MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[Footwarrior]

Have the dispatcher tapes from the time of Freddie's arrest been released?

 

[Bravo]

C3,4 and 5 cause immediate death. So this injury was below that. Per CNN

 

[Nana]

Just like those misunderstood kids at Penn State who rioted after Joe Paterno was fired.

No..
No misunderstanding if its not yours don't touch it.
Burning and destroying is never a misunderstanding!

 

[gracehatter]

She damn sure better have evidence of murder before she holds a press conference accusing LE of such.

This is done all the time in press conferences when making an announcement of charges being brought and warrants being issued and there is certainly nothing untoward or illegal about it. Perhaps the officers involved should have had "made damned sure" they had probable cause for their actions, now that would have been legal.

 

[scmom]

So Caesar Goodman's grandfather was also a LEO? And his mother worked for the government. (From Katydid's link.)

 

[SStarr33]

Have the dispatcher tapes from the time of Freddie's arrest been released?

Not sure. Maybe check google.

 

[shadowraiths]

The Timeline of Freddie Gray’s Arrest and the Charges Filed

On Friday, state prosecutors said that they had probable cause to file homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray. Marilyn J. Mosby, the state’s attorney in Baltimore, described a sequence of events that differed significantly from the police.

[...]

The state’s attorney in Baltimore, Marilyn J. Mosby, described repeated mistreatment of Mr. Gray. She said officers abused Mr. Gray, arrested him without grounds and violated police procedure by putting him in handcuffs and leg restraints in a van without a seatbelt. This sequence is based on Ms. Mosby’s statements and previous statements by the police.​

NY Times

BBM. Afaics, this is the crux of this case and why all 6 officers were charged. That these LEOs lied about the knife, to my mind, indicates that they well knew they had violated Mr. Gray's rights by arresting him in the first place. That is, they had no business arresting much less doing a drive about while he was in the back of the van, dying.

 

[mysteriew]

I have a stupid question for those who've followed a lot more closely. A lot of people get broken spines and do not die, so what is the actual cause of death? And is that a complication from the broken spine? Or is the broken spine only being mentioned so frequently to show the extent of the injuries like he had xyz injuries as well as a broken spine. I'm oblivious to a lot of medical things but I didn't know a broken spine caused death. TIA

That's a complicated question. Yes a lot of people survive broken spines. Some with very few health changes, some with chronic pain, some paralyzed and some die. A lot of factors go into that. Where the break is, how severe and how much displacement of the fracture. A fractre that damages the cord in the top three verebrae can kill, a fracture below that can cause varying degrees of paralysis. Complications can kill in any of the cases. In all cases immediate medical care is urgent.

 

[Trident]

I wasn't aware that there are riots anytime a decision involving a police brutality case happens.

Where you been hiding?

 

[scmom]

Just wondering when a special prosecutor will be assigned. Seems a probability.

 

[lonetraveler]

I have a stupid question for those who've followed a lot more closely. A lot of people get broken spines and do not die, so what is the actual cause of death? And is that a complication from the broken spine? Or is the broken spine only being mentioned so frequently to show the extent of the injuries like he had xyz injuries as well as a broken spine. I'm oblivious to a lot of medical things but I didn't know a broken spine caused death. TIA

That's actually why 'hanging' is a method of execution. Broken neck is death.

 

[SCHMAE]

I am still struggling with how this is homicide. I apologize if I missed the actual explanation. I asked DH MD how a tracheal/C spine/spinal cord injury could have occurred causing cardiac arrest, when a person was put on the floor of a police van or in the sitting position. His response was an overly aggressive choke hold gone wrong. If FG had a missed C spine injury from an MVA, it could have been further aggravated by an over zealous arrest. (Similar to EG in NYC). IMO

We follow a lot of cases and I thought one of the defining differences between MURDER and something like MANSLAUGHTER was intent and motive ...... So how would we prove those in this case if we were the DA here and had to do it . If your job depended on it, how would you go about it? Because all I can see from my very limited perspective would be something like Involuntary Manslaughter and/ or Negligent Homicide... far cry from murder. Help me out , sleuthers !

