Mark Warner Resort Childcare Information

[Shazza]

Alright, I will get down and nasty about it....ANYBODY how would consider useing a child listening service for a 3 year old and two 2 year olds is STUPID!! I don't care who you are....

I too had a discussion about the services available at the resort earlier in this thread, I tried to point out the service could also be available because there were dangers to be had, the McCanns were warned about burglaries, they thought they were being followed, and still they did not use the babysitting service, and by that I mean a person, what does sleeping children sound like, quiet, what do missing children sound like, quiet, the listening service is a joke.


Have a shot of whiskey Colomom, calm them nerves, Im behind you all the way.:clap:

 

[colomom]

I too had a discussion about the services available at the resort earlier in this thread, I tried to point out the service could also be available because there were dangers to be had, the McCanns were warned about burglaries, they thought they were being followed, and still they did not use the babysitting service, and by that I mean a person, what does sleeping children sound like, quiet, what do missing children sound like, quiet, the listening service is a joke.


Have a shot of whiskey Colomom, calm them nerves, Im behind you all the way.:clap:

You got it grrrrllll, a bit o' brandy w/honey and lemon....ahhhhh toddy time....

thanks shazza!!!

XXOO

 

[Shazza]

You got it grrrrllll, a bit o' brandy w/honey and lemon....ahhhhh toddy time....

thanks shazza!!!

XXOO

A toddy sounds damn fine to me, but its to early for a drink here it isn't even lunch time yet.:slap:

 

[L L & S]

Hi Blaize, nice to run into you!!

Something I've been thinking about since you started this thread.... I wonder if other European resorts offer the same services as far as child care? Is this common among resort amenities.... and if it is then is there an expressed age limit. Like if your child is under a certain age they require you to hire an actual sitter (or, God forbid, the other way around.)

Do you happen to know?

 

[Brefie]

Hey this is an interesting new line! Are the McCanns sueing the Mark Warner Resort? Seems they should be, and given how they are about money and all, you'd think they would be!

Okay, not trying to start anything, but how are they all about money?

 

[blaize]

Alright, I will get down and nasty about it....ANYBODY how would consider useing a child listening service for a 3 year old and two 2 year olds is STUPID!! I don't care who you are....

Sometimes smart people do very, very stupid things & as we've seen something only has to go wrong once for the house of cards to come tumbling down, in this sad case resulting in Madeleine's disappearance.

 

[blaize]

Hi Blaize, nice to run into you!!

Something I've been thinking about since you started this thread.... I wonder if other European resorts offer the same services as far as child care? Is this common among resort amenities.... and if it is then is there an expressed age limit. Like if your child is under a certain age they require you to hire an actual sitter (or, God forbid, the other way around.)

Do you happen to know?

Hello L L & S,

it's not just resorts that offer baby listening services. Have a look at this link listing a number of hotels who offer the service in the UK. You may need to check individual hotel web sites to see if they set age limits.
[Source]

Some hotels in Ireland offering the same baby listening service.

[Burren Castle Hotel] Scroll down the page for info on the Burren Castle Hotel.

[Baltimore Habour Hotel]

[Grand Hotel Waterford]

Also at another link,
[Source]
"Baby Listening Services

Some hotels offer baby listening services for those parents who wish to stay in the hotel but possibly relax in the bar or eat a leisurely meal after the children are in bed.

These usually take the form of leaving your hotel room's telephone off the hook and the hotel receptionist will listen in and get a message to you if he/she hears that you child is awake. The alternative is to take your UK walk-about baby monitor downstairs with you, unfortunately however, due to the different radio wave bands that have been allocated to be used by different countries, interference is common. Add to this the frequent construction techniques used in much holiday accommodation, i.e. thick reinforced concrete walls and steel girders, and you may find reception is also a problem."

 

[L L & S]

Thank you Blaize. I started doing some Google searches on this and couldn't find a search string to get me where I wanted to go. I'll will absolutely do some pokin' around those links.

Have a good day.... or night... no it's day.

 

[pinto]

discussion about baby listening

Read in reverse order:


By Piggiesmum on Wed 24-May-06 21:47:48
Hmmm, some good points raised. Looks like we'll be either taking him along in the pushchair or getting a proper babysitter in.


By Northerner on Wed 24-May-06 11:07:18
Uglysister, don't mean to scare you, and ovbiosulsy you have to assess the level of risk. A family run small hotel in The Lake District is rather different to a 400 bedroom city centre hotel IYKWIM. But yes, even electroninc swipe keys - reception, night porters, maintenence men, room service, duty managers, house keepers all have access to guest bedrooms.


