Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

[curlytone]

What about all of the attacks mentioned in the link above? None of those 21% pitt bulls from that article were "trained" fighting dogs. They were pets. Your argument makes no sense to me Curly. I think you don't want to see what is so obvious. I've lived with trained police K-9s and there's no way any of them would attack another dog or person unprovoked the way pitts do.

Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit bulls sweeping the nation killing everyone in sight. That is an average of 2.5 people per year. There are 295,734,134 people in the US. That risk is miniscule. PLUS it says "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS", they don't define pit bull type. None of the other breeds have an AND in there. Look at the pit bull ID link in my first post. There are 25 breeds in there that look similar (some identical) to pit bulls.

 

[Details]

That stat excludes those who survived the pitbull attack - it's not just the deaths, it's the people horribly maimed by pitbulls. It's an unnecessary risk. Spay and neuter every pitbull, and in a generation, they won't be a problem anymore.

 

[forthekids]

"What about all of the attacks mentioned in the link above? None of those 21% pitt bulls from that article were "trained" fighting dogs. They were pets. Your argument makes no sense to me Curly. I think you don't want to see what is so obvious. I've lived with trained police K-9s and there's no way any of them would attack another dog or person unprovoked the way pitts do."

Jeana:
If you read what curly had written in his first posting he stated,
"The owner’s dog has just hurt or killed someone. Police officers and reporters are asking about the dog. How likely is it that the owner is going to say, “Oh yeah, Rex has always been vicious. In fact, it was just a matter of time until this was going to happen. What, with all that illegal fighting that I’ve been training him for, I am surprised that this was his first kill.”? Of course they are going to say that the dog was always nice, if the owner has any chance of avoiding criminal charges."
I agree that the likihood of someone stating that their 'pet' is a fighting dog is highly unlikely.
Also I don't understand your argument or what is so obvious. You say you've lived with highly trained police dogs. Doesn't that say it all? They've been highly trained. Do you know that there are highly trained pit bulls that are part of Search and Rescue groups for 9-1-1? I'm sure the same statement would be true about them or any other highly trained dog. I guess I just don't understand your connection here.

Also everyone needs to keep in mind that 21% of and ave. of 20 deaths by all dog breeds isn't a huge number. I am really sorry that some of you have had really bad experiences with these these dogs, but for me personally, I've had a very scary situation as a child from a much smaller that did some damage to my face. I don't remeber the breed, but it was only about 10lbs. with very long hair.

 

[curlytone]

I went to obedience class because I feel it is part of being a responsible owner, but my insurance did not require it. I would not be opposed if the did; I think they should for all breeds.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I went to obedience class because I feel it is part of being a responsible owner, but my insurance did not require it. I would not be opposed if the did; I think they should for all breeds.

Unless you called your insurance company and told them you were getting a pitt bull, you can't be sure they require it. If your dog attacks someone and they sue you, you'll find out soon enough if you're covered or not. My homeowners' policy from USAA wouldn't cover a pitt bull PERIOD and would only cover my GSD with certification of training.

 

[forthekids]

Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit bulls sweeping the nation killing everyone in sight. That is an average of 2.5 people per year. There are 295,734,134 people in the US. That risk is miniscule. PLUS it says "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS", they don't define pit bull type. None of the other breeds have an AND in there. Look at the pit bull ID link in my first post. There are 25 breeds in there that look similar (some identical) to pit bulls.

In addition to the above post:
“Pit Bull type” dogs are the highest in fatal attacks but that in itself encompasses like 15 separate breeds, it is almost like saying the "hound dog" so that is blood hound, basset hound...etc. The stats are not accurate with Pit Bulls because they lump so many distinctly different breeds into one category. This ties into that whole find the Pit Bull test that we have all seen.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit bulls sweeping the nation killing everyone in sight. That is an average of 2.5 people per year. There are 295,734,134 people in the US. That risk is miniscule. PLUS it says "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS", they don't define pit bull type. None of the other breeds have an AND in there. Look at the pit bull ID link in my first post. There are 25 breeds in there that look similar (some identical) to pit bulls.

I wonder what the statistics would be if they covered all of the attacks by pitt bulls through 2005? It seems that as the number of reported attacks just in the last years that I've been here on Websleuths is alarming.

 

[curlytone]

That stat is deaths resulting from dogs. The stat says that 21% of the 431 deaths in the 36 year period from 1965-2001 are from "pit bull and pit bull type dogs". That is an average of 2.5 pit bull realated deaths per year. What other dog breed in the list includes what basically amounts to "anything that looks like breed X"? Only pit bulls. The stat excludes anyone who walked away. IF, as people are saying, pit bulls can't help but attack and can't help but kill when they attack, how do they only kill 2.5 people per year? Are there only 3 in the U.S.?

 

[curlytone]

I've known a loving and sweet pitbull - nice, wonderful dog - my big sister's family dog. Doesn't change the facts, doesn't change the genes, doesn't change the possibilities. They are more prone to be agressive. It's in the genes. When they snap, they go for the kill and people die. Even a good, loving, sweet, family pet pitbull can and does snap.