ETA Let me clear, I am not accusing the officers of involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide... I 'm just speculating and thinking out loud. If some people got into a bar fight and this happened, then it would be something like one of these two charges and probably not murder. Where the difference is between LEO altercations with detained people , I don't know and if there should be any difference I don't know.

 

[sorrell skye]

After watching Ms. Mosby's presser, I perceive her as a strong, confident State's Attorney. I don't detect the anger that others have noticed.

When a man in a position of authority portrays strength & confidence, he's hailed as a leader and a role model.

Question: When a woman in a position of authority projects these same positive traits, why is she perceived as being angry?

 

[SCHMAE]

That's actually why 'hanging' is a method of execution. Broken neck is death.

Got you . Thanks. I always think of spine as the back and the neck as the neck and not the spine.

 

[SStarr33]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-mosby-20150501-story.html#page=1

During her campaign radio interview she provided additional information about how she would handle a police investigation.

"Once that investigation is completed that information will be turned over to me," she said. "I will also have a civilian review panel. They will have the same information. They will make a recommendation to me. I will then assess that recommendation. And if I believe we should be pursuing a police officer, I will indict that police officer and put it in front of grand jury."

But it is unclear what she meant by a civilian review panel and whether she followed that process in the Gray case. Her office declined to comment on the matter.

 

[katydid23]

So Caesar Goodman's grandfather was also a LEO? And his mother worked for the government. (From Katydid's link.)

Just watched the Mayor, and she said that there was ' no room for racists' in the BPD. Is she implying that the African American officer, who was driving the van, is a racist?

 

[SCHMAE]

That's a complicated question. Yes a lot of people survive broken spines. Some with very few health changes, some with chronic pain, some paralyzed and some die. A lot of factors go into that. Where the break is, how severe and how much displacement of the fracture. A fractre that damages the cord in the top three verebrae can kill, a fracture below that can cause varying degrees of paralysis. Complications can kill in any of the cases. In all cases immediate medical care is urgent.

Thank you . Is that because it cuts off blood flow to the brain ? tia

 

[SStarr33]

The Timeline of Freddie Gray’s Arrest and the Charges Filed

On Friday, state prosecutors said that they had probable cause to file homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray. Marilyn J. Mosby, the state’s attorney in Baltimore, described a sequence of events that differed significantly from the police.

[...]

The state’s attorney in Baltimore, Marilyn J. Mosby, described repeated mistreatment of Mr. Gray. She said officers abused Mr. Gray, arrested him without grounds and violated police procedure by putting him in handcuffs and leg restraints in a van without a seatbelt. This sequence is based on Ms. Mosby’s statements and previous statements by the police.​

NY Times

BBM. Afaics, this is the crux of this case and why all 6 officers were charged. That these LEOs lied about the knife, to my mind, indicates that they well knew they had violated Mr. Gray's rights by arresting him in the first place. That is, they had no business arresting much less doing a drive about while he was in the back of the van, dying.

Is an outstanding warrant probable cause?

 

[SStarr33]

After watching Ms. Mosby's presser, I perceive her as a strong, confident State's Attorney. I don't detect the anger that others have noticed.

When a man in a position of authority portrays strength & confidence, he's hailed as a leader and a role model.

Question: When a woman in a position of authority projects these same positive traits, why is she perceived as being angry?

Probably just your perception. Everyone is different

 

[corundogs]

I get it - I do. All along I kept thinking manslaughter but murder?

Murder carries intent to kill and I just can't wrap my head around this driver INTENDING to kill him. Hurt him, rough him up, whatever - but I don't believe there was any intent to kill.





JMHO

I will admit that I haven't read through the whole thread to see if this was addressed.

But that shouldn't matter!

If you intend to hurt someone, and they die, that is murder! Not 1st Degree, but murder none the less.