Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

[LinasK]

Yes for the law abiding owners it's a good move. But with city ordinances, there's usually never enough people out checking they're being followed. There's a city ordinance here that all dogs must be licensed annually. Mine never had a city license in 14 years. Nobody ever came by to check either. The only way they know is if a dog gets picked up by the dog catcher and taken to the pound. You have to buy a license to bail them out.

Since a 12-year-old boy Nicolas Fabish was just recently killed in S.F. by his own pit bulls, I think they'll (no pun intended) put some teeth into enforcing this statute. S.F. has also had one other horrific dog mauling death by Presa Canario dogs bred for fighting.

 

[Details]

Neutering all of them is a good start. That'll solve the problem over time - to whatever degree you can get compliance.

 

[SadieMae]

Since a 12-year-old boy Nicolas Fabish was just recently killed in S.F. by his own pit bulls, I think they'll (no pun intended) put some teeth into enforcing this statute. S.F. has also had one other horrific dog mauling death by Presa Canario dogs bred for fighting.

I remember that case. Aren't those also pretty huge dogs from Portugal/Spain? Very dangerous breed also, but not common in the US I don't think. The owners are out of jail now? Nicholas was left home by his "mother" in the basement because she didn't want the dogs to attack him. Now that was one stuuuupid beeyotch. She KNEW the dogs were a threat to her child and left him alone with them.:banghead:

 

[golfmom]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051107pitbull,1,4744982.story?page=2&coll=chi-news-hed

"I was always one of those people who said it wasn't the dog, it was the owner," Ellen Lamarre said. "But in this case I think it was the dog. They just turned."

 

[SewingDeb]

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but we should keep track in a thread or a forum of all the stories about pit bull attacks. I've seen so many stories about them everywhere.

It's easy to get thousands of these stories. Just google pit bull + attack. It's horrific to see how many hits you get.

I'll stick with my little beagle. She loves everybody and she's great with kids.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

They're just like guns....they'll always be around IMO.

I disagree with that statement. They're a lot harder to hide than guns. However, speaking of guns, since there ARE so many of them around, I wonder why no one went and got one and shot these dogs when they attacked. That would have been my first reaction.

Dogs are pack animals who have been bred to attack and kill their own kind. They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads telling them NOT to go after them as they were trained to do. Simple as that. The breed needs to go.

 

[Hbgchick]

In the city where I live, the SPCA will spay or neuter anyone's pit bulls and pit bull mixes for no charge. It is an attempt to reduce the backyard breeding of this breed. Accidental breeding and backyard breeders are the source for most of the dangerous pit bulls around here. Less PB puppies, less PB's. Hopefully this free program will spread to other cities throughout the country.

Hear hear!

 

[tuppence]

My hairdresser had 2 pitbulls. She got them when they were about 8 weeks old. Had them for many many years. She used to say they were so great and playful. Never would hurt a fly. Such sweets dogs, she would say. Well I asked her one day how the dogs were, because she mentioned she got a new dog(not a pitbull). Thats when she said all of the sudden they started showing aggression, to the children and herself. She got rid of them immediately. I wanted to say, I thought they were great dogs, but I bit my tongue. As she was cutting my hair.. Those dogs scare me to death. In my opinion, I don't even think they are cute. I am afraid to go for outdoor walks, because I have seen some roaming around. And it scared me.

at least she was willing to do something about it! I think most people would be too stubborn after they spent years defending the breed...

 

[Sassygerl]

I disagree with that statement. They're a lot harder to hide than guns. However, speaking of guns, since there ARE so many of them around, I wonder why no one went and got one and shot these dogs when they attacked. That would have been my first reaction.

Dogs are pack animals who have been bred to attack and kill their own kind. They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads telling them NOT to go after them as they were trained to do. Simple as that. The breed needs to go.

Oh I agree with you that they're a lot harder to hide, but rest assured it can be done, and the dogs will continue to be bred....banned or not. Just like anything else illegal. I am one who would be happy if there were none in my neighborhood...trust me! Then there are Rotties too....

 

[Nore]

Me either.

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That makes three of us!

 

[Hbgchick]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051107pitbull,1,4744982.story?page=2&coll=chi-news-hed

"I was always one of those people who said it wasn't the dog, it was the owner," Ellen Lamarre said. "But in this case I think it was the dog. They just turned."

Well of course. It's HER FAMILY that is the owner this time, so of COURSE it couldn't be THEIR fault...it's just those OTHER owners fault...:banghead:

 

[golfmom]

Well of course. It's HER FAMILY that is the owner this time, so of COURSE it couldn't be THEIR fault...it's just those OTHER owners fault...:banghead:

I believe you're mistaken, she is the relative of the little girl. It certainly didn't benefit her or her family members to say that. It just so happens that I agree with her. I always felt that it was the owners and not the dogs. I now firmly believe that these dogs (like people) in spite of having loving homes can turn.

 

[Details]

I think she had to learn it the hard way. When it's not you, it's easy to blame the owners - until you know the owners and the dog involved and realize that it really does happen - a well raised dog, good owners, and they'll still snap!

