put the number at 7 for the year, 3 times more than 7 years ago. There IS a reason to ban these dogs!!!


70 year old woman killed Feb 2005
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1338205/posts

The story of the 12 year old boy...killed by family pet June 2005
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1338205/posts

14 month old girl...killed by family pet
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9967524

Toddler girl...by family pet May 2005
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1405721/posts

8 month old boy killed...by family pet July 2005
http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2046486

13 month old boy killed...by family pet November 2005
http://www.wlky.com/news/5267310/detail.html

82 year old woman and pet Shitzu killed...family pets April 2005 March
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20050408-103426-3410r.htm

And most those owners would consider themselves, "responsible" PB owners.
Juan and Curly, show us where ANY other single breed has KILLED more than 7 people this year. Find me the stories, they aren't out there. Dont' tell me they don't get reported because it's not news unless a pit kills. You two are so into statistics as fact, then find some recent ones. the CDC study is outdated by 7 years, so your agument they're responsible for 2.5 deaths a year might have been but that's history. It' different now.

I won't take a chance being around that breed, and if one ever shows up on my property it automatically be shot.
 
  • #455
Juan Martinez said:
im not attacking you...LMAO

all i am asking you is this...SINCE you went with your family on these training quests...then maybe you SHOULD know what type of training your dog recieved...you obviously have no clue..and dont be upset about that either..and thats my point...MOST have no clue on how ANY dog can react to anything...ALSO MANY of you have no clue on the APBT temperament...

again, if you knew what is a TT test, then you can see for yourself on THEIR WEBSITE ATTS.ORG the APBT ranks high on having a GOOD temperament...

if you cant see that, then i dont know what else to tell you...lol

again, if you dont know what type of training your dog recieved...or how to properly train ANY breed of dog, how or why should anybody take your beliefs into consideration? "I" have been around this breed for some time and i do train and work with my dogs...so i do believe i am more qualified than you to make such comments.

OMG!!!!!!! :doh: We started at about three months old doing basic obedience training and then went into the drives/prey training/stick training and to bite and hold, fight, blah, blah, blah. My dog has never had guns fired above his head, can't sniff out drugs or find lost children (well maybe), but he's awesome.

Wanna get back on the topic of this thread now? Why do you suppose Pit Bulls are not trained for anything excepting fighting one another? I think its because they're not good for anything else.
 
  • #456
Jeana (DP) said:
FROM YOUR LINK:

According to the shelters surveyed, a third do not adopt pit bulls out-some because it is against the law to have them in their communities, and others are concerned where the dogs will ultimately end up. Sadly, in these cases, the dogs are euthanized.


There you go! Post after post after post after post proving our point for us. Thanks!
Doesn't prove your point at all, it proves mine, but I am glad you read it.

Also from this statement
"In recent years, pit bulls have gained more than just a foothold in the public awareness. Unscrupulous breeding and negative media attention have resulted in many apartment complexes, neighborhoods and even counties imposing bans on the breed, citing them as "inherently dangerous" to the public.
But did you know that pit bulls, despite the fact that they were originally bred to fight with each other, were also bred to be trustworthy and friendly to people? These dogs actually earned the nickname "nursemaid's dog," because they were so reliable with young children.

Today, however, the breed often attracts the worst kind of dog owners--those who are only interested in them for fighting or protection. It's a shame what has happened to this loyal and affectionate breed-but as the pit bull population has increased so rapidly, shelters are now struggling to deal with an overflow of image-plagued, hard-to-place dogs. And despite its illegality, people are still training and breeding pit bulls to participate in dog fights in cities and towns across the country.

History of the Breed
Pit bulls are descendants of the original English bull-baiting dog-dogs who were bred to attack bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. They were taught to hang on without releasing their grip, until they were exhausted from fighting and from loss of blood. Although animal baiting was banned in the 1800s, people decided to try fighting their dogs against each other instead.

As the "sport" of dog fighting developed, enthusiasts bred a lighter, more athletic canine. These dogs made their way to North America, the ancestors of today's pit bulls. The problems started when these dogs gained the attention of people looking for a macho dog-and to meet their demands, unscrupulous and uncaring breeders are producing puppies that are not only aggressive to other dogs, but to people, too.