By Skribble on Tue 23-May-06 23:12:07
I'm afraid that is very true Northener, we probably wouldn't have used it but we new lots of the staff and the room was just along the corridoor on the ground floor, I don't think I would have used it in strange hotel and definatly not on another floor. Sorry I don't wan't to scare you as well but what about in the case of a fire? I would take babes with me, I don't know about England but in Scotland all indoor areas are non smoking including bars, restruants and function suites, great for those with young families.

By UglySister on Tue 23-May-06 19:51:31
Northerner, you´re putting the fear of God in me. What about the electronic access keys, do lots of staff still have a master key to cover all rooms?

By Northerner on Tue 23-May-06 19:37:14
I know I've said this before (but this is a huge bug bear of mine) I would NEVER trust a hotel listening service. I work in the industry, and am well aware that Locked Hotel rooms are not safe unless dead locked from the inside . Countless people have a key to acess your room, and countless break ins occur in hotel rooms all over. How many of us would leave our passport/handbag unattended in a hotel room? So why a child? Many of the major hotel groups will now not offer a baby listening service anyway.


By Skribblehttp://www.mumsnet.com/Profile?nick=Skribble on Tue 23-May-06 19:32:09
I stayed at a Hilton where the baby listen service meant leaving the phone off the hook in the room and you could phone the room any time as often as you wanted to monitor any noise. Works well if you do it right and get the phone near enough to the cot.


By LIZS on Tue 23-May-06 12:46:00
Not all hotels offer a service and as has been decribed they can be hit and miss. (Esprit "listen at door" service, at half hourly intervals, failed to spot dd had escaped from her travel cot and was howling behind the door.)We have used both the dial-up-to-listen and reception monitoring methods successfully but that may be luck. Could you take just your own monitor and ask for a low floor room ?

By UglySister on Tue 23-May-06 12:29:53
There are good phone baby löistening services. One type I know from a Kinderhotel is a contraption in baby´s room that picks up any noise and above a certain level will call you on your mobile. You can then here what´s happening in the room and if baby is crying run up to rescue her! This really worked, I was v pleased with it - check what the hotel offers! At 7 months though will your DS not sleep in the dining room anyway in his pram? My DD did no problem at this age... Could be worth a try.


By Piggiesmum on Mon 22-May-06 21:33:02
If I could take him down in the pram that would be perfect. We have been out on 2 big family party/meals and he slept through both of them. I couldn't believe it with all the noise. Taking my mum would be perfect but unfortunately its just too far away. Anyway thanks all, you've given me a few more things to think about/consider.

By MrsMuddle on Mon 22-May-06 21:24:37
Don't know how you're placed financially, but could you take your mum/sister or someone with you and pay for another room? It's probably the only way you'll be able to relax fully and enjoy your night. Also, some hotels' baby listening facilities mean that YOU have to dial your room every so often and listen in. It always used to be done by reception, but I guess they're afraid of getting sued or something now.

By moondog on Mon 22-May-06 21:10:59
I would trust a babysitter more than the other scenario. Other option is to bring her down in the pram,and park in quiet corner of the dining room. Feasible???


By Piggiesmum on Mon 22-May-06 20:59:22
eek Moondog. Are you talking from personal experience. Thats the sort of thing I'm afraid of. It's not really possible to leave him with anyone for various reasons. I did wonder about the babysitter option but I'm abit paranoid about leaving him with a stranger - haven't even left him with my own family for more than a couple of hours. Taking my own monitor would be the ideal option if it's range was good enough. I can just see me now, sitting there in my fancy dress, staring intently at the monitor hidden behing a glass of wine and leaping up from the table when it lights up!


By MissChief on Mon 22-May-06 20:41:57
depends on place, we've been lucky and had kindly fellow mums on reception listening in beofre so could even interpret the snuffles for us! take yr baby monitor too as it may work v- could ask for room where would work anyway.


By WickedWaterWitch on Mon 22-May-06 20:40:26
Is there someone who could have your ds overnight? Or you could try Sitters, they're very good. They won't do overnight though so that would only be any good for an evening. Why don't you phone the hotel and ask what they offer? Some may be better than moondog's terrifying description, which made me laugh! you will find opinions divided on mumsmet about baby listening from 'it'll be fine' to 'but what if a nuclear bomb dropped on Devon, then what would you do?' For a 7mo baby, I'm in the former camp.

By moondog on Mon 22-May-06 20:37:11
Phone stays off the hook. Lumpy teenager on YTS scheme texting in the reception area may listen in vaguely every 25 mins (when not thinking of what she'll be doing to her boyfriend on Friday night when her mum and dad are out) if you're lucky. Wouldn't trust it for a second.