Pure denial - until it's you. A common thing - just like the people who are anti-abortion (until it's their 16 year old daughter who gets pregnant), or people who are sympathetic to criminals being caused by society's ills (until they get mugged), etc.

 

[curlytone]

Let me start by offering my condolences to any of you who have lost a family member (human or animal) to any dog. It is truly an unfortunate occurrence that should never happen. I ask that you do your best to keep an open mind as you read this.



Please take this quick pit bull identification quiz: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

I didn’t get it right until probably the 15th guess.



From this it is easy to understand how identifying a dog involved in an attack, especially a pit bull, can be inaccurate. Almost all media stories involving “vicious pit bulls” rely on the accounts of eyewitnesses. In many of these stories, further investigations reveal that the dog (or dogs) involved is not in fact a pit bull. Unfortunately, newspapers with headlines like “Unknown-Breed Dog Mauls Woman” don’t attract readers like ones about pit bulls. You will never see follow-up stories with the same front-page publicity that correct the breed type or even stories after the investigation. They are always first reports in the day or days right after the incident.



Also, many people in this thread describe pit bulls as ready to “snap” or “turn without notice”. Since nobody seems to have owned one, and only one person said that they have a friend who owned two, I can only infer that these descriptions are based on the media reports where owners of the dog describe the history of the dog. If we think about this for a minute: The owner’s dog has just hurt or killed someone. Police officers and reporters are asking about the dog. How likely is it that the owner is going to say, “Oh yeah, Rex has always been vicious. In fact, it was just a matter of time until this was going to happen. What, with all that illegal fighting that I’ve been training him for, I am surprised that this was his first kill.”? Of course they are going to say that the dog was always nice, if the owner has any chance of avoiding criminal charges or lawsuits, they must say that. How many people actually take responsibility for their negligence these days? The story that started this whole thread states that the incident is being investigated as a criminal matter. What are the chances that anyone will read the results of the investigations?



Many posts also make comments like “They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads” and “They bite to kill”. Let’s put this in perspective. There are millions of pit bulls in the United States and annually there is an average of 17 DOG related deaths per year. That is ALL dogs. Since 1965 that list includes 36 breeds (with the beagle and Great Dane making the list). So either pit bulls are not “programmed” to attack or they do not “bite to kill”, or both are false. As a matter of fact, the American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/statistics.html) ranks the pit bull (American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire terrier) higher than almost all other dogs. To further explore, even if you say that pit bulls caused half of the annual deaths or 8.5 (which is not the case), your odds of winning the Powerball lottery jackpot are much greater with an average of 14.33 annual winners over the last three years (and this average will go up since 2005 is not over, but there will likely be more winners). Furthermore, the Powerball lottery is only played in 27 states.



Let’s also look at some additional things that should be banned because they are “dangerous” (2002 National Safety Council, http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm ):

-Dogs (all dogs not just pit bulls), 18 deaths: but let’s ban pit bulls.

-Animal rider or occupant of animal-drawn vehicle, 118 deaths: clearly horses must go.

-Cars (just cars, not SUVs, Trucks, Motorcycles, etc.), 16,337 deaths: let’s ban them.

-Fall involving bed, chair, other furniture, 785 deaths: furniture is clearly vicious, ban it.

-Drowning in the bath tub, 352 deaths: my neighborhood would surely be better off without them.

-Ignition or melting of nightwear, 13 deaths: evil little pajamas, ban them.

-Intentional Self Harm; 31,655 deaths: Whoa, huge number. What should we do here? Should we ban anything one can overdose on, suffocate themselves with, guns, knives, etc? Maybe we need to ban people, or maybe just ones with emotional or mental health issues. Maybe certain races or sexes are more likely to harm themselves. According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf#046) white males have the highest percentages; lets ban both whites and males, because clearly the only logical conclusion is that they are ready to snap without warning.

Other sources:

-In the year 2000, 1561 teenagers were arrested for murder: maybe we should ban teens; maybe we could neuter people, then the problem would solve itself.

-You are more likely to be murdered by someone you know. Lets band together (temporarily) to pass some legislation that bans contact with anyone we know. We must then disband quickly so that we don’t break our new law or give into our ingrained instincts to snap on one another. This fact also makes us wonder about the stories describing dog attacks where the people “knew the dog”.

-Lets not even talk about alcohol, tobacco, and our national inability to balance diet and exercise.



I apologize for the sarcasm, but the point is that nobody thinks that any of these things should be banned or that they are inherently dangerous. Also, I know that one reaction will be, “yeah, but pit bulls hurt way more people than they kill”. The same can be said of everything in the list above. Everyone can see how absurd the proposed bans above are, except for pit bulls.; Quite a few people see that as reasonable.



Take a look at the experiences that people in this post have discussed. Is it responsible to have a dog (of any breed) that can jump its own fence and is given an opportunity to do so? Is it responsible to let a dog approach a cat (or any animal) it doesn’t know? Is it responsible to let a Great Dane corner someone in a garage (more on this later)? Is it responsible to own a dog that is too strong physically that you can’t handle it? Is it responsible to allow dogs the opportunity to wander the streets and “maraud children”? Is it responsible to laugh when your dog inflicts damage on another animal (makes me question whether the owner raised the dog properly and had good intentions)? It seems to me that all of the postings about pit bull horror stories have a common theme in addition to the dog breed: an irresponsible owner.



