Max's back injuries

[K_Z]

CG needs to recall the allegations of "foul play" in regard to Max's injury were based on the ER doctor's misdiagnosis of his condition as "suffocation". When later tests were conducted, the real cause was determined to have been trauma to his brain stem.

It was very poor judgement on the ER doc's part, an erroneous accusation that may have lead to RZ's murder.

Sometimes I feel, when this is over and if RZ's death is determined to be murder, someone should seek judgement against that ER doc. His offhand diagnosis and accusations may have killed someone. It would be terrible if he were allowed to continue practicing and cause that kind of tragedy again.
MOO

Actually, I'm still inclined to cut Brad Peterson a little bit of slack until I see more evidence of what he ACTUALLY told the family, and what exactly he documented in Max's records.

I find it hard (but not impossible) to believe that he said what Dina has said he told her. Brad Peterson and Rady hospital have been silent on the issue, and Dina did not seek out Brad Peterson (OR HIS DOCUMENTATION IN MAX'S RECORDS) to bolster her claims of assault when she appealed to reopen Max's case. Now, that is really curious. He is the only physician who cared for Max who has been named who appears to even slightly support Dina's version of events-- and she chose to ignore him. Curious.

So, I believe that this is partly because he didn't say what she says he did-- and he wouldn't corroborate her version of events. (And the hospital lawyers likely told him to stay silent and out of the media.) Still, she has access to Max's records, and if there were something there, I believe she would have photocopied it and plastered it everywhere she could. Certainly on her Max website-- along with ICU pics and the EMS run report. Certainly in her appeals to authorities. It simply doesn't exist. That's my opinion. There is little to nothing in Max's records to back up these allegations, imo. She would have used it by now, if it existed.

I still believe a professional physician pediatric intensivist would not say something of that nature-- particularly that soon in the admission. My thoughts lean toward (as I have posted before) the situation that Dina misinterpreted what he said in the context of explaining global hypoxic encephalopathy-- perhaps misinterpreted several conversations. She was in crisis. He may have used "suffocation" as an example-- with more explanations. From what Dina has displayed publicly of her personality, she would have been, imo, grilling the docs with questions (as she should have). This wasn't a case of "message delivered by doc, family receives quietly". She would have been heartbroken, devastated, and raging furious all at once. Many, many conversations were had with Dina and Jonah, I'm sure.

One thing is certain-- Max's fall and 30 min cardiac arrest would never have been presented to Dina and Jonah as "a heart attack" and then glossed over in favor of some wild theory of assault. No reputable doctor would do this.

I am confident Max had a thorough MRI within minutes to hours of his admission to Rady. That MRI would have demonstrated the high spinal cord injury-- which, according to my expert, would have been evident within 2 to 12 hours post injury on the MRI. The injury would have continued to evolve over time, and I'm sure Max didn't have only one MRI. Dina knew within hours what Max's injuries were. Jonah did, also. And it seems from lots of comments that Howard Luber (internal med doc and friend) may have come to Coronado to help Jonah understand what the docs were telling them, and for emotional support.

They all knew how bad it was for Max, very, very soon after admission. Any claims to the contrary are steeped in denial, or attempted manipulation of the public, imo.

 

[Betty P]

The younger sister.

JMO

If anyone wanted to interview RZ's sister, they could do so. Nothing prevented them from it then or now. How do you know they haven't interviewed her already?

Dina's rage against Rebecca's surviving sister is disturbing. I hope the Zahau family keeps a close eye on Z and protects her.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

If anyone wanted to interview RZ's sister, they could do so. Nothing prevented them from it then or now. How do you know they haven't interviewed her already?

Dina's rage against Rebecca's surviving sister is disturbing. I hope the Zahau family keeps a close eye on Z and protects her.

I think having her testify "under oath" is what Dina is looking for.

Dina only wants to know what happened to her only son..where have you seen "Dina's rage against Rebecca's surviving sister? I have only heard her say that she was there and may know something. I've seen no rage.

 

[K_Z]

If anyone wanted to interview RZ's sister, they could do so. Nothing prevented them from it then or now. How do you know they haven't interviewed her already?

Dina's rage against Rebecca's surviving sister is disturbing. I hope the Zahau family keeps a close eye on Z and protects her.

I think Anne Bremner will surface to vigorously protect XZ from any legal gymnastics, if and when they occur. This is a minor child.

And I agree that it is disturbing to see someone with such a compulsive public vendetta against a child and a dead (imo- sadistically murdered) woman. I've heard of grief induced psychosis-- maybe that explains things.

 

[Betty P]

I think having her testify "under oath" is what Dina is looking for.