By Piggiesmum on Mon 22-May-06 20:34:57
We've got an opportunity for a weekend away - dh's company do including fancy evening meal etc). It'll be the first time we've been out without ds (7 months) so while I'm looking forward to it I'm also suffering from 1st time mum nerves. We're thinking of using a baby listening service if it's available but (and sorry if it's a stupid question), how do they work exactly, anyone had any problems with them.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm trying not to get irritated here, but this is what I think:

Unless the Mark Warner resort people forced the McCann's out of their apartment every night at dinner, this comes down to a bad personal choice these parents made more than one time. By admitting that they left the children alone multiple nights, they don't have a legal leg to stand on in suing the resort for their own problems.

I disagree that a "precedent" set at that resort or any other lets them off the hook at all.

There is precedent that some people put soft drinks in baby bottles and give them to their toddlers, but if I do it, and my child's teeth rot because of it, it is my responsibility because I made a stupid and dangerous decision, and blaming it on what other people do would be lame indeed.

I can't sue the soft drink company, and I can't sue a dentist down the road who could have kept my child from having rotten teeth.

That's what it sounds like to me if the parents sued the resort because they chose "not" to hire a babysitter or nanny.

That's a logical fallacy to say "If everyone is doing it, then it's ok." If the parents couldn't stand the idea of eating out with their own children, then I feel sorry for them and the kids, too. They are not the ideal parents, obviously.

"Listening" at a door is not the same thing as "parenting" a child. They cannot shove the responsibility off so easily as that.

 

[CaliKid]

I looked up resorts with child-minding services on the web and there are a lot. While not all parents leave their children in their rooms, it seems to be a very familiar practice among the vacationers-with-money crowd in Europe. All of the following advertise child-minding services.

http://www.interhome.us/Holiday%20house/Ireland/South East/Courtown/J3440200.htm

http://skiing.drive-alive.co.uk/les-arcs.htm

http://www.thomson.co.uk/editorial/...-doubles-number-of-luxury-ski-properties.html

http://www.travelideas.net/hotels/Bali/Ubud_Area/Anahata_Villas_Spa_Resort

http://www.interhome.com.au/Holiday...Valais/Lötschental - Lötschberg/C3917660B.htm

http://skiing.drive-alive.co.uk/la-plagne.htm

Etc.

The following is from a blog called Tabula Rasa, and about halfway down a post is devoted to Madeleine entitled "This isn't going to have a happy ending". It was a very interesting read about the way people who live in Europe view holidays and taking children with them- extremely casual.

http://www.dragonsmind.co.uk/?m=200705

From it:
Most child-minding services outside of using the creche consist of walkie-talkies with the talk button taped down, having limited range and giving poor reception.

Creche service for your children at night may or may not be allowed depending on where you're dining.

Taking a child out to eat with you is discouraged.

There usually isn't room service of any kind of quality for the adults to eat in.

He finishes with: The thing is that we weren’t the only ones who were “negligent parents” leaving their kiddies in their room - just about all the other parents in the resort were doing the same. I sincerely doubt the McCanns were the only ones at their resort doing so either. We used to come down to the bar, have a small beer/glass of wine and join other parents and discuss, once again, how nice it was to be able to come on holiday to such a child friendly place and what good facilities they had to cater for families and how, as much as we absolutely adored our sprogs, it was still nice to be able to sit down for a little while without them and enjoy a drink, a meal and some adult company.

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for the McCanns, I'm just stating that it looks like it's done differently in Europe. Even though I would never leave my children alone nor know anyone else who would either, I think we need to get over this Leaving Kids Alone issue and move on.

 

[ThoughtFox]

OK, great, but if you look back at some of my previous posts, there are testimonials that talk about how wonderful the child care was at the Portugal resort.

But these parents didn't take advantage of all of that. However, I don't see why they couldn't have used the Creche that night, since this article states that the nanny in charge of night-time care said the last mother came to pick up her child at 10 p.m., and that's when they realized the McCanns were searching for Maddie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=483715&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

The mother who told the nanny someone was shouting for Maddie had also been out to dinner, but her children were being watched by a nanny, while the McCanns left their kids alone in a room, with tragic results.

I don't really care about what is done elsewhere, since that is hardly relevant to this case.

 

[L L & S]

I had a feeling that this type of "listening service" might be more common in other countries that I had originally thought.