To the comment “i am surprised to see so many level-headed people on here, i thought by now we would all be attacked for the things we are saying (funny how the owners often act so much like their dogs! LOL)”. I honestly did laugh out loud; this follows a poster whose husband killed a neighbor’s dog (albeit an irresponsible owner and a vicious dog with a mind-numbing vertical jump) in an eye-for-an-eye exchange. Sounds like the definition of level-headedness to me. In that situation the tally is vicious dog, 1 dog killed; levelheaded adult, 1 dog killed. Also, so far, the only attacking seems to be non-pit bull owners attacking pit bull owners. Funny how the non-owners often act so much like the stereotype of the dogs that they hate.



This comment, in another post, blows my mind, “…second, my friend was cornered in her garage by a Great Dane. This dog was inches above her head and held her at bay for the longest period of time. Pit bulls are little evil things…” This sounds like a Johnnie Cochran closing argument, “If it doesn’t fit…it’s an evil little pit”. This is followed by, “Thank goodness it was a Great Dane rather than a pit bull- they probably wouldn't just hold her at bay, they'd go for the throat.” Guess what? IT WASN’T A PIT BULL!!! This is exactly how pit bull myths are perpetuated. The story is about a Great Dane that was aggressive to someone. Then, with no basis pit bulls enter the story. Then some says “good thing it wasn’t a pit bull”. The next person will say, “Did you hear about the Great Dane an pit bull that mauled someone?” The next, “I heard a lady was almost killed by a pit bull, but her Great Dane saved her”. Another poster explains that her son has been bitten twice by Dalmatians, but doesn’t trust pit bulls.



I took one of the poster’s advice and googled pit bull + attacks. They were right, it is a horrific 616,000 hits. Then I googled beagle + attacks, 704,000 hits. Try it with any breed. A Pomeranian killed someone.



Also, the only dog to ever bite me (broke skin on three occasions, once in the face) was my childhood dog, Asta (like the Thin Man movies). He was a wirehaired fox terrier. Was it the dog breed that was the problem? No. Was it responsible for my parents to keep the dog after the first incident? No. Finally, everyone seems to know a brother’s girlfriend’s second-removed step-cousin or some acquaintance that has been bitten by a pit bull. Ask everyone you know if a dog has personally bitten him or her. Then ask them what breed. A dog has bitten every person that I have ever asked this question. Not one by a pit bull.



This forum is called "Websleuths". The Merriam-Webster definition of sleuth is "to act as a detective : search for information". From what I can tell, there hasn't been much information searching to substantiate the logic behind hating and banning an entire breed. Most reactions seem to be emotional ones based on the quick examination of the top-level events, which are often provided by a sales-driven media (e.g. Marauding pit bulls attack six = all pit bulls are bad). Before rushing to conclusions, investigate, analyze and learn about individual situations. Then examine whether individual situations are representative of the big picture. In other words, be part of the "crime sleuthing community" for which this forum is intended.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Give me a break!!!! We ALL think teenagers should be banned. Geez. :croc:

 

[Details]

The problem with pit bulls isn't how often they attack - everyone knows little dogs are psycho. It's what happens when they attack. Their inbred tendencies and their strength make an attack by a pit bull serious, where an attack by a terrier is just a nuisance.

And these attacks - they are pit bulls. In the case above where it was a family dog that just turned and snapped - they know it was a pit bull.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The problem with pit bulls isn't how often they attack - everyone knows little dogs are psycho. It's what happens when they attack. Their inbred tendencies and their strength make an attack by a pit bull serious, where an attack by a terrier is just a nuisance.

And these attacks - they are pit bulls. In the case above where it was a family dog that just turned and snapped - they know it was a pit bull.

Of course pitt bulls are the most vicious dogs on the planet or they wouldn't be the breed used for the fighting. If any other dog could provide these idiots with better "entertainment," why aren't they using them? People can stick their heads in the sand if they want when it comes to these dogs, but they're dangerous or they wouldn't be making so many people so much money.

 

[SewingDeb]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

 

[Boatswain'sMate]

Of course pitt bulls are the most vicious dogs on the planet or they wouldn't be the breed used for the fighting. If any other dog could provide these idiots with better "entertainment," why aren't they using them? People can stick their heads in the sand if they want when it comes to these dogs, but they're dangerous or they wouldn't be making so many people so much money.

Pit bulls are used for fighting because they are muscular and will not stop if they are hurt. You do realize people stand in the pit while the dogs fight and handle the dogs during the fight? Do you think they would do that if the dogs were likely to turn on them and rip them apart? Please read curlytone's post; it is well researched and fair.

People who make pit bulls fight should be sent to jail. People who train any large, muscular dog to be agressive should be sent to jail, too.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Thank you.

'Nuf said.