Dina only wants to know what happened to her only son..where have you seen "Dina's rage against Rebecca's surviving sister? I have only heard her say that she was there and may know something. I've seen no rage.

Any good detective could interview Rebecca's sister and determine if they think she's hiding something. They could also ask her to take a lie detector test. The fact that they haven't pursued Z means they probably have interviewed her and determined she was telling the truth.

Dina's campaign to sue the Zahau family into bankruptcy certainly seems more a campaign of heartless revenge than an attempt to get more information. If so, its apparent Dina needs to get psychiatric counseling to help her deal with her misplaced and inappropriate anger.

MOO

 

[*Lash*]

Rebecca's death was investigated by SDSO, and other agencies. I completely agree with their finding of suicide. I find the evidence overwhelmingly supports that.

Max's death was investigated by CDO. The day after the accident, doctors suspected foul play and the "main suspect" committed suicide before Child Protective Services could question her, and the detective on the case could question her. So, no, I don't agree with their findings because the only adult there killed herself before she could be questioned further.

JMO

With all due respect, I disagree with statements,"COPD investigated Max's death, SDSO and other agencies investigated Rebecca's death." I agree Det. Thomas Adkins of COPD investigated Max's death. However, both cases when further investigated included 'other' agencies. Max's autopsy was performed by the SDSO ME's office. The same as Rebecca's autopsy. It appears from Dina's letter to COPD the diagram of Max's fall was prepared by the DA's office and not COPD. Dina herself groups SDSO and Sheriff Gore in Max's investigation in her recent letter to COPD. Dina says she received letters stating that the investigation into Max's death was jointly conducted by the Sheriff's Department and the Coronado Police Department.

The only agency missing from Max's investigation that differs from Rebecca's appears to be the Special Agents from the DOJ office. The final report may have been signed by COPD, but 'other' agencies were involved in Max's investigation.

Why is it important to exclude 'other' agencies from Max's investigation? A signature on a final report is just that, a signature. It does not represent all agencies involved in the conclusion of that final report. Now a signature becomes important when you need a place to start a lawsuit. Dina would need to begin with COPD. However, it does not exclude the fact that 'other' agencies were involved in Max's death investigation. Maybe that's why it has been important to separate the agencies involved in Max's and Rebecca's death investigations. Dina needs to start with COPD to pursue any litigation. In my opinion, I see quite a bit of spinning stories. I also tend to believe it is probably easier to go up against a smaller COPD rather than the larger SDSO.

Dina's response to COPD

---snip
According to Commander Lawton in his telephone call with me, you did not consult with nor include in your review panel Dr. Gomez, with whom you contracted in your initial investigation to provide you biomechanical expertise. In fact, his "analysis" provided the basis for the diagram released at the September 2,2011 press conference (a diagram I note that while released at the press conference, predated Dr. Gomez's written report by three weeks, and which diagram was not even prepared by Dr. Gomez but by someone at the District Attorney's office) and which diagram Sheriff Gore announced depicted the COPD's conclusion as to how Max's "accident" occurred. Dr. Gomez's "analysis" also purportedly provided the primary basis for the conclusions of the medical examiner, Dr. Jonathan Lucas, as I was stated to me by Dr. Lucas at a private debriefing with me preceding the press conference.

---snip
What I will say to you is that LEGITIMATE science doesn't lie. I further reference the two attached letters I received in August, 2011, one from you and one from Sheriff Gore. You assured me: "A conclusion in both cases will not be reached until all the evidence can be completely examined and evaluated", and that the investigation into Max's death was being jointly conducted by the Sheriff's Department and the Coronado Police Department. Sheriff Gore echoed that fact, and stated "'We are sharing files and sharing information, so that what their investigators know; we know - and vice versa. This is a joint effort - with a cornmon professional commitment; we are determined to find the truth - using our skill, judgment, experience, and expertise. In this sense, we treat your loss as our loss....We will follow every lead and every clue. I can assure you that we will not reach conclusions until we are satisfied to an evidentiary certainty of what happened that terrible day".

---snip
I truly believed in the COPD, the SDSD, and the investigatory processes of Law Enforcement and the Medical Examiner's Office. I believed your letters to me were sincere, heartfelt, and true. It now appears my trust was decidedly misplaced, and neither you nor Sheriff Gore have honored your commitments to me. Not only have you failed to properly investigate and pursue justice both in the original investigation and in considering my request to reopen the case, but you have made glaring mistakes - including but not limited to the items I have already addressed in this letter, but also among other things:

http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

 

[inthedark14]

So if that was the case, why didn't LE state that MS death was the result of "foul play" or "death at the hands of another"? If you look at instances when a murderer has killed themselves due to their actions, it's always stated WHO they killed. The man this summer who killed a mother and her oldest daughter(IIRC) and then committed suicide when the police closed in. Please show us a case where someone committed suicide after murdering someone and LE placed no blame on that person, never called the death of the person they killed suspicious, or called it an accident.