I also know a pedophile who seems to not be attacking and killing children. That doesn't change my point of view about the danger of pedophiles.

You are saying every dog in a breed is a killer. That is not the same as every pedophile is dangerous. The corollary would be that every person is a pedophile or that every killer pit bull is a killer.

 

[curlytone]

Unless you called your insurance company and told them you were getting a pitt bull, you can't be sure they require it. If your dog attacks someone and they sue you, you'll find out soon enough if you're covered or not. My homeowners' policy from USAA wouldn't cover a pitt bull PERIOD and would only cover my GSD with certification of training.

Again, I am a responsible owner. I did call them to check, I did tell them. My insurance DOES NOT breed discriminate, so I am covered. Also, I would like to point out that insurance companies that do breed discriminate usually include the following breeds: Akita, American Staffordshire terrier (aka pit bull), Bernese mountain or cattle dog, Canario (aka Pressa Canario), chow chow, Doberman pinscher, German shepherd, Great Dane, huskies (American, Eskimo, Greenland, and often but not always Siberian), Karelian (aka Laika), malamute (aka Alaskan malamute), Rhodesian ridgeback, Rottweiler, Saint Bernard.

 

[Details]

You are saying every dog in a breed is a killer. That is not the same as every pedophile is dangerous. The corollary would be that every person is a pedophile or that every killer pit bull is a killer.

Not every pedophile is dangerous. They have a fault in their brain that makes them attracted to children. Some of them fight against that for their entire lives (and you never hear about them), or nearly their entire lives before they fail. There is a fault in the pitbull breed (which is deliberate) to make them extremely agressive, and very focused once they attack. Not every one will attack, some will not. Doesn't make them not dangerous, any more than the pedophiles are not dangerous just because some of them never attack a child.

 

[curlytone]

I wonder what the statistics would be if they covered all of the attacks by pitt bulls through 2005? It seems that as the number of reported attacks just in the last years that I've been here on Websleuths is alarming.

One of my main points all along. It is a myth perpetuated by the media. A story about killer pit bulls will sell like hot cakes. Think about when the whole anthrax thing happened in 2001-2002. Watching the news, you would think all of us were facing immanent death. I think 1 person died.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Pit bulls led all breeds for fatal attacks between 1979 and 1998, with at least one pit bull involved in 66 mauling deaths, the study said. Rottweilers were blamed for 37 -- most of those in the 1990s -- followed by German shepherds with 17 and huskies with 15


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/15/deadly.dogs.ap/


Look down the list of these animal attack stories and see how man pit bull attacks are mentioned.

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/


A Bronx tot was mauled yesterday when her pet pit bull snapped and tore into her cheeks, police and witnesses said.
Makailah Barnett, 3, nearly had the side of her face ripped off after a pooch named Pepper attacked her and her sister as they played in the house with the family's two other dogs.
"The dog just lost her mind," said the girl's uncle Corey Bellamy, who ran across the street when he heard screams. "The dog wigged out."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/162138p-142189c.html


Anecdotally, pit bulls are often said to be not only the most
dangerous breed, but also the breed most often shot by police, dragged by
vehicles, and otherwise violently injured--with Rottweilers right behind.

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/haydenLaw1100.html


threatening and fatal pit bull attacks increased 789%


http://www.nokillsolutions.com/PDF/ANIMALPEOPLE.PDF


AND FROM PIT BULL REPORTER MAGAZINE:
The annual number of reported fatal attacks has not varied widely in the past 20 years, the study said. But overall attacks are on the rise — likely because families are busier, leaving them less time to train their dogs and watch their children.
"A dog has to have its behavior monitored and consequences put in place," Sacks said. "People don’t seem to have a lot of time in their lives for that."
Pit bulls led all breeds for fatal attacks between 1979 and 1998, with at least one pit bull involved in 66 mauling deaths, the study said. Rottweilers were blamed for 37 — most of those in the 1990s
http://www.pbreporter.com/rottweilers_now_.htm

In December, 2004, the Billingsley family of Shoreline Park, MS, lost their infant child, Kamryn, when the family’s 6 month old pit bull dragged the child out of her mother’s bed and into the living room, biting Kamryn several times. The child would die of head trauma before paramedics arrived.


http://www.jayfosterlaw.com/practice_areas/dog-bite-attacks.cfm


I concede there’s an epidemic of pit bull attacks; in Boston, and all over America. Incredibly, only hours before the Boston City Council approved the measure, a local police officer’s pit bull dog leveled an apparently unprovoked attack on a Shiba Inu dog. In another incident on Monday of the same week, a pit bull in Dorchester, MA mauled a 6-year old boy.

http://www.wgnradio.com/shows/pet/breedspecific.htm

 

[forthekids]

Unless you called your insurance company and told them you were getting a pitt bull, you can't be sure they require it. If your dog attacks someone and they sue you, you'll find out soon enough if you're covered or not. My homeowners' policy from USAA wouldn't cover a pitt bull PERIOD and would only cover my GSD with certification of training.

