GUILTY MD - Korryn Gaines, 23, fatally shot by Baltimore police, 1 Aug 2016

[KaaBoom]

I don't know about other areas, but here in my county, most people had horses and buggies. Very few owned an auto back then. Only the really rich. But there was still laws on the books about the horses and buggies. Still today, if you encounter a tractor on the road, it has all the rights of any other automobile, and you can't just fly past it because it moves slower than you want. Owning a vehicle was a luxury! It wasn't a right. It still isn't a right.

Automobiles had pushed horses and buggies off the streets in most parts of the US by the 1920s. Driver’s licenses were not standard until the 1950s. Driver’s testing was not standard until the 1960s. Mandatory liability insurance is still not standard in all states today. So driving was a right, not a privilege untill relatively recently.

Anyway, driving horses and buggies was never a “privilege”, and driving a car should not be a privilege either. Just because we have some new transportation technology, does not mean that we should flush the Constitution down the toilet.

 

[Elley Mae]

To the best of my knowledge before the 1940s nobody called driving a privilege. I mean nobody. Many states didn’t even require driver’s licenses, and even fewer required people to take a test or have insurance to drive. People paid their 25¢ and they got their driver’s license, if it was even required. That was a time when Americans still lived in a free country where they could travel freely without being harassed by police, and many court rulings at that time affirmed those rights. Only after decades of people being brainwashed that driving is a privilege, not a right, do we have the situation we have now. If people continue to be harassed by the police for trying to travel freely, then more and more people will join the sovereign citizens movement, and fight it.

This is 2016, and in the state of Maryland you have to have a drivers license and Insurance. She knew that. And even thought she spouted off stuff that could be associated to the sovereign nation it didn't matter. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Unfortunately, the Ferguson report fell on deaf ears, so I’m sure this one will to. When it comes to reports on deficiencies in law enforcement in the US, they always fall on deaf ears. So we just keep going in circles, and nothing changes.

Deaf ears?

DOJ report on that matter.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf

Because Wilson did not act with the requisite criminal intent, it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt to a jury that he violated 18 U.S.C.§ 242 when he fired his weapon at Brown.
VI. Conclusion For the reasons set forth above, this matter lacks prosecutive merit and should be closed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

LE seminars for lay people are a great idea, oceanblueeyes, but I doubt that the target audience would attend, or be receptive to the instruction.

Most of these people, the ones with the hateful, belligerent and defiant attitudes, are "lost causes", IMO. Criminals who target LE for violence and provocative behavior are lost causes. There is nothing that can be offered to them to help them change into being peaceful, respectful, law abiding citizens. They want to be the way they are. All the rest of society can do is use LE and the justice system to manage their risk to everyone else.

I used to be a pie-eyed optimist when I was younger, but now I'm older and wiser, and I have a better idea of what can be fixed, and what can't be fixed. If we could get the little kids out of these crime ridden inner cities, and raise them in a completely different environment, we'd have a good chance of turning out happy, law abiding, respectful, productive citizens. But not in our violent inner cities. Those neighborhoods, IMO, are a lost cause. We should help the people get out who want to get out, and help those who are willing to relocate and help themselves and their kids start a new and better life in a safer community. We should stop enabling the criminality and social problems in the violent inner city neighborhoods, IMO.

You are most likely right, KZ. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.

Perhaps some of them could be reached if the police came to schools and addressed this serious issue. Maybe some of it would sink in if they were away from the negative people in their lives at the time.

I just wish something could be done about all of this disrespect/defiance for authority we are seeing played out way too often now and its just not against our police officers either. It has become a widespread problem against all people in general.

It does make me wonder though .....rather than being taught at all to respect those in authority like our teachers or police officers or even to respect our elderly.... if they are being taught all of this confrontational behavior instead.

I cant comprehend anyone teaching their children to be defiant knowing all too well it could put their child in a dangerous situation if they took that dangerous negative lesson to heart. Parents should be teaching their children how to interact peacefully and calmly with others to do the right thing where any and all problems come to a peacefully resolution for all parties concerned including the child/children. If someone is stopped by a police officer I think they should remain calm and do what the officer asks them to do and if they don't agree with the charges then that is what courts are for. Same thing if they are served a warrant. Take the warrant and if the person believes it is in error then fight it in court with evidence to prove it.

Unless someone takes the time to teach many of these young teens and young adults to be compliant when interacting with a police officers who has stopped them in traffic or is serving a warrant of some kind....... we will continue to see cases just like this one happen. The common denominator in the vast majority of police shootings are when the person/s refused to comply to simple commands and instead thought being aggressive/hostile and violent toward the officers was the correct answer instead. Then some wonder why theses kind of confrontational violent people windup being shot by a police officer. Cases like this one are so preventable. Why that doesn't get across to a lot of people I don't guess I will ever understand.

