Mark Smich: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[swedie]

IMO, LE made reference to computer seizures pretty early on in this case and continued their quest from the time they arrested DM to the time they charged CN & MWJ. IMHO, if there was digital evidence, LE have it. MS just doesn't seem to be the type of guy who has every gadget on the market. MOO

June 5/13: "Down the road, there may be more people," Kavanagh said. "We've seized a lot of computer equipment that we have to go through."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ler-tried-to-arrange-3rd-test-drive-1.1302075



Tony Leitch, the Hamilton Crown attorney prosecuting the Bosma case, says the project involves "one of the largest computer seizures in Ontario criminal law history."

After Millard and Smich were originally arrested, search warrants were executed to seize computers and cellphones which the OPP have analyzed, he says.

http://m.cambridgetimes.ca/news-sto...sed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated

Actually it's really quite something how stupid or naive criminals are when they commit crimes, especially nowadays with all the digital electronics. They get caught on surveillance, they use their computers or cell phones as a means of researching, looking up information related to committing crimes, take pictures of themselves or their cohorts doing crimes and then some. Just think of all the information/evidence LE have gathered from DM, MS, CN, the three M's and so on, just like the domino effect. Maybe it's call the World Wide WEB for a reason. Oh what a tangled web we weave... :giggle:

I was surprised during the MR trial all the digital electronic evidence LE was able to obtain. His laptop, another computer hard drive, his cell phone, surveillance from a store, bank, outside of a Home Depot, TS walking with TLM away from the school to MR's car, MR's car captured on at least a few surveillance cameras. Yay for modern tech! :great: All MOO.

 

[Juballee]

Thoughts about DM's ambition tattoo. Did he receive this tattoo in another country and assumed no local tattoo artist would be able to ID it and him? Did he believe none of his friends would consider him as someone who would steal a truck therefore he assumed they wouldn't call in tips? Was there an actual box tattooed around the word or was DM odd enough to draw the box around it thinking that would disguise it? Was the business owner mistaken about the box?

It has been reported the suspects were to arrive earlier that evening for the test drive but showed up late. I cannot find the link at this time but will continue to look. I know the information is in my timeline. With that, I wonder if DM had called TB one time only to set up a date and time to test drive his truck, or maybe there were other calls placed from different phones? Is it possible they played telephone tag and DM left a voice mail and call back number for TB?

Just some random thoughts and questions, I guess TWT.

In my opinion, if someone was going to go through the trouble of slightly modifying their tattoo by basically outlining it to cover their true identity in preparation for committing a major crime, why wouldn't they go through less trouble and just cover it with a bandaid or a change of shirt? Why spend the time making a minor change when it would be easier and far more efficient to cover it completely?

Outlining something draws attention to it, that's why when we are making notes we tend to circle, underline, and highlight the most important parts that we want people to remember. Personally, I draw little boxes around the things I want to stand out more, like names or phone numbers, when I am taking notes.

What if a person were trying to imitate someone, and thought that the most memorable way to do it would be to copy their tattoos, and make them obvious, draw extra attention to them? Or what if, when trying to imitate DM's tattoos, someone got one wrong, it wasn't exactly as they remembered it? I imagine that MWJ could never impersonate DM unless he could fully cover up all his tattoos and draw on new ones, but has anyone ever seen any pics of MS's arms, are they tattooed at all, do we know?

I think I recall DM's racing buddy getting a matching tattoo with DM, I wonder if any of his other friends have matching ambition tattoos, or almost matching, say with a box around it?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Crew cab? So what do you figure that price would be after tax and licensing? Maybe around $85,000, more than my original estimate? And if you need one quick, you can't wait for them to "build one to order", you take what's available. And as I'm sure you found, there are few Ram 3500's with those features sitting around on dealer lots at this time of the year.

MOO

Yes, crew cab. And no, not really. I believe your original estimate was around $80,000 and was also before tax and licensing. I understand from earlier conversations in this forum that it also would not be a quick job to put that diesel engine into DM's non-diesel truck.

JMO

ETA: And it wasn't difficult at all. I simply checked to find a dealer, chose the closest in the list that came up, and it was the third truck I looked at.