Jeana:
When I first looked into homebuying I did some research on this. According to the insurance that is promoted by my employer it WILL NOT cover homeowners insurance for anyone who owns the following dog breeds:German Shepard Dogs, Akita, Chow Chow, Doberman Pinchers, Rotweilers, Husky, Wolf hybred, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffershire Terrier, Cane Corsos and a few others. That is a HUGE list. After looking more there are some companies that have these restrictions and others that don't.

I think as a responsible pet owner it is a MUST to look into this no matter what kind of animal you have. Ya know!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Curly, I guess I've posted all I can about this issue. I just hope no one you know is the next reported victim. Good luck and God bless.

 

[Jules]

I worked for an insurance defense firm several years ago that handled a really nasty dog bite case. It was a girl, age 7. She had over 2500 stitches on her face and head. It was the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. She had been mauled by a pit bull.

 

[curlytone]

Not every pedophile is dangerous. They have a fault in their brain that makes them attracted to children. Some of them fight against that for their entire lives (and you never hear about them), or nearly their entire lives before they fail. There is a fault in the pitbull breed (which is deliberate) to make them extremely agressive, and very focused once they attack. Not every one will attack, some will not. Doesn't make them not dangerous, any more than the pedophiles are not dangerous just because some of them never attack a child.

I am not going to even approach the "Not every pedophile is dangerous". But, dogs are not intellectual powerhouses that fight their urges with extreme efficiency. Put a hamburger on your kitchen table in front of a dog and leave the house. Do you think it will be there when you return? Also, if they only want to fight and kill as you suggest, why don't they (2.5 deaths per year)? A dog doesn't have the moral objections that we do and they don't understand that it is illeagal. All dogs had to kill before we domesticated them and started loading them with Purrina.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

One of my main points all along. It is a myth perpetuated by the media. A story about killer pit bulls will sell like hot cakes. Think about when the whole anthrax thing happened in 2001-2002. Watching the news, you would think all of us were facing immanent death. I think 1 person died.

Once again you try to make a situation less serious than it is. One two second search and:

Telegraph | News | Two postal workers die in Washington anthrax scare
TWO postal workers in Washington DC died of suspected anthrax poisoning ...
If the two deaths are confirmed as anthrax, it would bring the number of ...
http://www.news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/23/wthrax23.xml - Cached


Burnham Institute - News - 10-23-2001
October 23, 2001 - CRYSTAL STRUCTURE OF ANTHRAX TOXIN LETHAL FACTOR INFORMS ...
“The same pathways that have been developed by anthrax to cause death can be ...
http://www.burnham.org/NewsAndInformation/News/10-23-2001.asp - Cached


Karl Pfleger's Discussion of Leading Causes of Death
It's mid-Nov., 2001. That means that more people have died since 9/11/01 ...
plus died of anthrax poisoning, plus died in the recent New York airline crash. ...
http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~kpfleger/auto/causes_of_death.html - Cached


CNN.com - Ashcroft: Terrorists 'poisoning our communities ...
... of the September 11 attacks -- are now poisoning our communities with anthrax."
... 13 total anthrax infections • 3 deaths from inhalation infections ...

 

[curlytone]

I worked for an insurance defense firm several years ago that handled a really nasty dog bite case. It was a girl, age 7. She had over 2500 stitches on her face and head. It was the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. She had been mauled by a pit bull.

Also, I am not saying that pit bulls can't attack, they can. I truely is tragic when anybody gets mauled, but mauling isn't breed specific and it is often the result of negligence on the part of the owner. Was that the only dog bite that worked on? A car can create a very horrific scene and is much more dangerous than any dog, but we hold people responsible for being negligent with them.

 

[Details]

I am not going to even approach the "Not every pedophile is dangerous". But, dogs are not intellectual powerhouses that fight their urges with extreme efficiency. Put a hamburger on your kitchen table in front of a dog and leave the house. Do you think it will be there when you return? Also, if they only want to fight and kill as you suggest, why don't they (2.5 deaths per year)? A dog doesn't have the moral objections that we do and they don't understand that it is illeagal. All dogs had to kill before we domesticated them and started loading them with Purrina.

Dogs don't have self control like humans do - their humans control them which is why they don't kill all the time. And when they do try, they don't always succeed - they just maim horribly (as per Jules post). Keeping the analogy - lots of pedophiles don't kill - doesn't make their actions any less horrible.

The dog is not as bad as the pedophile - it's just animal instinct that we humans have deliberately strengthened for centuries that makes them be so focused on their target and go for the kill. But it's the first example that came to mind - a case where just because someone who is inclined to attack, and restrained by society (or their owner and the pack mentality) doesn't attack doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered a danger, up until the day they die. And when they die with no attacks to their name, that doesn't mean that all other pedophiles, all other pitbulls are safe. It just means this one didn't have the right set of circumstances. But the statistics show what can and often does happen.