IMO

 

[K_Z]

Sovereign nation, and groups of the sorts, IMO, prey on the mentally unstable. You have someone that feels wronged by the world, and a group telling them they are WRONGED and do NOT obey the laws, they don't have to, etc., and the mentally unstable pays the ultimate price. SMH. All the while those that head up these groups are making money off of others!

No different than the KKK, BLM, extreme militia groups, cults, etc. The ones in power use the weakness of the population to enforce their agenda.....never caring if it cost someone their life.

I don't know the answer obviously, but they are all wrong for preying on the vulnerable!!!!

Snipped and BBM.

Agree, 2Hope4, that ideologies such as the Sovereign Citizens "movement" are attractive to the intellectually vulnerable, who are preyed on by others looking to incite the unstable among the peaceful citizens.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of the most liberal, progressive institutions in this country-- their primary purpose is to champion the issues of those they perceive to be marginalized and downtrodden.

So when even the SPLC can't get behind supporting this kind of radicalized anarchy, and thinks they are "bizarre", and often engaged in "paper terrorism", and prone to violence against LE and other authorities, you have to really scratch your head!

Even the SPLC considers these "sovereign citizen" ideologies "bizarre" and dangerous promotion of anarchy. And the SPLC idealists can't wrap their collective minds around just "why" black people are the predominant embracers of the "sovereign citizen" movement-- which is historically rooted in black racism and antisemitism-- that would be kind of like "Black Lives Matter" activists starting chapters of the KKK or something!

So, its easy, IMO, to see how a perpetually aggrieved, and intellectually disadvantaged misfit (like KG) could embrace and espouse these kind of anarchist ideas. It's equally easy to see how her planned provocative traffic confrontation, and subsequent acting out, and ongoing refusal to cooperate, could lead to her actions pulling out a shotgun when police came to serve the warrant. It was just a matter of time before she killed herself, killed a cop, killed her kids, or killed someone else, IMO.

SOVEREIGN CITIZENS MOVEMENT

The strange subculture of the sovereign citizens movement, whose adherents hold truly bizarre, complex antigovernment beliefs, has been growing at a fast pace since the late 2000s. Sovereigns believe that they — not judges, juries, law enforcement or elected officials — get to decide which laws to obey and which to ignore, and they don't think they should have to pay taxes. Sovereigns are clogging up the courts with indecipherable filings and when cornered, many of them lash out in rage, frustration and, in the most extreme cases, acts of deadly violence, usually directed against government officials.

Recruits
In the late 2000s and early 2010s, most new recruits to the sovereign citizens movement are people who have found themselves in a desperate situation, often due to the economy or foreclosures, and are searching for a quick fix. Others are intrigued by the notions of easy money and living a lawless life, free from unpleasant consequences. Many self-identified sovereigns today are black and apparently completely unaware of the racist origins of their ideology. When they experience some small success at using redemption techniques to battle minor traffic offenses or local licensing issues, they're hooked. For many, it's a political issue. They don't like taxes, traffic laws, child support obligations or banking practices, but they are too impatient to try to change what they dislike through traditional, political means.

Violence
When a sovereign feels particularly desperate, angry, battle-weary and cornered, his next government contact, no matter how minor, can be his final straw. The resulting rage can be lethal. In 1995 in Ohio, a sovereign named Michael Hill pulled a gun on an officer during a traffic stop. Hill was killed. In 1997, New Hampshire extremist Carl Drega shot dead two officers and two civilians, and wounded another three officers before being killed himself. In that same year in Idaho, when brothers Doug and Craig Broderick were pulled over for failing to signal, they killed one officer and wounded another before being killed themselves in a violent gun battle. In December 2003, members of the Bixby family, who lived outside of Abbeville, S.C., killed two law enforcement officers in a dispute over a small sliver of land next to their home. And in May 2010, Jerry and Joseph Kane, a father and son sovereign team, shot to death two West Memphis, Ark., police officers who had pulled them over in a routine traffic stop. Later that day, the Kanes were killed in a fierce shootout with police that wounded two other officers.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

BBM.

 

[K_Z]

You are most likely right, KZ. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.

Perhaps some of them could be reached if the police came to schools and addressed this serious issue. Maybe some of it would sink in if they were away from the negative people in their lives at the time.

I just wish something could be done about all of this disrespect/defiance for authority we are seeing played out way too often now and its just not against our police officers either. It has become a widespread problem against all people in general.

It does make me wonder though .....rather than being taught at all to respect those in authority like our teachers or police officers or even to respect our elderly.... if they are being taught all of this confrontational behavior instead.

Respectfully snipped.

