MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[dandy]

It already looks like ferguson to me.
What does she mean by leveling the playing field?

to start - l/e is an authority figure . . . so how can there be a level playing field - unless she's inferring taking away some of their authority?

 

[bestill]

Bessie, I agree with you, and I will echo what Trident wrote.

I think the biggest frustration with this case, and other similar recent cases, is that the social outrage on both sides has little to nothing to do with the deceased victim, who in each case was also a violent criminal suspect. No one can speak freely, because of the shackles and the muzzle of political correctness-- not just on this board, but in other public arenas-- political correctness that only favors one point of view.

The entire situation is not at all about Freddie Gray, or excessive force by police, IMO, but an opportunistic exploitation of Freddie Gray and the police officers, as a predatory platform for social politics. JMO. Freddie Gray is a tool, exploited not for who he was, or how he died, IMO, but a tool to advance a social and political agenda.

The conversation would be most productive here, and in other public venues, if political correctness went out the window. Then we could get to the REAL issues, and what to do to improve things. JMO. IDK-- maybe a topic for the basement, member's only area?

Excellent post! It encourages me to read from others what I'm hearing and feeling where I live. I think we all understood where this was going and it's bigger than the death of one man with a criminal past while in LE custody. It's an agenda and his death is being exploited, not only for political points but to enhance resume's.

 

[bettybaby00]

So the driver is at least responsible for closing and locking the door, just not seat belting them in. jmo idk

You lost me?

 

[katydid23]

snipped with respect

I agree. I would hope if my children or loved ones were ever detained that they had a 100 percent chance of clearing their name or living with the consequences of their behavior.

In Baltimore, even the police higher-ups have acknowledged rough rides and a failure to provide medical care. Watching CNN last night as the police were videotaping the most recent arrestees and noting the care taken to put those arrested in the vans, I am certain that it is possible to ensure that those taken into custody are delivered safely. Also, there were firefighters and EMTs called to the scene for medical needs.

Thanks for your post.

I am predicting that the majority of future arrestees will demand EMTS at the arrest site. I wonder how long the city will be able to afford that?

 

[iluvmua]

I hope the charges are dropped and the 6 officers sue the hell out of Mrs. Mosby and the city. It is very obvious she is only doing this to appease the masses and for political reasons.

She has close ties to the Gray family lawyer as well.

These cops are being way overcharged.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

You lost me?

According to family he was reprimanded for a prisoner escaping from the van, so he must have been responsible for that yet he is saying that the officer's didn't and wouldn't let him seatbelt freddie in, I have a hard time believing that. If I am the driver of a police van/ paddy wagon I will be the one that secures the prisoners, if he was not allowed to do that, something needs to be changed cause that is a lame excuse for not belting prisoners in. jmo idk

 

[dandy]

headline is misleading imo . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/03/i...mayor-regrets-space-to-destroy-comment-video/

edit haha - forgot the headline! i didn't hear her say she regrets statement . . .I Certainly Used The Wrong Phrase': Baltimore Mayor Regrets Space To Destroy Comment [VIDEO]

 

[Sonya610]

According to family he was reprimanded for a prisoner escaping from the van, so he must have been responsible for that yet he is saying that the officer's didn't and wouldn't let him seatbelt freddie in, I have a hard time believing that. If I am the driver of a police van/ paddy wagon I will be the one that secures the prisoners, if he was not allowed to do that, something needs to be changed cause that is a lame excuse for not belting prisoners in. jmo idk

I certainly don't believe the driver "begged" the other officers to strap Gray in and the other officers just refused/ignored the request.

 

[epiphany]

<modsnip>

Online reports are swirling that Freddie Gray had spinal surgery shortly before he died in police custody, and had collected a payout in a settlement from a car accident. Those reports &#8212; which raise questions about the injury that led to his death in April 19 &#8212; point to Howard County court records as proof.

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure to lead paint.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

 

[LietKynes]

headline is misleading imo . . .

http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/03/i...mayor-regrets-space-to-destroy-comment-video/

edit haha - forgot the headline! i didn't hear her say she regrets statement . . .I Certainly Used The Wrong Phrase': Baltimore Mayor Regrets Space To Destroy Comment [VIDEO]

RSBM

Hmmmmm..... Damage control ?
Maybe just a slip of the tongue--- but I personally have a problem with her telling LE to 'stand down'. Just horrific for the owners of the shops and businesses.
:moo:

 

[DebinGA]

I haven't seen Mayor R-B's original "space to destroy" comment in context. She later seemed to claim she'd said that she'd given people "space" to protest but some bad actors infiltrated the "space" provided to "destroy", i.e. loot and burn. So far I haven't heard her explanation for the police not moving out of their lines to stop the mall stores being stripped bare, despite live video showing swarms of miscreants doing so. Her "I was too busy" excuse for refusing to take Gov. Hogan's call (offering to activate the NG) for hours doesn't fly either.

