MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[DebinGA]

The cops' lawyers don't have FG's autopsy/toxicology report, officers' statements, etc. I don't see any "getting their stories straight" scenario here. The 3 white bike cops know what they did, because they were all together while doing it and iirc on film, with Goodson joining them at the end. Iirc they don't know what happened with Ofcs. Goodson and Porter. Sgt. White doesn't seem to have done anything, which is what she's charged with - failure to act. I don't know why the trip to the station took 40 min., but I definitely see some fault due there.

 

[corundogs]

Kind of jumping in here...not really in response to any specific post.

How many of you have seen The Wire - HBO series?

From what I am reading here, most of you haven't. Since there are so many questions about why this certain area feels the way they do. Why should they feel this way if black people have held the highest positions for so long.

The Wire received major accolades in how real/accurate it was. It showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets.

Probably too much to ask that y'all sit down and watch it - it was 5 seasons/13 episodes each. But if you are any way interested, or looking for a great program to watch...I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!!! Best show I have probably ever seen.

 

[corundogs]

So they get fired, arrested on false criminal charges, jailed, have to raise bail, their lives are ruined, ALL so the DA can try and get more info from them? :sigh:

Not disputing any of the other things...but raise bail?? Didn't the Union pay for that?

And of course, if they are found guilty, then they put all of those other things on themselves!

 

[katydid23]

Kind of jumping in here...not really in response to any specific post.

How many of you have seen The Wire - HBO series?

From what I am reading here, most of you haven't. Since there are so many questions about why this certain area feels the way they do. Why should they feel this way if black people have held the highest positions for so long.

The Wire received major accolades in how real/accurate it was. It showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets.

Probably too much to ask that y'all sit down and watch it - it was 5 seasons/13 episodes each. But if you are any way interested, or looking for a great program to watch...I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!!! Best show I have probably ever seen.

So it "showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets. "

ummmmm....you do see the bias and agenda hidden above, don't you? According to the statement aBOVE, ALL cops and politicians are corrupt while the poor innocents on the streets are ALL victims. I can assure you that there is much more to the story than that.

 

[corundogs]

So it "showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets. "

ummmmm....you do see the bias and agenda hidden above, don't you? According to the statement aBOVE, ALL cops and politicians are corrupt while the poor innocents on the streets are ALL victims. I can assure you that there is much more to the story than that.

LOL!! No where did I say ALL cops and politicians are corrupt. And the real issue of those on the streets was drugs, gangs and poverty. Again, no where did I say that they were victims.

 

[lonetraveler]

wow . . . excerpt:

And she has created a new expectation in the city: that police officers who arrest without what she considers to be probable cause (a subjective standard) are subject not just to civil action (the current norm) but criminal action. Mere mistakes, or judgments exercised under duress, can land them in the pokey.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-freddie-gray-mosby-20150505-story.html

edit - gotta laugh/cry - the newspaper took out the next to the last paragraph of her letter (found on her blog) too explosive?

I totally agree with you that if I was a police officer in Baltimore I would be packing up and moving somewhere far away from Baltimore and NYC.

 

[katydid23]

LOL!! No where did I say ALL cops and politicians are corrupt. And the real issue of those on the streets was drugs, gangs and poverty. Again, no where did I say that they were victims.

So it "showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets. "

BBM

If you look at how it is worded, it IMPLIES the entire PD is corrupt. It does not say SOME are corrupt, it says ' THE CORRUPTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

What if I said ' it shows the criminality of the local citizens.' Wouldn't that imply ALL of them, as opposed to the few who choose to break the law?

And YES, I totally agree that drugs gangs and poverty are the real issue on the streets. And those are the real issues for the cops and politicians as well.

 

[corundogs]

So it "showed the corruption of the police department and politicians. It showed the real issue of those on the streets. "

BBM

If you look at how it is worded, it IMPLIES the entire PD is corrupt. It does not say SOME are corrupt, it says ' THE CORRUPTION OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

What if I said ' it shows the criminality of the local citizens.' Wouldn't that imply ALL of them, as opposed to the few who choose to break the law?

And YES, I totally agree that drugs gangs and poverty are the real issue on the streets. And those are the real issues for the cops and politicians as well.

And from all of your responses, you seem to think that corruption of police and politicians doesn't exist.

As far as your statement about "the criminality of the local citizens". Nope, I guarantee you I wouldn't assume you meant every local citizen.

