Maui Hawaii Wildfires, 97 dead, Aug 2023

[anneg]

I am having so many conflicting emotions about this.

View attachment 441383

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/us/maui-wildfire-mourning/index.html

From the article (BBM):
With the Maui County Fire Department stretched painfully thin and winds kicking up once again, some residents around Kula are using sprinklers, hoping to protect their homes from another round of flames.

Volunteer first responders were even out trying to knock down hotspots and flare-ups with bottled water.

“There’s a smoldering pit over there, and all it needs is a good wind to get it going,” explained Merrill Kalopodes, who flew in from Oahu to help.

“It started off with just a little smoke and then we said, ‘OK, let’s get some water, haul it over there.’ And then by the time we got over there, it started flaming already.”

He and others had cases and jugs of water ready to pour on the sooty, smoky brush, as helicopters dumped larger loads gathered from swimming pools or ponds.

 

[Cryptic]

The saddest part about this, is that older mobile home parks, homes for elderly, low income, are wiped out. Developers are probably already making deals.

I think the developer proposals can be dialed way down by new zoning regulations. Maybe....

For the next 10 years, Lahaina is zoned as follows:

- New construction in Lahaina can only exceed the square footage of the previous structure by 33% (cut down on "pimp my lot" starter mansions).

- New construction must match the previous structure's residential lay out. A single occupancy home, must be replaced by a single occupancy home, a duplex by a duplex and an apartment building with "X" units by an apartment building with "X" number of units.

- Duplexes, triplexes and apartment complexes must rented on the open market (or other regulation designed to prevent developers from creatively calling something a "duplex" when it is in fact, re-built as a single occupancy home).

 

[mickey2942]

I think the developer proposals can be dialed way down by new zoning regulations. Maybe....

For the next 10 years, Lahaina is zoned as follows:

- New construction in Lahaina can only exceed the square footage of the previous structure by 33% (cut down on "pimp my lot" starter mansions).

- New construction must match the previous structure's residential lay out. A single occupancy home, must be replaced by a single occupancy home, a duplex by a duplex and an apartment building with "X" units by an apartment building with "X" number of units.

- Duplexes, triplexes and apartment complexes must rented on the open market (or other regulation designed to prevent developers from creatively calling something a "duplex" when it is in fact, re-built as a single occupancy home).

I doubt that it will make much difference to someone on a fixed income, who has lost everything. Social Security benefits for some elderly people is less than $1,000 a month. They have also lost their community of friends in their neighborhood. They all scatter, some go live with their kids, or make other arrangements, and after a year, just don't want to move back to a new place. Imagine being 85 or so in this situation. It is far different from being 35.

I worked with a lot of people after Wilma, and also Hurricane Katrina. They were ready to just find some place else to go. Because it wasn't just their house and stuff that was gone, it was their entire fragile web of support by their community. A neighbor, who took them grocery shopping, another one who shared their internet. One who played bocce ball...

 

[JerseyGirl]

Maui officials defend decision to not use warning sirens: Live updates

Investigations into the cause of the Maui wildfire blazes are underway

www.independent.co.uk

At least 111 people have died as a result of the fast-moving Maui wildfires that caused widespread destruction in the town of Lahaina.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you so much for updating the thread title continuously, @JerseyGirl. It's so appreciated.

 

[mickey2942]

Kaleo Manuel, Maui water official, faces scrutiny over fire response

Manuel, an official at the Hawaii Commission on Water Resource Management, has been reassigned to another role while investigations are ongoing.

www.newsweek.com

State Water Official Who Delayed Water Release Has Been Reassigned

The state Department of Land and Natural Resources said late Wednesday that a top deputy on the water commission has been transferred to another position following news reports that he declined to release water to fill reservoirs in the Lahaina area until the fire was well underway and it was...

www.civilbeat.org

Predicted this in the beginning of the thread. A person who literally knew nothing about wildfires, was in charge of whether or not firefighters could have water to fight this fire.

 

[Gemmie]

Unbelievable that TV, social media, and phone alerts were sent out when the electrical grid was down, fibre optics was down, power poles were down. Sirens, that do not mean evacuate, were not used even though they were touted as the best in the world alert system. Alert to what? A tidal wave? An alert to a tidal wave does not mean evacuate because some tidal alerts are not big waves?

The sirens were not intended to be used for fire storms. We know that today.

I'm curious. Were the sirens located at the top of poles in the neighbourhood? During an electrical outage and a fire? Temperatures that roasted cars? This seems more like a mismanagement issue than a climate change issue.

You called it with mismanagement, @otto.

Hawaii’s top power utility accused of years of mismanagement before the deadly wildfires​

Hawaii’s biggest power utility faces growing scrutiny for the role it might have played in the deadliest wildfire in modern American history, including detailed allegations in a lawsuit filed Wednesday that it was negligent and knowingly failed to take proper action to prevent catastrophe.

[...]

“Hawaiian Electric is not just responsible and they weren’t just negligent,” said Mikal Watts, a lead attorney on the case. “They were grossly negligent by making conscious decisions to delay grid modernization projects that would have prevented this very tragedy.”

More at: Hawaii’s top power utility accused of years of mismanagement before the deadly wildfires

 

[airportwoman]

The saddest part about this, is that older mobile home parks, homes for elderly, low income, are wiped out. Developers are probably already making deals.

The conspiracy theorists are having a field day with this, saying that the fires were deliberately set for this reason.

 

[mickey2942]

The conspiracy theorists are having a field day with this, saying that the fires were deliberately set for this reason.

