MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[Boytwnmom]

that's how. There was no allegation of rough ride and no evidence of any rough ride but that does not lead to your conclusion about that meaning the injury happened during the arrest. If that is true, the prosecutor was clearly unaware of it as the charging document makes no allegation of any injury except during the van ride. And that is all that can be supported by the charges as only the van driver was charged with the most serious offense.

Now, that may be because the prosecutor rushed to bring charges without an adequate investigation. But you proceed in a criminal case with the charges you have not the ones you should have brought. That's why prosecutors generally wait for the autopsy report and spend considerable time evaluating the evidence in light of such report. However, here the prosecutor had the report for 24 hours, same with the results of the police investigation, and yet proceeded to charge without a seemingly adequate review of all relevant information. That's probably why the charges and her method of charging have been met with such criticism.

Go figure.



The other passenger was in the van for the last 5 mins of a 45 min or so drive.

Gray looked pretty unstable to me, when they were dragging him to the van, his head's on a weird angle too. Witness said he heard Gray complaining about officer knee on him, and being hurt. Gray complained of lack of breath, a symptom of spinal injury (as well as 'asthma', and we only have the accused cops' word for it he called for an inhaler). Pretty suss, imo.



How would GPS support "no rough ride". A camera in the van, maybe..

In any case, if there was indeed no rough ride, it just supports my notion that Gray's injuries began at point of arrest and were exacerbated by him dragged in and out of the van during their multiple stops.

Speaking of the other prisoner in the van.. initial reports had him saying he heard Gray making sounds, that was all. Then the Dept "leaked" an alleged statement that this prisoner said Gray tried to harm himself (despite having no way of seeing Gray).

The prisoner himself strongly denies this, and he'[s then repeated basically the same story reported in the first place -- that he heard "a few bangs" from Gray's side of the van, during that last 5 mins of the ride he was witness to.

Which could have been Gray desperately trying to get help.

 

[SStarr33]

Re suspicious lack of information:

Baltimore Police have admitted the van transporting Freddie Gray made a previously unreported stop.

The mysterious development, announced on Thursday, emerged after the department surveyed a privately-owned security camera during their investigation into Gray’s death, which has been completed and handed to the state prosecutor.

It is not known why the van stopped at the corner of North Fremont Ave and Mosher Street before it made another two stops then finally transported Gray to the hospital. He died of a severe spinal injury a week later.

Police Commissioner Anthony Batts refused to elaborate on the new information.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/310...of-police-van-that-was-carrying-freddie-gray/

I suspect, since NONE of the police involved chose to include thiis "mystery" stop on their initial reports, it likely would have remained a mystery were it not for investigators turning up a copy of the CCTV recording. The original of which went missing.

But why is it a mystery at all? WHY would these officers decide to leave this stop off the record?

Another strange detail that's emerged: Lt Brian Rice seems to have been the one directing the van's so far inexplicable, circuitous 40+ minute route to the station - which was actually just a couple of minutes drive from arrest location.

"Told Officer Caesar Goodson where to drive and stop the van."

Why would he need to do that? Was Goodson unable to find the police station on his own?

How was Rice "telling" Goodson where to go and stop, and for how long?

Very curious stuff.

The bike guys followed the van to the mystery stop?

 

[DebinGA]

The bike guys followed the van to the mystery stop?

I don't think the bike cops dealt with FG again after Stop 2, when Lt Rice ordered Ofc. Goodson to take FG to the booking facility. They showed up later when the Donta guy was arrested in FG's neighborhood. Mosby said: "[Goodson] was again met by Officer Nero, Miller, and Porter. ... Goodson walked to the back of the wagon and again opened the doors to the wagon to make observations of Mr. Gray. Sgt Alicia White, Officer Porter, and Officer Goodson observed Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor of the wagon ...".

Bike cops played no part after FG was shackled in Stop 2, according to Mosby's statement.

 

[iluvmua]

I hope Mrs. Mosby's career is ruined because of this and I hope all 6 sue the living daylights out of her and the city.

JMO

6 lives ruined and for what????

 

[KMouse]

When the charges were first announced my initial thought was "they better be sure....real sure that these officers are responsible for a criminal act and this better not be a knee jerk reaction to pacify the masses.

 

[ShadyLady]

The bike guys followed the van to the mystery stop?

That does not make sense.