 

[SilkySifaka]

That is not a new expectation. That is in the Fourth Amendment. Thats 227 years of legal precedent, and there is nothing subjective about it. She is merely upholding the Constitution.

Amendment IV



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

And a lot of people who are upset with her on this board, forget she ran on a platform that included fighting police corruption and misbehavior. This is what the voters wanted. She is walking the walk not just talking the talk and I for one am glad for it.

imo

 

[katydid23]

And from all of your responses, you seem to think that corruption of police and politicians doesn't exist.

As far as your statement about "the criminality of the local citizens". Nope, I guarantee you I wouldn't assume you meant every local citizen.

Of course there are corrupt cops. And many corrupt politicians. As a matter of fact, The Democrats have had a solid hold on this district for decades. What happened to the millions and millions delegated for aid and development in the neighborhoods? Why is the school district the 5th highest in 'dollars spent per student' and yet the kids claim they aren't getting an education? I'd like to hear Elijah Cummings answers to those questions.

Maybe you would not assume I meant every local citizen. But I can assure you that if I said ' the criminality of the local citizens' I would be castigated and rightly so.

 

[katydid23]

And a lot of people who are upset with her on this board, forget she ran on a platform that included fighting police corruption and misbehavior. This is what the voters wanted. She is walking the walk not just talking the talk and I for one am glad for it.

imo

Do you think the bike officers were corrupt for arresting him?

 

[popsicle]

FOX 5 DC ‏@fox5newsdc 5m5 minutes ago
#BREAKING: Baltimore officer charged in #FreddieGray death files motion contending arrest was legal because of knife type (via AP)

 

[leah]

FOX 5 DC ‏@fox5newsdc 5m5 minutes ago
#BREAKING: Baltimore officer charged in #FreddieGray death files motion contending arrest was legal because of knife type (via AP)

I'm lost as why this knife can be illegal and legal, depending on who is talking about it. Somebody must know without a doubt whether it is legal or not, and why this back and forth continues.

 

[popsicle]

The motion was filed Monday by attorneys for Officer Edward Nero in Baltimore District Court.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047...-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

 

[katydid23]

I'm lost as why this knife can be illegal and legal, depending on who is talking about it. Somebody must know without a doubt whether it is legal or not, and why this back and forth continues.

It is not cut and dry. There are overlapping rules which vary by state, county, city. And various court rulings and updates. It comes down to tiny variables such as 'springloaded' vs front loaded or side opening mechanisms.

 

[DebinGA]

I'm lost as why this knife can be illegal and legal, depending on who is talking about it. Somebody must know without a doubt whether it is legal or not, and why this back and forth continues.

The Supreme Court standard is whether a reasonable officer could have believed the knife was illegal at the time of the arrest. If so, the officer is not culpable if it turns out later he was mistaken. Mosby's position is that being mistaken is a criminal offense, except when the wrong name/address appears on 2 charging documents, putting 2 uninvolved persons' lives in jeapordy. That's not criminal; that was just a mistake.

 

[octobermoon]

Freddie Gray officer threatened to kill himself and ex-partner's husband, court document alleges

A sharply critical nine-page complaint against Rice, which Andrew McAleer filed to a court in Maryland in January 2013, is being published in full for the first time by the Guardian. It details what McAleer, a Baltimore firefighter, described as a “pattern of intimidation and violence” by the officer.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/05/freddie-gray-baltimore-police-brian-rice

Doc link
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2072504-lt-brian-rice-peace-order-complaint.html

 

[katydid23]

The motion was filed Monday by attorneys for Officer Edward Nero in Baltimore District Court.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7047...-charged-gray-death-contends-arrest-was-legal

Looks like he is calling her bluff. If he wins this appeal it will be devastating for the SA, imo.

 

[katydid23]

The Supreme Court standard is whether a reasonable officer could have believed the knife was illegal at the time of the arrest. If so, the officer is not culpable if it turns out later he was mistaken. Mosby's position is that being mistaken is a criminal offense, except when the wrong name/address appears on 2 charging documents, putting 2 uninvolved persons' lives in jeapordy. That's not criminal; that was just a mistake.

:goodpost:

 

[DebinGA]

It is not cut and dry. There are overlapping rules which vary by state, county, city. And various court rulings and updates. It comes down to tiny variables such as 'springloaded' vs front loaded or side opening mechanisms.

There's a difference between the MD and Baltimore's code on the knife legality. Mosby quoted MD's, but Baltimore's says "any spring assisted" knife is illegal iirc.

Baltimore Sun yesterday:

"While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code"