 

[Alethea Dice]

IMO, LE made reference to computer seizures pretty early on in this case and continued their quest from the time they arrested DM to the time they charged CN & MWJ. IMHO, if there was digital evidence, LE have it. MS just doesn't seem to be the type of guy who has every gadget on the market. MOO

June 5/13: "Down the road, there may be more people," Kavanagh said. "We've seized a lot of computer equipment that we have to go through."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ler-tried-to-arrange-3rd-test-drive-1.1302075



Tony Leitch, the Hamilton Crown attorney prosecuting the Bosma case, says the project involves "one of the largest computer seizures in Ontario criminal law history."

After Millard and Smich were originally arrested, search warrants were executed to seize computers and cellphones which the OPP have analyzed, he says.

http://m.cambridgetimes.ca/news-sto...sed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated

I believe that MS was one of the players on the Steam gaming site, so I'd have to assume he also uses computers and electronics.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

Excellent point. Why did he have a $90,000 modified racing jeep if he had no intention of racing it? What did he build it for if not to race it? Why get a Baja500 tattoo with no intention to race in it again?

Good question about the red truck. Is it being held for evidence? Was it sold with the other vehicle inventory?

Does anyone have a screen cap of the yellow jeep for sale? What kind of engine was in it?

I believe he did race it - in 2011. A tattoo is more likely IMO to be a memory of something you've done. It needn't be a reminder of what you plan to do in the future.

JMO

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Yes, crew cab. And no, not really. I believe your original estimate was around $80,000 and was also before tax and licensing. I understand from earlier conversations in this forum that it also would not be a quick job to put that diesel engine into DM's non-diesel truck.

JMO



ETA: And it wasn't difficult at all. I simply checked to find a dealer, chose the closest in the list that came up, and it was the third truck I looked at.

I said that it would cost approximately 80 thousand to replace his truck with a new one with similar features...period. I did not mention taxes extra, just a flat rate of 80 thousand. I even posted a MSRP of one truck I found. But no one pays the MSRP. Even in that ad they were knocking it down 6 thousand. As I started looking around I saw that it would actually be a little more now in 2015 but it might have been a little less a couple of years ago and I had to factor in his bargaining skills so I rounded off the number to 80 thousand.

I won't even bother to ask for a link to the one that you found. I think we can both agree that I was correct in my original statement that it would cost DM around 80 grand to replace his truck with a new one. Ball park figure.

DM in particular and apparently some of his friends and the mechanic he employed had nothing but time on their hands to work on modifying a vehicle IMO. It's not like there was much Millardair work to be done. So I think they could have gotten it done in a couple of weeks with all the parts available to them in a second stolen vehicle.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

In my opinion, if someone was going to go through the trouble of slightly modifying their tattoo by basically outlining it to cover their true identity in preparation for committing a major crime, why wouldn't they go through less trouble and just cover it with a bandaid or a change of shirt? Why spend the time making a minor change when it would be easier and far more efficient to cover it completely?

Outlining something draws attention to it, that's why when we are making notes we tend to circle, underline, and highlight the most important parts that we want people to remember. Personally, I draw little boxes around the things I want to stand out more, like names or phone numbers, when I am taking notes.

What if a person were trying to imitate someone, and thought that the most memorable way to do it would be to copy their tattoos, and make them obvious, draw extra attention to them? Or what if, when trying to imitate DM's tattoos, someone got one wrong, it wasn't exactly as they remembered it? I imagine that MWJ could never impersonate DM unless he could fully cover up all his tattoos and draw on new ones, but has anyone ever seen any pics of MS's arms, are they tattooed at all, do we know?

I think I recall DM's racing buddy getting a matching tattoo with DM, I wonder if any of his other friends have matching ambition tattoos, or almost matching, say with a box around it?

<modsnip> Once again I don't think even DM is disputing that it was him that was with MS on the test drive. Is he? Why is he still in jail if he wasn't even there? He can't prove that he was nowhere near Ancaster, Brantford, Waterloo from early evening May 6th until the following morning? He didn't make one cell phone call, one text, play one round of xbox, contact anyone and no one contacted him? Not even his girlfriend? He left his phone off that entire time and slept for about 14hrs? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I believe he did race it - in 2011. A tattoo is more likely IMO to be a memory of something you've done. It needn't be a reminder of what you plan to do in the future.

