Mark Warner Resort Childcare Information

[blaize]

I'm trying not to get irritated here, but this is what I think:

Unless the Mark Warner resort people forced the McCann's out of their apartment every night at dinner, this comes down to a bad personal choice these parents made more than one time. By admitting that they left the children alone multiple nights, they don't have a legal leg to stand on in suing the resort for their own problems.

I disagree that a "precedent" set at that resort or any other lets them off the hook at all.

<Respectfully Snipped>
"Listening" at a door is not the same thing as "parenting" a child. They cannot shove the responsibility off so easily as that.

Hello ThoughtFox,

the purpose is starting this thread was to demonstrate that baby listening services are offered on European holday & hotel breaks regularly. Whether or not parents avail of the service is up to them but this thread is not about "letting anyone off the hook" for making a poor decision. You'll have noticed that most people posting are appalled by the idea of leaving babies & small children alone is a hotel room or apartment. The legal discussion occurred because people were looking for a way to stop the practice.

 

[L L & S]

Hello ThoughtFox,

the purpose is starting this thread was to demonstrate that baby listening services are offered on European holday & hotel breaks regularly. Whether or not parents avail of the service is up to them but this thread is not about "letting anyone off the hook" for making a poor decision. You'll have noticed that most people posting are appalled by the idea of leaving babies & small children alone is a hotel room or apartment. The legal discussion occurred because people were looking for a way to stop the practice.

That's pretty much it right there. I'm not even addressing G and K and their friends all leaving their kids alone in their rooms. I agree that that was universally stupid, obviously.

What fascinates me is that this most certainly is a common practice in many countries. That really blows me away. Could this practice over the years be what has fed these pedophile rings that we constantly read about and refer to?

Great thread Blaize, and great discussion everyone. I must head to bed. I hope we get a lot more opinions tomorrow.

This topic has just got me all :banghead: Not so much G and K but the whole rest of the world. I have my own feelings about G and K and I'll share those on another thread.

Good night my friends.

 

[blaize]

It sounds as if this is exclusive to other parts of the world- in the US, I think it's illegal in every state to leave your children alone.

[Respectfully Snipped]

However, the point of my post was that even though questionable about how safe and/or successful the practice is, child-minding services seem to be common in Europe, and the more successful the parents, the more they're relied on.

Apparently the McCanns went to Portugal with the idea they could use a child-minding service. It wasn't available because the resort is too spread out, and besides, the McCanns weren't actually staying inside the resort anyway. Instead of taking a safe and positive step forward and hiring a nanny or using the creche, they decided to do their own child-minding, at least the night that Maddie disappeared. Maybe the results were tragic- maybe she was abducted. Or maybe the McCanns have even used the Leaving the Children Alone theme to deflect from a much larger, more criminal element- hurting Maddie and covering up her death by saying she was kidnapped.

[Respectfully Snipped]

I guess I have to agree with docwho and some of the others. We KNOW that the McCanns shouldn't have left their children alone, and we can argue up the wazoo whether they were right or wrong, depending on how you feel about what was normal for them. Most of us here at WS think they were wrong.

Getting hung up on the neglect issues is holding us back from discussing other things that, IMO, are more important.

Hello CaliKid,

absolutely, most people accept that the children should not have been left alone but I think it's an issue people feel the need to discuss in an attempt to understand the broader cultural, economic & social implications of the case discussion.

 

[L L & S]

~~respectfully snipped

Getting hung up on the neglect issues is holding us back from discussing other things that, IMO, are more important.

Then with all due respect and I really mean that... don't come to this thread. There are many others. We happen to be discussing the OTHER COUNTRIES of the world and how this baby listening thing is, in our opinions, WRONG! I find the topic fascinating and would like to continue the conversation with others who would like to know about this.

I hope I didn't offend you. I do not mean to. I am typing with a smile on my face and a peaceful heart. Thanks for reading this.

Maybe tomorrow there will be some REAL NEWS to discuss. Until there is.... I am happy following this conversation/discussion.