In the Fighting Ring...
Although illegal in all 50 states, organized dog fights still secretly take place in many parts of the country. In some urban areas especially, dog fighters have formed a strong subculture. Dogs who fight are conditioned to never give up when they are fighting, even if it means that they will be badly hurt or even killed. Other species are victims of dog fights, too-it's not uncommon for trainers to teach their dogs to fight using smaller animals such as cats and rabbits as bait.

While some might typify dog fighting as a symptom of urban decay, not every dog fighter is economically disadvantaged. Participants and promoters come from every community and background. Licensed veterinarians are often well paid to care for dogs at fights, and audiences may include lawyers, judges and teachers.

Unfortunately, a new element has been introduced to the world of dog fighting in the past two decades. Fights have become informal, street corner and playground activities. Stripped of the rules and formality of the traditional pit fight, these spontaneous events are triggered by insults and turf invasions-or even the simple taunt, "My dog can kill your dog." Many of these participants lack even a semblance of respect for the animals, forcing them to train wearing heavy chains and picking street fights in which the dogs could get seriously hurt.

At the Shelters...
In March 2000, the ASPCA asked representative U.S. shelters about their experiences with pit bulls. Thirty-five percent take in at least one pit bull a day, and in one out of four shelters, pits and pit mixes make up more than 20 percent of the shelter dog population. New York, Chicago, Boston, Phoenix and Honolulu each saw 3,000 to 7,500 pits turned in during the previous year. One shelter staffer recounted hundreds of abuse cases that came through their doors-pit bulls who had been burned, beaten, and fought with.

According to the shelters surveyed, a third do not adopt pit bulls out-some because it is against the law to have them in their communities, and others are concerned where the dogs will ultimately end up. Sadly, in these cases, the dogs are euthanized."
 
  • #457
curlytone said:
I think that it just gives people comfort to have something to point at and something that they think is easy to get rid of. It is much scarier to realize that the problem is not cut and dry and that their lab might be considered a target if it is vicious.
i agree...its easy to find any solution...but to find the RIGHT solution is not an easy task...but just like history, its easier to get rid of anything instead of fixing anything...

sooner or later it all catches up...it doesnt effect them now, but what they dont know...the GSD is in fact on the dangerous dog list...so as they think its a great family pet...when i am sure its 100% true..the rest of the public will think other wise...and believe it or not...i KNOW my APBT's AKA pit bulls are excellent family pets.....just as good or if not better than any other breed of animal.
 
  • #458
curlytone said:
Great solution. So should we get rid of kids so that they can't be abused and neglected?


Welll Curly, once again you're comparing apples and oranges. Kids are not on this earth solely to kill and be killed. Can't say that about Pit Bulls.
 
  • #459
SadieMae said:
Juan and Curly, show us where ANY other single breed has KILLED more than 7 people this year. Find me the stories, they aren't out there. Dont' tell me they don't get reported because it's not news unless a pit kills. You two are so into statistics as fact, then find some recent ones. the CDC study is outdated by 7 years, so your agument they're responsible for 2.5 deaths a year might have been but that's history. It' different now.

I won't take a chance being around that breed, and if one ever shows up on my property it automatically be shot.


They just can't Sadie. Luckily, no one in my area has one. It would not be welcome near my house.
 
  • #460
Jeana (DP) said:
OMG!!!!!!! :doh: We started at about three months old doing basic obedience training and then went into the drives/prey training/stick training and to bite and hold, fight, blah, blah, blah. My dog has never had guns fired above his head, can't sniff out drugs or find lost children (well maybe), but he's awesome.

Wanna get back on the topic of this thread now? Why do you suppose Pit Bulls are not trained for anything excepting fighting one another? I think its because they're not good for anything else.
and THAT is level one training???? i think you need to surf the net some more and try and figure out what are the different modes of training...especially in personal protection...LMAO

and again, read my other posts...they HAVE been trained in many different venues....you just failed to see it.

so at three months old you went into basic OB...then went right into prey drive mode?? oh boy....again...when you search in google for training dogs...put in personal protection..and then look into what ages they are preferred to even start such training...and then search for shutzhund...and then hit ring sport...

man i never knew you did bite and holds at level one of whatever you are talking about....is this some new type of training? do you know what tracking is?
 
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