I don't know. But definitely ask questions about why there wasn't more effective response.

 

[whitelilac]

"A security camera captured a bright flash in the woods that may have been a tree falling on a power line on August 7, one day before the fire was reported."
this MAY be a source of the first fires. Aug 7.
ABC news

 

[otto]

You called it with mismanagement, @otto.

Hawaii’s top power utility accused of years of mismanagement before the deadly wildfires​

Hawaii’s biggest power utility faces growing scrutiny for the role it might have played in the deadliest wildfire in modern American history, including detailed allegations in a lawsuit filed Wednesday that it was negligent and knowingly failed to take proper action to prevent catastrophe.

[...]

“Hawaiian Electric is not just responsible and they weren’t just negligent,” said Mikal Watts, a lead attorney on the case. “They were grossly negligent by making conscious decisions to delay grid modernization projects that would have prevented this very tragedy.”

More at: Hawaii’s top power utility accused of years of mismanagement before the deadly wildfires

Very bad news for Hawaiian Electric! Paying generous investment dividends rather than upgrading infrastructure - no excuse for it. Smells like corruption.

 

[whitelilac]

I didn't even know there was a fire up in Olinda. There is (was?) a beautiful pine forest there. Also eucalyptus groves going up the road. (and in spring, the flowering jacarandas too)
Also not far from the town of Makawao.

• Olinda fire: Now 85% contained with an estimated 1,081 acres burned. There are no active threats at this time (as of 9 p.m. on 8.16.23).

Maui wildfire disaster updates for Aug. 17: FEMA opens Disaster Recovery Center | Maui Now

Maui Wildfire Disaster Updates for Monday Aug. 17 are posted: HERE. Maui residents affected by the recent wildfires can apply for federal disaster assistance at a joint Disaster Recovery Center that has opened in Kahului, and will continue daily from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. at the University of Hawaiʻi...

mauinow.com

 

[IceIce9]

I was listening to a Maui update today on the radio and they were encouraging tourists to visit as soon as possible. They said there are plenty of flights available, airfare is low, and Maui needs tourism dollars more than ever now.

 

[otto]

I was listening to a Maui update today on the radio and they were encouraging tourists to visit as soon as possible. They said there are plenty of flights available, airfare is low, and Maui needs tourism dollars more than ever now.

Other towns are one downed power pole away from a similar disaster. Perhaps Maui should build a safe place before putting other lives at risk.

"The lawsuit filed Wednesday contends that since 2017, as Maui’s fire risks increased, Hawaiian Electric nonetheless paid out tens of millions in increased payments to shareholders every year.

“This is the result of conscious indifference by a corporation to hold on to its money as opposed to protecting its customers and the general public,” Watts alleged."​

same link as above

 

[mickey2942]

P

I was listening to a Maui update today on the radio and they were encouraging tourists to visit as soon as possible. They said there are plenty of flights available, airfare is low, and Maui needs tourism dollars more than ever now.

Interesting. Because I read that local people need housing, possibly in tourist areas. And tourists would be displacing residents.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/hawaii-travel-plans-fires/index.html

 

[IceIce9]

P

Interesting. Because I read that local people need housing, possibly in tourist areas. And tourists would be displacing residents.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/hawaii-travel-plans-fires/index.html

I was surprised too. The same update played an hour later and I listened again to make sure I had heard correctly.

 

[IceIce9]

“People forget real quick right now, how many local businesses shut down during Covid,” said Daniel Kalahiki, who operates a food truck in Wailuku on Maui, east of Lahaina. The island needs to heal and the disaster areas are far from recovered, he said, but the tourist-go-home messaging is irresponsible and harmful.

“No matter what, the rest of Maui has to keep going on,” said Mr. Kalahiki, 52. “The island has already been shot in the chest. Are you going to stab us in the heart also?

After Maui Wildfires, Travelers Ask: Would a Trip Help or Hurt?

Residents and travelers are grappling with the propriety of visiting Maui, the epicenter of last week’s wildfires but an island heavily reliant on tourist dollars.

www.nytimes.com

 

[mickey2942]

I was surprised too. The same update played an hour later and I listened again to make sure I had heard correctly.

Maui is not a very big island, but I remember when we went there, our goal was just to relax, lay on the beach, my husband played golf every day, it was a conference, so of course, he attended the conference meeting in the morning, played golf with his buddies, another education at end of day. What a joke.

So, we were staying on the east side, away from the fire. I think it was an all inclusive resort. So, we didn't leave anyway. Maybe they want people to go to those resorts, but stay away from affected area.

 

[airportwoman]

I was listening to a Maui update today on the radio and they were encouraging tourists to visit as soon as possible. They said there are plenty of flights available, airfare is low, and Maui needs tourism dollars more than ever now.

Wait. I thought they wanted people out of there so the aid workers can do their jobs?

 

[10ofRods]

From the article (BBM):
With the Maui County Fire Department stretched painfully thin and winds kicking up once again, some residents around Kula are using sprinklers, hoping to protect their homes from another round of flames.

Volunteer first responders were even out trying to knock down hotspots and flare-ups with bottled water.

“There’s a smoldering pit over there, and all it needs is a good wind to get it going,” explained Merrill Kalopodes, who flew in from Oahu to help.

“It started off with just a little smoke and then we said, ‘OK, let’s get some water, haul it over there.’ And then by the time we got over there, it started flaming already.”

He and others had cases and jugs of water ready to pour on the sooty, smoky brush, as helicopters dumped larger loads gathered from swimming pools or ponds.

Firefighting with bottled water?

I hope that's enough.