Always MOO

Any good detective could interview Rebecca's sister and determine if they think she's hiding something. They could also ask her to take a lie detector test. The fact that they haven't pursued Z means they probably have interviewed her and determined she was telling the truth.

Dina's campaign to sue the Zahau family into bankruptcy certainly seems more a campaign of heartless revenge than an attempt to get more information. If so, its apparent Dina needs to get psychiatric counseling to help her deal with her misplaced and inappropriate anger.

MOO

Actually, those detectives flew to MO to interview XZ. There are transcripts and possibly audio of this interview. I guess we'd need someone in the "know" to let us in on what they actually have. Of course, this is not "under oath" but since no one interviewed from the RZ case was interviewed "under oath" I would think the same standards would apply in that case as well, seeing how these two cases are so entwined.

 

[*Lash*]

According to Dr. Bove's report, he received and reviewed a CD containing audio of police interview with XZ as well as other video statements by XZ. There is also a CD containing an e-mail to Officer Adkins with a voice mail attachment from Rebecca.

Materials Received

The following materials have been received and reviewed:

• Medical records pertaining to Maxfield Shacknai
• Radiologic films of Maxfield Shacknai
• Floor plans for 1043 Ocean Boulevard, Coronado, California, dated March 16, 2011
• Color photographs (10) of Maxfield Shacknai’s injuries taken at the hospital
• Records from the Coronado Police Department and San Diego Police Department, Bates
numbered 1 to 351, and 366 to 499
• Diagrams of the incident scene prepared by the Coronado Police Department
• Color photograph (1) of the incident site with sketch prepared by Officer Erhard
• Report of Mark A. Gomez, Ph.D., (5 pages) including qualifications and fall kinematics diagram, dated September 19, 2011
• CD containing digital color photographs (10) of the incident scene, Bates numbered 136- 154; 158 to 165
• CD labeled “Photos of Scene After” containing digital color photographs (64), Bates numbered 167-181
• CD containing digital color photographs (27) of Maxfield Shacknai at the hospital, Bates numbered 215-277
• CD labeled “Audio of Voice Message by Rebecca” containing an e-mail to Officer Adkins with a voice mail attachment
• CD containing audio of police interview with Xena Zahau, Bates numbered 380 and 458
• CD labeled “Photos of House” containing digital color photographs (66), Bates
numbered 191-193
• CD containing digital color photographs (129) of the autopsy of Maxfield Shacknai,
Bates numbered 235-251
• CD labeled “Photos of Incident Reconstruction” containing digital color
photographs (75)
• CD labeled “Photos of House Measurements” containing digital color photographs (30)
• CD containing video, labeled “Video Interview of Xena Comments from another sister”
• CD containing video, labeled “Video of Xena Statement”
• CD containing video taken the date of the subject incident, labeled “Video of Foyer”
• CD containing video, labeled “Video of Incident Reconstruction”
• CD containing digital color photographs (187) from the San Diego Medical Examiner

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for that information, Lash. It appears both Coronado PD, SDSO and Dr. Bove have reviewed the recorded and videotaped interviews with Rebecca's sister and have concluded she is not a POI.

Since she's a minor and not considered a POI, she shouldn't be sleuthed here. Am I reading the rules correctly?

 

[arielilane]

Thanks for that information, Lash. It appears both Coronado PD, SDSO and Dr. Bove have reviewed the recorded and videotaped interviews with Rebecca's sister and have concluded she is not a POI.

Since she's a minor and not considered a POI, she shouldn't be sleuthed here. Am I reading the rules correctly?

You are correct about TOS. That's how I understand them. Thank you

 

[STS-135]

...remind me of the time when, while horsing around, I playfully dragged my sister about ten feet across our living room. It was the first time in our lives that we lived in a house with carpeted floors from wall to wall; and, although I should've probably known better by that age anyway, I honestly had no reason to believe that she would be injured as she was.

At first I thought she was screaming only to make me stop, and by the time I realized she was really screaming in pain and stopped, her back looked very much like Maxie's back. With some marks being more noticeable (deeper injuries) where the bones protuded the most. In other words, where the skin that was in contact with the carpet was exerting the most pressure.