JMO

JMO

Why didn't he sell the $90,000 Jeep after he was finished his one time stint in an off road race?

 

[swedie]

I believe that MS was one of the players on the Steam gaming site, so I'd have to assume he also uses computers and electronics.

JMO

MsSherlock said: MS just doesn't seem to be the type of guy who has every gadget on the market. MOO
Just because he had a Steam account doesn't mean he had the gadgets. He did live in WM's basement for a stint and was likely making use of some of DM's toys. MOO.

Do you have a link for his Steam account? Or can provide dates as to when that account was made? TIA.

 

[Juballee]

<modsnip> Once again I don't think even DM is disputing that it was him that was with MS on the test drive. Is he? Why is he still in jail if he wasn't even there? He can't prove that he was nowhere near Ancaster, Brantford, Waterloo from early evening May 6th until the following morning? He didn't make one cell phone call, one text, play one round of xbox, contact anyone and no one contacted him? Not even his girlfriend? He left his phone off that entire time and slept for about 14hrs? :waitasec:

MOO

Personally, I don't know what DM is conceding or refuting when it comes to the upcoming trial. If someone here has some factual knowledge as to what his electronic footprint does or does not show, please let us in on it or link to it. If we know what the girlfriend will testify to in advance, please share the link for that as well.

I still stand by my opinions in regards to highlighting a tattoo by putting a box around it as opposed to just covering it up with a shirt or a bandaid. No offense, but that's just my opinion.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I don't know what DM is conceding or refuting when it comes to the upcoming trial. If someone here has some factual knowledge as to what his electronic footprint does or does not show, please let us in on it or link to it. If we know what the girlfriend will testify to in advance, please share the link for that as well.

I still stand by my opinions in regards to highlighting a tattoo by putting a box around it as opposed to just covering it up with a shirt or a bandaid. No offense, but that's just my opinion.

Under "Millard's Q&A with a jailhouse groupie"

Iphone or Blackberry?
Been with iphone since it’s [sic] first model, was looking forward to a z10

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

In 2011, it was reported that Apple collects GPS data off of users phones (for research, marketing, whatever) so I guess Apple knows where the phones go.

The cell company would also know where the phones go.

Anyway, apparently DM is a long-time smartphone user, and those devices tend to be a treasure-trove of info for LE.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Under "Millard's Q&A with a jailhouse groupie"



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

In 2011, it was reported that Apple collects GPS data off of users phones (for research, marketing, whatever) so I guess Apple knows where the phones go.

The cell company would also know where the phones go.

Anyway, apparently DM is a long-time smartphone user, and those devices tend to be a treasure-trove of info for LE.

BBM

I am wondering if that technology has helped them determine the whereabouts of SL iPad..perhaps close enough to connect it to DM?

 

[Juballee]

Under "Millard's Q&A with a jailhouse groupie"



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

In 2011, it was reported that Apple collects GPS data off of users phones (for research, marketing, whatever) so I guess Apple knows where the phones go.

The cell company would also know where the phones go.

Anyway, apparently DM is a long-time smartphone user, and those devices tend to be a treasure-trove of info for LE.

I was actually asking if anyone had any factual knowledge about what his electronic footprint does or does not show, to link to that please. Personally I can also guess at what it may possibly contain, but I was looking for facts, not guesses, but thanks anyway.

I wonder what happens if a person owns two or more cell phones, and the phones are at different locations when a crime is committed? What if the pay as you go phone was at the scene of the crime but DM's cell registered in his name was in Etobicoke? That would give me the impression that perhaps he bought the cheaper, more disposable phone with no plan for a friend that was so down on his luck he was sleeping in the basement. Just my opinion only.

 

[Kamille]

BBM

I am wondering if that technology has helped them determine the whereabouts of SL iPad..perhaps close enough to connect it to DM?