Not a good idea IMO! If their radios or switchboards fail in any way... any of their "listening devices" really, and a child gets injured in the room on something, taken by a stranger, or whatever then the property might be liable to some degree. I could be way off base here. What do you guys think?

For example:

"You said your Listening Service/Device/Switchboard would alert me if my child woke. Now he/she is gone/injured." Who do you think the parents are going to go after?

Sounds like a HUGE risk to the property and I can see why we don't to that here. Oh goodness.... resorts don't do that here, right? I really need to get out more.

I wonder... because I'm kind of a computer nerd.... Will they replace this service with a video monitoring service (can you say iphone) for your kids? You take your laptop computer set it on the desk and point that camera at the sleeping babies and then go to the bar and party and just watch your kids on monitors. Then you have a nice video of your children enjoying the company of anyone on the property who has a pass key while your drinking Mojito's with Biff and Barb by the pool. (sarcastic I know, this really fascinates me though)

I don't like it but I do realize now that people in other countries do things differently than we do here in the Nifty Fifty. I wonder what kind of things we do that makes them Freak Out. I would kind of like to know because this service really FREAKS ME OUT.

BTW, nanny cams are easily purchased all over the net. I think if I used a sitting service (strangers with my kids, sorry probably not) but if I did I would have a hidden cam watching the people watching the kids. Even so, I would still be a wreck thinking constantly what was going on back in the room.

Thank you to Blaize Pinto and Thought Fox for going out and doing the "leg work" on this. To me, it has been very enlightening. I wonder if any resort would offer up any statistics about how many guests with children use the "listening services" vs "live sitters".

My heart breaks for this baby girl.

 

[CaliKid]

It sounds as if this is exclusive to other parts of the world- in the US, I think it's illegal in every state to leave your children alone.

There was a link over the summer about a British couple who was vacationing in Florida and left their young kids in a hotel room. The boy went looking for his parents, and CPS stepped in. I believe they jailed the couple overnight and let them go later with charges dropped. Money talks.

However, the point of my post was that even though questionable about how safe and/or successful the practice is, child-minding services seem to be common in Europe, and the more successful the parents, the more they're relied on.

Apparently the McCanns went to Portugal with the idea they could use a child-minding service. It wasn't available because the resort is too spread out, and besides, the McCanns weren't actually staying inside the resort anyway. Instead of taking a safe and positive step forward and hiring a nanny or using the creche, they decided to do their own child-minding, at least the night that Maddie disappeared. Maybe the results were tragic- maybe she was abducted. Or maybe the McCanns have even used the Leaving the Children Alone theme to deflect from a much larger, more criminal element- hurting Maddie and covering up her death by saying she was kidnapped.

a) By leaving the children (which may or may not have included Madeleine depending on whether you believe her parents harmed her), they put them in danger of accident, death and abduction.
b) That's neglect. In the US, you would be punished for it and probably have your children taken away.
c) In Portugal and the UK, if you were a "welfare" parent and did the same thing, you would be punished for it and probably have your children taken away.
d) The McCanns may be charged for negligence at some point, but so far haven't.

I guess I have to agree with docwho and some of the others. We KNOW that the McCanns shouldn't have left their children alone, and we can argue up the wazoo whether they were right or wrong, depending on how you feel about what was normal for them. Most of us here at WS think they were wrong.

Getting hung up on the neglect issues is holding us back from discussing other things that, IMO, are more important.

 

[april4sky]

Hello L L & S,

it's not just resorts that offer baby listening services. Have a look at this link listing a number of hotels who offer the service in the UK. You may need to check individual hotel web sites to see if they set age limits.
[Source]

Some hotels in Ireland offering the same baby listening service.

[Burren Castle Hotel] Scroll down the page for info on the Burren Castle Hotel.

[Baltimore Habour Hotel]

[Grand Hotel Waterford]

Also at another link,
[Source]
"Baby Listening Services

Some hotels offer baby listening services for those parents who wish to stay in the hotel but possibly relax in the bar or eat a leisurely meal after the children are in bed.

These usually take the form of leaving your hotel room's telephone off the hook and the hotel receptionist will listen in and get a message to you if he/she hears that you child is awake. The alternative is to take your UK walk-about baby monitor downstairs with you, unfortunately however, due to the different radio wave bands that have been allocated to be used by different countries, interference is common. Add to this the frequent construction techniques used in much holiday accommodation, i.e. thick reinforced concrete walls and steel girders, and you may find reception is also a problem."

Hi blaize.
I knew baby "listening" services were widespread. And it's not just holiday resorts but Hotels offer this too.