I don't know if the same marks can in fact result from just sliding down a banister for only a foot or two as LE asserted, but I personally find it highly unlikely that so much damage could result in such a short slide. Did he also suffer any bone/muscle injuries on his back or only drag marks?

I also don't believe that the marks resulted from being pushed against the banister as someone once stated on - I believe - one of Dr. Phil's shows.

Having said this, I still have no clue as to how to fit this into my scenario.

 

[STS-135]

A rug was rolled up and removed during the RZ investigation. Where was the rug found? Was it tested? Were the findings dismissed because they did not fit in with Rebecca's case be it murder or suicide? In other words, what new light might the rug shed on Maxie's case?

I ask because the more I look at the injuries on his back, the more I believe that what we are looking at are carpet burns - just like those on my sister's back decades ago. What's your take?

 

[*Lash*]

A rug was rolled up and removed during the RZ investigation. Where was the rug found? Was it tested? Were the findings dismissed because they did not fit in with Rebecca's case be it murder or suicide? In other words, what new light might the rug shed on Maxie's case?

I ask because the more I look at the injuries on his back, the more I believe that what we are looking at are carpet burns - just like those on my sister's back decades ago. What's your take?

I remember seeing the video of investigators removing a roll of carpet from the house, yet a rug is not listed in the inventory of items in either of the search warrants for Max or Rebecca.

In my opinion, some of the injuries Max suffered may have occurred while EMS was attending to him and even some of the care he received upon his arrival at the hospital.

 

[Zinn]

A rug was rolled up and removed during the RZ investigation. Where was the rug found? Was it tested? Were the findings dismissed because they did not fit in with Rebecca's case be it murder or suicide? In other words, what new light might the rug shed on Maxie's case?

I ask because the more I look at the injuries on his back, the more I believe that what we are looking at are carpet burns - just like those on my sister's back decades ago. What's your take?

IIRC, a drop of blood was found on the carpet in the hallway, just outside of the room with the ropes, knives, overturned chair, etc. I believe they said they didn't test it because there was no evidence of anyone besides Rebecca in the house, and they assumed it was menstrual blood from Rebecca. I think they said they tested some blood evidence from somewhere, maybe the shower, determined it was from Rebecca, and then decided it wasn't necessary to test all blood at the scene.

As for Max's back, I haven't seen the photos, but I'm skeptical of the theory that he received injures by contacting the banister on the other side from where he fell.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[time]

<snip>
As for Max's back, I haven't seen the photos, but I'm skeptical of the theory that he received injures by contacting the banister on the other side from where he fell.

All of the above is just my opinion.

IIRC, those injuries, resembling a 7, looked like he may have fallen on the scooter.

 

[STS-135]

IIRC, those injuries, resembling a 7, looked like he may have fallen on the scooter.

Not necessarily... IMHO, the scooter fell on Maxie's back, causing "injury along the bony thoracic vertebrae Th1 thru Th12"... What I still can't figure out is how those carpet/rug burns occurred; but a 10-pound scooter falling on his back from that height would absolutely explain the injuries along his vertebrae...

 

[LoveAlways7]

What if some third person did, in fact, assault Max?

I would love anyone's opinion on ... if hypothetically, we say, Max was definitely hurt by a third party.

How, who, what, when, where, why?

The force that looks like was exerted on the "newel post" seems like a pretty forceful blow. I'm sure that's hard wood. How hard do you suppose you would have to hit it to cause those gauges and to so heavily imbed that paint in the scooter wheel?

Was someone in a rage?

 

[STS-135]

What if some third person did, in fact, assault Max?

I would love anyone's opinion on ... if hypothetically, we say, Max was definitely hurt by a third party.

How, who, what, when, where, why?

The force that looks like was exerted on the "newel post" seems like a pretty forceful blow. I'm sure that's hard wood. How hard do you suppose you would have to hit it to cause those gauges and to so heavily imbed that paint in the scooter wheel?

Was someone in a rage?

Those marks on the banister were all made by the scooter. The scooter then catapulted Maxie, and eventually bounced off poor Maxie's back and ultimately rested on his shin.

I have reviewed all the higg-res photos already available on both Maxie's injuries as well as the damage to the flared edge of the railing and will explain my take with photos and drawings, addressing even some of the mysteries on Dr. Bove's report.

I hold no expertise in failure analysis, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out how the indentations were made, in which direction the strikes took place, and by which components on the scooter, when you bother to go buy one and match the points of impact to the scooter and do even the most basic experimentation yourself.

Anyhow, if you are really here to try to find answers to how and why he fell, please consider carefully reading all the posts on the Scooter thread, or at a minimum those I've already thanked if you don't have the time to read all of them. The answers are all there.