That's a good question. There must be some evidence, probably some of it electronic, computers/smart phones & devices, that ties DM and MS to LB's disappearance and what LE seem to be determining as her death. And at the same time, does not exonerate either of them from TB's murder.

iPhones and iPads can be backed up to the cloud. That WOULD be a treasure trove of info for LE if they were and LE had access to that info IMO. Not to mention if they have the actual smart phones belonging to the accused, nothing is deleted permanently from those. Just like computers.

MOO

 

[Juballee]

BBM

I am wondering if that technology has helped them determine the whereabouts of SL iPad..perhaps close enough to connect it to DM?

Even if SL's ipad was somewhere in DM's or MS's residences, it would be impossible to prove that it was stolen from LB and not that she had perhaps sold it to one of them for money, in my opinion. Perhaps it was traded for the money she left in a shoebox when she dropped off her dog.

 

[matou]

What about her phone? Did she sell that too?

 

[Juballee]

Logic would dictate that if LE had also found LB's phone at one of their residences (which has not been suggested anywhere in the media as far as I can tell, so if I missed that please link to it), the same defence could apply.

People who are desperate for money or drugs often sell their belongings (or their bodies). It would be nearly impossible to determine all this time later if she had sold those supposed belongings to her friends or if she had loaned them or if she had forgotten them, or if she had had them stolen from her, regardless of what the objects are, in my opinion.

 

[swedie]

Even if SL's ipad was somewhere in DM's or MS's residences, it would be impossible to prove that it was stolen from LB and not that she had perhaps sold it to one of them for money, in my opinion. Perhaps it was traded for the money she left in a shoebox when she dropped off her dog.

Well that would definitely fit into the dumbest criminal category then IMO. Then again it wouldn't be the the first dumb mistake made in covering their trail. MOO.

 

[swedie]

I was actually asking if anyone had any factual knowledge about what his electronic footprint does or does not show, to link to that please. Personally I can also guess at what it may possibly contain, but I was looking for facts, not guesses, but thanks anyway.

I wonder what happens if a person owns two or more cell phones, and the phones are at different locations when a crime is committed? What if the pay as you go phone was at the scene of the crime but DM's cell registered in his name was in Etobicoke? That would give me the impression that perhaps he bought the cheaper, more disposable phone with no plan for a friend that was so down on his luck he was sleeping in the basement. Just my opinion only.

That would give me the impression DM was out and about with the pay as you go phone, probably doing nefarious business and left his legit phone at home in Etobicoke.

No links that I'm aware of but you can bet your bippy DM's electronic footprints were uncovered during the investigation. That's just a given IMO

So now we have this so down and out friend? Who may he/she be? Link that up please and TIA. The only down and out friend I heard of was LB. And when she asked DM for help he denied her. We've heard WM's basement was a bit of a flop house, but were these friends really down and out? Maybe they just wanted to get out from under their mother's feet and prying eyes. Maybe DM was making them offers too good to refuse. Maybe they could get away with doing things in the Millard's house that they couldn't get away with at home. :dunno: Remember this article stating the Millard's house was a mess. And no I don't believe it was left a mess by LE during the search but that's JMO. DM also had a mess in the hangar which he refused to clean up.

The home was host to pool parties with Millard’s schoolmates, and a bevy of cats and dogs lived there throughout the years, friends and family said.
When the Star visited the home, which backs onto a golf course, in May following a police investigation, it was a mess, with clothing, documents and cans of soup strewn throughout. The only thing moving was a black cat.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2..._mother_sells_family_home_for_12_million.html

 

[Kamille]

Logic would dictate that if LE had also found LB's phone at one of their residences (which has not been suggested anywhere in the media as far as I can tell, so if I missed that please link to it), the same defence could apply.

People who are desperate for money or drugs often sell their belongings (or their bodies). It would be nearly impossible to determine all this time later if she had sold those supposed belongings to her friends or if she had loaned them or if she had forgotten them, or if she had had them stolen from her, regardless of what the objects are, in my opinion.

Until I see a link to any of this as facts in evidence, my opinion is that the person(s) who is responsible for LB's disappearance is also responsible for her belongings disappearing as well. Including the IPad she was loaned and her phone that she last used to call Dellen Millard, even though he tried to deny that.

Where was LB before she disappeared and how is MS involved? Was she also staying at DM's place? Is that why MS allegedly helped with that murder as well?


MOO