It "doesn't" make it right but I think it may explain "why" the McCanns felt it was an ok thing to do.

It would be interesting to know from posters if this service is also offered in their particular country, or is it just a European thing.

Either way the "option" should no longer be an option anywhere. IMO

 

[CaliKid]

I agree, April. I think what happened to Madeleine should make resort owners take a good hard look at how unsafe this practice is and abolish it.

I also believe there needs to be a huge effort on the part of child-safety experts to educate the public about keeping a closer eye on their children when they're on holiday. Dining apart from your children and just leaving them in the room with a walkie-talkie is asking for trouble.

I agree with colomom and others who say that the McCanns should've stepped up to the plate early on and used their own "experience" to advocate for better supervision, but sadly they didn't.

 

[L L & S]

From Blaize's links:

Burren Castle Hotel

~~ clipped

Attractively furnished and decorated the hotel offers friendly service, good food and entertainment including its famous céilí. Other Amenities: Tennis. Mini golf. Wheelchair friendly. Baby listening. Facilities for the disabled. Facilities for children. Pets allowed.


Baltimore Harbour Hotel Ireland

~~clipped

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Babysitting Service Available:
Babysitting and baby listening services are available on request. Please ask at Reception and we will be happy to organise these facilities on your behalf.

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Grand Hotel in Waterford, Ireland

~~clipped

The 82 guestrooms are decorated with floral bedspreads and curtains, pale walls and oak furniture. All have tea and coffee making facilities, television, hair dryers, makeup mirrors and telephones. Baby-listening services and cots are free of charge, and babysitting can be arranged on request (fee).

EEEK!!

I keep reading the phrase "pedophile rings". I wonder how many people see the list of which rooms are being listened too .... and the exact times that the parents are to be "out". It just makes it too easy for someone to take advantage of these situations. I wonder if hotels/resorts have established policy about just how many employees are privy to this information.

 

[april4sky]

I looked up resorts with child-minding services on the web and there are a lot. While not all parents leave their children in their rooms, it seems to be a very familiar practice among the vacationers-with-money crowd in Europe. All of the following advertise child-minding services.

http://www.interhome.us/Holiday house/Ireland/South East/Courtown/J3440200.htm

http://skiing.drive-alive.co.uk/les-arcs.htm

http://www.thomson.co.uk/editorial/...-doubles-number-of-luxury-ski-properties.html

http://www.travelideas.net/hotels/Bali/Ubud_Area/Anahata_Villas_Spa_Resort

http://www.interhome.com.au/Holiday...Valais/Lötschental - Lötschberg/C3917660B.htm

http://skiing.drive-alive.co.uk/la-plagne.htm

Etc.

The following is from a blog called Tabula Rasa, and about halfway down a post is devoted to Madeleine entitled "This isn't going to have a happy ending". It was a very interesting read about the way people who live in Europe view holidays and taking children with them- extremely casual.

http://www.dragonsmind.co.uk/?m=200705

From it:
Most child-minding services outside of using the creche consist of walkie-talkies with the talk button taped down, having limited range and giving poor reception.

Creche service for your children at night may or may not be allowed depending on where you're dining.

Taking a child out to eat with you is discouraged.

There usually isn't room service of any kind of quality for the adults to eat in.

He finishes with: The thing is that we weren’t the only ones who were “negligent parents” leaving their kiddies in their room - just about all the other parents in the resort were doing the same. I sincerely doubt the McCanns were the only ones at their resort doing so either. We used to come down to the bar, have a small beer/glass of wine and join other parents and discuss, once again, how nice it was to be able to come on holiday to such a child friendly place and what good facilities they had to cater for families and how, as much as we absolutely adored our sprogs, it was still nice to be able to sit down for a little while without them and enjoy a drink, a meal and some adult company.

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for the McCanns, I'm just stating that it looks like it's done differently in Europe. Even though I would never leave my children alone nor know anyone else who would either, I think we need to get over this Leaving Kids Alone issue and move on.

I agree Calikid.

I'm not advocating either, just trying to understand the "why"

If nothing else comes from Madeleine's sad case I pray that the "listening" service is well and truly scrapped.

 

[april4sky]

I agree, April. I think what happened to Madeleine should make resort owners take a good hard look at how unsafe this practice is and abolish it.

I hope your right Calikid because this should be one hell of a wake up call.

In fact the law should step in to make the practice illegal.

 

[L L & S]

I agree Calikid.

I'm not advocating either, just trying to understand the "why"

If nothing else comes from Madeleine's sad case I pray that the "listening" service is well and truly scrapped.[/quote]

I absolutely agree!!