 

[katydid23]

I haven't seen Mayor R-B's original "space to destroy" comment in context. She later seemed to claim she'd said that she'd given people "space" to protest but some bad actors infiltrated the "space" provided to "destroy", i.e. loot and burn. So far I haven't heard her explanation for the police not moving out of their lines to stop the mall stores being stripped bare, despite live video showing swarms of miscreants doing so.

NOOOO. She said herself '''we gave them space to destroy..." <<<HER OWN WORDS

 

[Boytwnmom]

that type of knife has been traditionally treated as illegal in Baltimore as well as other cities in Maryland and beyond. The city of Baltimore has an ordinance more broad than the state/federal "switchblade" language. I addressed some of this yesterday. But I am feeling like the Prosecutors attempt to use some kind of definitional distinction to make FG's knife legal so as to make his arrest illegal will be easily challenged by defense attorneys forth e officers. Seems more a piece of political theater for the crowd than a true legal determination. Plus, it impacts past and future arrests for similar illegal knives in Baltimore.

But this is not the simple determination the prosecutor made it out to be. FG was arrested for a knife described as being spring loaded or operated (can't remember which) so it was a knife of the type described as "assisted open" and not a "pen knife" which requires two hands to open.

Brought over from my post yesterday:

So, it seems as though the knife at issue was technically an "assisted opening" rather than a "switchblade"

How to Tell the Difference

A good indicator of whether a knife is considered a switchblade or an assisted opening knife is what the resting position of the blade is. If the blade's natural inclination is to open without the presence of a hindrance, it's a switchblade. If there is nothing blocking the blade and it stays closed, the knife is an assisted opener (assuming it has a mechanism to help open the knife).

Another way to look at it: If you are able to open the blade without exerting any effort on the actual blade, it's a switchblade. Conversely, engaging an assisted opening knife requires you to put some pressure on the actual blade, whether on the thumb stud or a rear lever connected to the blade, before the opening mechanism takes effect.
http://www.*****************/knife-information-240.html

In many states and municipalities ONLY switchblades are illegal. However, Baltimore city has an ordinance which is more broad:

POLICE ORDINANCES ART.19, §59-22
§ 59-22. Switch-blade knives.
(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.
(b) Penalties.
Any person violating the provisions of this section, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not more than $500 or be imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both, in the discretion of the court.
(City Code, 1950, art. 24, §155; 1966, art. 19, §160; 1976/83, art. 19, §185.) (Ord. 44-057.)
http://archive.baltimorecity.gov/por...PoliceOrds.pdf

NY has a similar broader law and the Village Voice had been covering that issue and wrote about this case with the update that the prosecutor has now said the knife was legal. It's clear NY conducts arrests based on the broader law

The arrest charge recalls an issue we've been covering in New York City for months — the NYPD's enforcement of a half-century old law against so-called "gravity knives." The law was the subject of a lengthy investigation we published last year which found as many as 60,000 questionable arrests in ten years, making the statute one of the top-ten most-prosecuted crimes in New York City.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin..._in_police.php

And it seems as though Baltimore does too. I found comments on the "Baltimorecrimeblogspot" from 2011 arguing about whether the city was right because the Baltimore Police and Prosecutor said assisted open knives were illegal under the city ordinance-the actual news article linked has been removed from the news site but seemed to refer to some specific incident involving a store.

And found an article about Ocean City enacting a law similar to Baltimores to make assisted open knives illegal.

The new ordinance on assisted-opening knives adds it to the city’s list of various weapons that are already banned, including nunchakus, throwing stars, metal knuckles and fighting axes.

Ross C. Buzzuro, Ocean City’s police chief, said his department recommended prohibiting the assisted-opening knives because they’re “very easy to open and become a weapon.”

“In the interest of public safety, there’s not a real good reason to have a knife of that type in this environment,” said Buzzuro, who served 27 years in the Baltimore City Police Department before taking over Ocean City’s police force.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...82d_story.html

In that same article, a criminal defense attorney even argued that assisted open knives could be considered illegal the existing state law switchblade prohibition:

David Martella, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor in Montgomery County, said based on his reading and analysis of state laws, prosecutors could convict someone of carrying a concealed assisted-opening knife under the existing switchblade statute.
So, if it turns out, as it seems, that these "assisted open" knives have been long treated as illegal in Baltimore, and other places, under the city ordnance, why would a prosecutor now say those knives are legal? Why would she take a position that not even a defense attorney would take? That an assisted open knife is legal. Won't this bring into questions ALL the arrests, charges, cases in Baltimore based on assisted open knives?

More and more, this all seems to be much more a political, than a legal, decision.

Snipped for space......I may have missed where " they blatantly falsified a document" on the knife. Has more information come out on the knife? Why do you believe it was NOT spring loaded? ( or spring assist). Aside from the LE report, the only thing I have heard is " folding knife", " not a switchblade", and " not illegal".