Again.. thanks for reading this. LOL.. I really should go to bed now.

A peaceful night to you all.

 

[Shazza]

Hello CaliKid,

absolutely, most people accept that the children should not have been left alone but I think it's an issue people feel the need to discuss in an attempt to understand the broader cultural, economic & social implications of the case discussion.

It is illegal to leave your children alone in Australia.
I have amended this in the next post, sorry, I should have provided a link.

 

[Shazza]

Hello CaliKid,

absolutely, most people accept that the children should not have been left alone but I think it's an issue people feel the need to discuss in an attempt to understand the broader cultural, economic & social implications of the case discussion.

This is what is said about leaving children alone in Australia.
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=305&id=1666

 

[narlacat]

This is what is said about leaving children alone in Australia.
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=305&id=1666

From that link:

<<There is no actual law that states at what age children can or cannot be left alone>>

Doesn't sound like it is illegal to me.

But will check that out more, that is just one link...I wasn't sure where our laws were at concerning leaving kids alone at what age.

 

[Shazza]

From that link:

<<There is no actual law that states at what age children can or cannot be left alone>>

Doesn't sound like it is illegal to me.

But will check that out more, that is just one link...I wasn't sure where our laws were at concerning leaving kids alone at what age.

This is a snippet from the same link.

While different societies have different customs, in Australia there is a legal obligation for parents to make sure that their children are properly looked after.

I did the bolding, it speaks for itself.

 

[narlacat]

This is a snippet from the same link.

While different societies have different customs, in Australia there is a legal obligation for parents to make sure that their children are properly looked after.

I did the bolding, it speaks for itself.

What is that legal obligation?

 

[Shazza]

What is that legal obligation?

Look it up in a dictionary what the words means.

 

[narlacat]

From link-
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=305&id=1666


What does the law say in Australia?

• There is no actual law that states at what age children can or cannot be left alone, but the law is clear about the responsibility of parents to look after their children.

 

[Shazza]

From link-
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=305&id=1666


What does the law say in Australia?

• There is no actual law that states at what age children can or cannot be left alone, but the law is clear about the responsibility of parents to look after their children.

Keep reading that link as I copied and pasted that snippet from there, then you can decide how you decipher what a legal obligation for parents to make sure that their children are properly looked after means.

 

[AfterMidnight]

EEEK!!

I keep reading the phrase "pedophile rings". I wonder how many people see the list of which rooms are being listened too .... and the exact times that the parents are to be "out". It just makes it too easy for someone to take advantage of these situations. I wonder if hotels/resorts have established policy about just how many employees are privy to this information.
__________________

Exactly, L L & S, this has been one of my concerns with the employees of the Tapas Bar from the beginning. They seemed to be watching the McCann party very closely, keeping tabs if you will.

 

[narlacat]

EEEK!!

I keep reading the phrase "pedophile rings". I wonder how many people see the list of which rooms are being listened too .... and the exact times that the parents are to be "out". It just makes it too easy for someone to take advantage of these situations. I wonder if hotels/resorts have established policy about just how many employees are privy to this information.
__________________

Exactly, L L & S, this has been one of my concerns with the employees of the Tapas Bar from the beginning. They seemed to be watching the McCann party very closely, keeping tabs if you will.

Scary!! -way too easy.

 

[L L & S]

EEEK!!

I keep reading the phrase "pedophile rings". I wonder how many people see the list of which rooms are being listened too .... and the exact times that the parents are to be "out". It just makes it too easy for someone to take advantage of these situations. I wonder if hotels/resorts have established policy about just how many employees are privy to this information.
__________________

Exactly, L L & S, this has been one of my concerns with the employees of the Tapas Bar from the beginning. They seemed to be watching the McCann party very closely, keeping tabs if you will.