 

[DebinGA]

Logically, what will happen in Baltimore now that police know they can be criminally prosecuted for arrests they make based on facts they sincerely believe to be true at the time? A sharp decrease in arrests and a sharp increase in crime imo.

 

[Tawny]

I hope Mrs. Mosby's career is ruined because of this and I hope all 6 sue the living daylights out of her and the city.

JMO

6 lives ruined and for what????

For a dead man. IMO, it's likely they were either involved in or helped cover up whatever led to FG's injuries/death.

Obviously we wait for all of the evidence to come out, but 6 lives weren't necessarily "ruined". They still get to live and get on with their lives, even if it means in prison or as cops or going down another career path.

Focusing on the "ruined" lives of the still-alive cops instead of the end of a human life is what's so frustrating and off-putting for many.

 

[DebinGA]

I hope there's evidence that FG's injuries were self-inflicted and LE at worst unknowingly exacerbated his injuries once he was in their keeping. FG reportedly was video'd running without difficulty around a sizable area during the pursuit, into and out of building/s, perhaps leaping and falling down stairs in his mad dash to ditch drugs or hand them off to someone he knew along the way, before intentionally doubling-back to meet up with the officers; he wasn't hiding. That scenario makes much more sense to me than these officers finding FG hale and hearty but leaving him broken and dying.

 

[Peliman]

Well, one thing everyone here seems to agree on is that there is corruption by authorities in B'more.
Police, politicians or both? Whatever the answer is, it needs to change. Hence the justified protests.

I have to disagree and I'll explain why. An investigation does and needs to be done regarding Freddie. The problem is everyone has made it 100 times worse than what was needed because of people jumping to the wrong conclusions not based on facts. Peoples wrong conclusions has caused people to react as if those conclusions were true. His death is true but to act as though every death is murder is jumping to a premature conclusion.

Had people not demanded a rush to judgement the SA and mayor would not be taking the pounding and criticism they are faced with today.

It's very possible one or more officers would have been charged anyway but in the rush to judgement and millions of dollars later we're still left with facts not discovered yet. Nobody's been cleared and it just takes time to sort out truth from fiction. False assumptions, false conclusions, a lynch mob mentality has created it's own cycle of destructiveness. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

I suspect, since NONE of the police involved chose to include thiis "mystery" stop on their initial reports, it likely would have remained a mystery were it not for investigators turning up a copy of the CCTV recording. The original of which went missing.

The "mystery stop" is still a mystery, since iirc Ofc. Goodson was alone in the van with FG at the time, and he hasn't talked with investigators. This stop was after Goodson had driven away from the bike cops, but before Ofc. Porter joined Goodson at the next stop.

Another strange detail that's emerged: Lt Brian Rice seems to have been the one directing the van's so far inexplicable, circuitous 40+ minute route to the station - which was actually just a couple of minutes drive from arrest location.

According to Mosby's chronology, Lt. Rice ordered Goodson at Stop 2, a block from the arrest site, to take FG to the Baltimore Central Booking and Intake Facility, which is 10 min. from that location if my Google mapping isn't way off, which it could well be. Mosby didn't mention Lt. Rice ordering or directing Goodson to go or do anything else in her charging statements.[/QUOTE]

How was Rice "telling" Goodson where to go and stop, and for how long?

I imagine Lt. Rice was the senior officer at the arrest scene, and it was his job to give Ofc. Goodson direction. Iirc nothing Mosby has said indicates Lt. Rice had any contact with Goodson after Stop 2 when FG's legs were shackled. JMO

 

[Tawny]

I do agree that the charges seem rushed, and I hope that doesn't come back to bite the prosecution in the tush. Cases like these, especially those involving LEO, need to be extremely carefully handled. What a mess this entire situation is from minute one

 

[corundogs]

Not sure if posted, but wow. When Sonny Hostin describes the prosecutor's investigation as "sloppy, sloppy.', regardingthe knife, and then goes on to state "something happened to FG, but I just don't think these charges are appropriate" then the case has serious problems.

[video=youtu;dIogFGC_wZY]http://youtu.be/dIogFGC_wZY[/video]

You are right about that, Sonny NEVER goes the other way, NEVER.
My biggest concern about the charging so quickly is, it appears to satisify the mob. But if they end up getting the charges dropped for lack of evidence or go to trial and walk, here we go again, most likely bigger and better than the first time. I want justice for FG, but I also want justice for the LE. If only one or two is guilty, then I don't think all 6 should go down.
all MOO

I am wondering if there is more to this than just face value of SH not agreeing.