ETA: I don't think anyone is " lying" about the knife. I do believe it is a one hand, spring assist knife. It's the murky way the law is written that leaves its legal status up for debate.

 

[bestill]

Governer stated over 200 businesses lost and countless $$ over last week. Mayor should be held accountable for her statement and her order to "stand down"

 

[DebinGA]

Governer stated over 200 businesses lost and countless $$ over last week. Mayor should be held accountable for her statement and her order to "stand down"

Absolutely. I can't imagine what business/home insurance in Baltimore will cost now, or how many businesses will close because it's too expensive.

 

[bestill]

Absolutely. I can't imagine what business/home insurance in Baltimore will cost now, or how many businesses will close because it's too expensive.

I wonder if CVS will rebuild? They will probably be better served taking the insurance money and leaving the area. I also wonder if the Insurance Companies will sue the city for the Mayor not allowing LE and others to protect private property. Why should this cost the insurance companies? Of course many of the businesses weren't insured, the Governor said the state will be there to help them. So guess who's paying for that? This is so wrong on many levels.

 

[Solitaryone]

I am predicting that the majority of future arrestees will demand EMTS at the arrest site. I wonder how long the city will be able to afford that?

Yeah, while those folks who really need EMTS will be left without any timely help. How many people who are truly in need will die because of no service available to help them?

 

[Boytwnmom]

I know, minutia, but in this case important too. Until I started reading about this I had no clue that "knives" were soooo complicated. I do have a swiss army knife in my backpack-my extent of knife knowledge.

But my reading is showing me this is a topic much discussed/debated and argued about in legal contexts. Here's info from a Maryland attorney:

The law defines a large number of different types of weapons that are prohibited, but does not do a great job of detailing what defines each type of weapon. The problem with this is that not only are citizens confused about the laws, but police officers end up being confused as well. When a cop is unsure about the law, he or she will generally err on the side of caution, and unfortunately this means making an arrest or issuing a citation. ...Knives are clearly the most common type of weapon for this charge, and they are also the source of the most confusion. To be precise, the law only prohibits switchblades, star knives, bowie knives, and dirk knives but few people and police officers actually know the exact differences between each. A switchblade or automatic knife typically has a button that deploys the blade, while dirk and bowie knives do not have any type of buttons or folding mechanisms. Star knives are also called throwing stars, and are rare but widely recognized from various ninja movies. Penknives, which include pocketknives and non-automatic folding knives are the most common type of knife regularly owned and carried, are not illegal under this statute. But just because they are legal does not mean a cop will look the other way if he or she finds one. Penknives are often the root of many unlawful weapons arrests, and these cases require skilled representation in order to assure their dismissal.

http://www.mdtriallawyer.com/dangerous-weapon-possession.html

There are Maryland cases which demonstrate this has been the topic of litigation and is not some easy clear factual determination. Which again begs the question of WHY a prosecutor would take a position that would seemingly handicap law enforcement officers and benefit criminals. Normally the state argues for broader definition of dangerous weapons and argues for affording officers a good faith basis for declaring a knife illegal.

And the Baltimore City Code has broader language which seems to clearly make the type of weapon FG carried illegal in the city. Even if it were ambiguous how can that ambiguity make the arrest illegal? The question of whether a weapon fit the description would be a question of fact for the jury with the burden on the state to prove it was. Why would a prosecutor ever argue that an arrest was illegal based upon such an issue?

Baltimore City Charter & Code

§ 59-22. Switch-blade knives.

(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.

 

[octobermoon]

Yeah, while those folks who really need EMTS will be left without any timely help. How many people who are truly in need will die because of no service available to help them?

Freddie Gray was truly in need.

 

[bettybaby00]

I haven't seen Mayor R-B's original "space to destroy" comment in context. She later seemed to claim she'd said that she'd given people "space" to protest but some bad actors infiltrated the "space" provided to "destroy", i.e. loot and burn. So far I haven't heard her explanation for the police not moving out of their lines to stop the mall stores being stripped bare, despite live video showing swarms of miscreants doing so. Her "I was too busy" excuse for refusing to take Gov. Hogan's call (offering to activate the NG) for hours doesn't fly either.

She's full of carp.

“I made it very clear that I work with the police and instructed them to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech,” Rawlings-Blake said. “It’s a very delicate balancing act. Because while we try to make sure that they were protected from the cars and other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. And we worked very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to de-escalate.”

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/...those-who-wished-to-destroy-space-to-do-that/

Not sure what other way we're supposed to interpret it, but she tried


Almost as good as trying to walk back the T word comment.

I wanted to clarify my comments on "****s." When you speak out of frustration and anger, one can say things in a way that you don't mean.

That night we saw misguided young people who need to be held accountable, but who also need support. And my comments then didn't convey that

https://mobile.twitter.com/MayorSRB/status/593443825038819328