LOL, I"m never gonna get to bed... The staff at Tapas probably knew they had kids. They also knew (possibly) that they are not using the listening service just taking turns checking the children. (maybe the Tapas was completely out of range for that service. It's not exactly right next door)

They would also know just how many bottles of wine really went around the table and who was smashed and who wasn't. Oh goodness, I've begun a conspiracy theory. Purely speculation. I don't know what was going through their heads. We'll find out someday hopefully.

But this exploration of how things are done in other countries is a lot of fun to me. Some of the stuff just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I long to travel.

 

[narlacat]

Just a quick look at where Australia is at with their laws re: leaving kids alone.
Will find out more, but did find out it is illegal to leave them in the car.

http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/safety_in_the_car.html

 

[ThoughtFox]

Hello ThoughtFox,

the purpose is starting this thread was to demonstrate that baby listening services are offered on European holday & hotel breaks regularly. Whether or not parents avail of the service is up to them but this thread is not about "letting anyone off the hook" for making a poor decision. You'll have noticed that most people posting are appalled by the idea of leaving babies & small children alone is a hotel room or apartment. The legal discussion occurred because people were looking for a way to stop the practice.

hmmmm - well, I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss:

"Mark Warner Resort Childcare Information"

and that's what I posted.

My point is that childcare was available and they didn't use it. Other parents had babysitters on that night, therefore you cannot say that "everyone" else was just having their children checked on by nannies in hallways.

If people think others should "get over it" that is their opinion.

Since I didn't understand this the purpose of this thread, and since I don't intend to "get over" my point of view, I'll just say goodbye to this topic.

I learned alot, believe me.

 

[Shazza]

hmmmm - well, I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss:

"Mark Warner Resort Childcare Information"

and that's what I posted.

My point is that childcare was available and they didn't use it. Other parents had babysitters on that night, therefore you cannot say that "everyone" else was just having their children checked on by nannies in hallways.

If people think others should "get over it" that is their opinion.

Since I didn't understand this the purpose of this thread, and since I don't intend to "get over" my point of view, I'll just say goodbye to this topic.

I learned alot, believe me.

Sorry for my part in getting off topic ThoughtFox, didnt realise.

 

[CaliKid]

Thoughtfox and others, I too believe that the McCanns should not have left their children alone night after night to go out and eat/drink with their friends. I have stated so many times. If you want, you may go look at many of my previous posts going way back to June to see how I feel.

The information I supplied was put there for a reason. In Europe, especially at high-priced holiday resorts, it's normal for child-minding services to be offered as part of the vacation package or purchased for an extra fee, just like Mark Warner did.

I also happen to believe this is a very bad idea because it really doesn't keep the children as safe as it sounds. There would be a huge opportunity for pedophiles to find a way to target people who have children being left alone in hotel rooms simply by watching who is carrying a walkie talkie.

My views in suggesting we "get over it" have nothing to do with how right or wrong the McCanns were. IMO, they were wrong.

From everything we've seen, the McCanns left their children every night of their vacation to go out with their friends.
If the McCanns didn't hurt Madeleine, they left her and the twins that night, and she was abducted.
If they did hurt Madeleine, they left the twins alone on May 3.

But I do feel the Leaving Kids Alone issue is holiding many back from looking at the larger picture. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[april4sky]

.

The information I supplied was put there for a reason. In Europe, especially at high-priced holiday resorts, it's normal for child-minding services to be offered as part of the vacation package or purchased for an extra fee, just like Mark Warner did.

I also happen to believe this is a very bad idea because it really doesn't keep the children as safe as it sounds. There would be a huge opportunity for pedophiles to find a way to target people who have children being left alone in hotel rooms simply by watching who is carrying a walkie talkie.

You didn't offend me Calikid. This thread has taught me a lot.

I know it had crossed my mind before about baby listening services but it was only after reading this thread that I thought to do a search of holiday resorts and hotels. I'm shocked just how widespread it is.

It does seem to be Europe where it's often the "norm"
I couldn't find any in Australia and I assume from posters here it doesn't happen in the US.

It needed a light shining on it!!! Hopefully there will be moves to make it illegal.