My theory is posted there too, except I am now finding, it seems, that the scooter alone could've generated enough momentum that, when leveraged by the steerer tube, as evidenced by the damage on the edge of the newel post pointing to the chandelier, likely catapulted Maxie over the lower part of the banister even if he wasn't running.

He might've just been trying to lift it to put it on his right shoulder to take it downstairs when the accident happen. Their comgined COG was much higher than either of the so-called expertes so beautifully graphed and/or described! And 40-pound Maxie found himself at the other end of a long lever with a 7 pound scooter on the other end swinging wildly in a counter-clockwise direction (when viewed from the top), and a banister much lower than their combined COG where he in no doubt went over the top. The force of the swinging 7-pound scooter then damaging the top of the chandelier and knocking it down.

If LE had only taken the trouble to figure this out and explain to his Mother properly, it would've spared the Zahaus an unimaginable amount of grief and pain these last two years. I so feel for them and I'm trying to do everything I can to dispel all those implications made in your post.

In summary, and that was really the purpose of my reply, if someone is to blame for his death, it is his Parents for allowing the scooter in the house, let alone on the second-story hallway with such a low banister. :banghead:

 

[K_Z]

(Snipped)
In my opinion, some of the injuries Max suffered may have occurred while EMS was attending to him and even some of the care he received upon his arrival at the hospital.

I completely agree with this, and have posted in the past about this.

Max suffered a complete cardiac arrest at the scene, with aggressive resuscitation efforts by EMS. There were difficulties with stabilizing him, and EMS was unable to secure an airway, and I think they also had multiple attempts with intraosseous placement. All while conducting vigorous CPR/ ACLS, and bag-valve-mask ventilation in between intubation attempts, and all while manually stabilizing his c-spine. (And all of this with a large sagittal skull fracture.)

Then he was moved to a stretcher and transported to Coronado Sharp, with CPR and ACLS still in progress. At Sharp ER, he was removed from the ambulance and had more emergency procedures in the ER to stabilize him, secure an airway, provide IV/ IO access, as well as initial CT, IIRC.

At some early point in the Sharp ER, he regained a pulse. After that point, he was transported AGAIN back into an ambulance to Rady Children's, and then removed from the ambulance to either a Rady ER stretcher, or as a direct admit to ICU, where he was moved AGAIN to a hospital bed. In the early hours at Rady, he likely also had a CT and/ or MRI-- which means he was moved yet again. It's nearly impossible to say without seeing the medical records what condition the skin on his back was in on first admit to Coronado Sharp.

And while I believe very little that comes out of Dina Shacknai's mouth, I do remember a comment she made, or perhaps it was Judy Melinek's report, that indicated there was superficial epidermis transfer on the inside of the shirt Max had been wearing, in the area corresponding to the marks on his back. This makes sense to me, given the conditions of his fall, that a shearing force of some sort scraped along his spinous processes during the accident, or prior to his shirt being removed. Whether it happened in the fall, or when he was moved and treated during his cardiac arrest is anyone's guess.

My experience tells me his shirt was almost certainly cut to expose his chest early in the CPR/ ACLS process by the EMS crew, but probably wasn't fully removed at the mansion accident scene. (sleeves)

 

[STS-135]

What if some third person did, in fact, assault Max?

I would love anyone's opinion on ... if hypothetically, we say, Max was definitely hurt by a third party.

How, who, what, when, where, why?

The force that looks like was exerted on the "newel post" seems like a pretty forceful blow. I'm sure that's hard wood. How hard do you suppose you would have to hit it to cause those gauges and to so heavily imbed that paint in the scooter wheel?

Was someone in a rage?

LoveAlways7, I must add, because I can no longer edit my earlier reply, that what I meant to write was that due diligence by LE would've spared both, the Zahau family as well as Dina his Mother, an unimaginable amount of grief and pain these last two years. My apologies for the oversight. It was certainly not intentional.

You see, I've been there and lived it myself too, two years many fold. When I lost my Father to what I suspect was homicide and one of the three LE agencies involved in precious little Maxie's case quickly chalked it up to suicide - without even trying to explain how it happened, at least not in any way that made any sense to me - outright dismissing even obvious evidence.

In the absence of logical answers, my brain went bonkers, for years keeping me awake well into the night too, while my imagination ran wild trying to figure out just how either suicide or homicide could've happened. You have no idea what a deep, searing, maddening pain that was, and still is...

Good night to you and all fellow sleuths. And sweet dreams, Maxie. I pray that you still have Rebecca to play with and watch you while you sleep.