She is personal friends with the Mayor. There could be some issues between Mosby and Rawlings-Blake.

This is PURELY my own speculation...

 

[corundogs]

ummmm - hopefully a/cooper is not televising his show from nyc - if he was = hopefully he had l/e bring that knife to him . . . cause it's illegal in nyc.

HAHA! Can you imagine LEO showing up to the studio to arrest AC for possession of an illegal knife???? Man...I would pay money to see that - and I love AC!! LOL!!

 

[corundogs]

Central Bookings is not the police station. Central Bookings is on E. Madison St and the route the van was taking was the way to Central Bookings.

Then why didn't they ever end up there, and instead ended up at the Western District Station? Which as has been pointed out many times before, just blocks from the initial arrest and subsequent leg shackles?

 

[Trident]

I have to disagree and I'll explain why. An investigation does and needs to be done regarding Freddie. The problem is everyone has made it 100 times worse than what was needed because of people jumping to the wrong conclusions not based on facts. Peoples wrong conclusions has caused people to react as if those conclusions were true. His death is true but to act as though every death is murder is jumping to a premature conclusion.

Had people not demanded a rush to judgement the SA and mayor would not be taking the pounding and criticism they are faced with today.

It's very possible one or more officers would have been charged anyway but in the rush to judgement and millions of dollars later we're still left with facts not discovered yet. Nobody's been cleared and it just takes time to sort out truth from fiction. False assumptions, false conclusions, a lynch mob mentality has created it's own cycle of destructiveness. JMO

ITA, but you have put it so politely, with such a soft touch. Maybe the honest truth, on all 3 sides, politicians, police, and criminals, is much worse than has been stated or thought of.

:cow:

 

[MissSunshine]

Then why didn't they ever end up there, and instead ended up at the Western District Station? Which as has been pointed out many times before, just blocks from the initial arrest and subsequent leg shackles?

When you get arrested in Baltimore City, Central Bookings is the place to go the majority of the time.

From the statement Mosby read, Goodson decided to go back and pick up the other prisoner. I have no idea why Goodson went back, maybe he was the only van in the area or maybe he was requested to pick up the other prisoner..there can be a number of reasons. Same as for the reason they went to Western district after the 2nd prisoner was picked up. There is a lot of holes in the events that I guess will come out soon. The only thing that I know for sure is that when you get arrested in Baltimore City, 9 times out of 10, you end up at Central Bookings.

 

[SStarr33]

When you get arrested in Baltimore City, Central Bookings is the place to go the majority of the time.

From the statement Mosby read, Goodson decided to go back and pick up the other prisoner. I have no idea why Goodson went back, maybe he was the only van in the area or maybe he was requested to pick up the other prisoner..there can be a number of reasons. Same as for the reason they went to Western district after the 2nd prisoner was picked up. There is a lot of holes in the events that I guess will come out soon. The only thing that I know for sure is that when you get arrested in Baltimore City, 9 times out of 10, you end up at Central Bookings.

Questions--what exactly is Western District? And what is Central Booking?

 

[CARIIS]

I remain surprised at all this "rush " o judgement angle. It happened on the 12 - they had 15 working days. They had resources. THey had 5 statements and tons of video - they had the cast. Why is the media claiming a rush - they had ME report - they had tons of resourve- it was a 45 minute event. Lets say they had 5 people working on it FT - that is what 600 man hours- where is this "rush"?

 

[CoolJ]

I have to disagree and I'll explain why. An investigation does and needs to be done regarding Freddie. The problem is everyone has made it 100 times worse than what was needed because of people jumping to the wrong conclusions not based on facts. Peoples wrong conclusions has caused people to react as if those conclusions were true. His death is true but to act as though every death is murder is jumping to a premature conclusion.

Had people not demanded a rush to judgement the SA and mayor would not be taking the pounding and criticism they are faced with today.

It's very possible one or more officers would have been charged anyway but in the rush to judgement and millions of dollars later we're still left with facts not discovered yet. Nobody's been cleared and it just takes time to sort out truth from fiction. False assumptions, false conclusions, a lynch mob mentality has created it's own cycle of destructiveness. JMO

You didn't really address my statement.

I am just trying to find something everyone can agree on.