Yes, OBE, I do think there are people actively teaching their kids to resist, and fight, all forms of authority.

We can clearly see that in the video KG took of her March traffic stop where she repeatedly instructs her 5 yo to fight the police, and coaches him to repeat that police are coming to kill them.

Absolutely, there are many, many, many (IMO, adults) who are teaching exactly that to kids. Bringing police to schools won't help, because most of the kids, and yes, some of the teachers and staff, don't respect officers, or the law. Teachers themselves are "the enemy" in many inner city schools, because they represent "authority". We hear about kids being beat up for doing their homework, or have to have "secret" ways to turn in homework, so they can "save face" among their friends who reject education and the authority of teachers. Learning to read, graduating high school, holding a job, caring responsibly for the children one produces, and following laws, are all forms of "authority" that are rejected by an increasing swath of socially and intellectually devolving members of our society.

I don't think there is much we can do about these misfits, except continue to build more prisons, and help those that want to get away from those violent areas and people, and try to live peaceful, productive lives. It's not possible to have a peaceful, productive, successful life in a violent, inner city, IMO.

And we can vote for politicians who will strongly support law enforcement and the justice system. JMO.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Remember until the criminals outnumber the regular, folks the police are likely here to stay and I for one am happy they are.

With that said, as a society we should be the ones to determine what type of police force we want and how we expect them to respond. They work for us not the other way around. Below are some things that I think would go a long way towards starting to make things better. Also we need to keep in mind that criminals are not going to change so the police need to adapt to them not the other way around, so my suggestion are geared towards what the police can do but believe me I would have a long list of what criminals could do to help stop all the madness but they would not listen anyway. I also have some suggestions about things that us regular non-criminals can do to help.


Some of my thought for the police:
1. Any time the police discharge their weapon it should be looked into by a separate review board and not the police. It should be examined to determine if all procedures were followed, up to if anything criminal occurred. I think the days of the police, policing themselves should be over but I also think it should not be a witch-hunt designed to always find fault with the police.
2. When it is determined that an officer has done something wrong we need to stop sweeping it under the rug. The police need to stop circling the wagons around officers who’s actions are indefensible.
3. The bar needs to be set high before an officer should be allowed to take a life. Simply saying “I was afraid for my life” should not be an automatically free pass.
4. Use of deadly force should be the last resort. It should be used if the suspect is endangering the life of other people and the officers on scene.
5. Better training and evaluations to determine if an officer has the necessary temperament to have and use a deadly weapon.
6. All officers should be equipped with bodycams and if they are caught tampering with them they should be punished. If they are not doing anything wrong they should embrace this because it would help prove their version of events.
7. Police should be trained on desecration technics. I’ve seen examples where the police instead of simply issuing a ticket start saying things to the person they stopped that seem to be done with the intent of ratcheting up the intensity and to elicit a negative reaction.
8. Release as much information as possible when a shooting occurs without jeopardizing the case or the rights of the accused.

Some of my thoughts for us regular non-criminal types:
1. Keep your car in good repair to minimize your chances of being pulled over. I realize that many people feel that they are being profiled and this will not eliminate that but it will help by giving less cause for a stop.
2. If pulled over by the police act respectful.
3. Don’t argue with the police even if you are right. It’s ok to make your point but do it in a calm considerate manner. Don’t act snarky. The police aren’t stupid and will likely detect any sarcasm and it’s not going to help you.
4. If you feel like you were wronged take it up in court and not on the spot.
5. Take care of any outstanding tickets so that the police will have less reasons to interact with you.
6. If you really think the police are out to get you, try everything in your power to minimize your interactions with them.
7. Appreciate that the police have an extremely difficult job unlike any of us can imagine. They deal with people on a daily bases that most of us would never even want to meet
8. As a society we need to wait until all the facts come out before jumping to conclusions. It’s ok to speculate what might have occurred but investigations take time and demanding that people be fired or arrested before things can even be determined are not helpful and only incite anger and sometimes violence.

 

[human]

Looks like they are too busy going after traffic tickets. No time for rape

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/doj-report-baltimore-police-department-sexual-assault-victims.html

 

[Ladylub]

Yup. I think they do have reports. I posted the one about Jeff Hazlewood from GA up above.

I would think the reports for this one are so detailed about his behavior because his behavior is what caused someone to call LE on him. Korryn Gaines was initially a traffic stop.

 

[Ladylub]

Looks like they are too busy going after traffic tickets. No time for rape

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/doj-report-baltimore-police-department-sexual-assault-victims.html

This has something to do with Korryn Gaines pointing a gun at LE and threatening to shoot them? Be mad about this but lets look at the facts of KORRYN's case and only her case when speaking about what happened in her case.

 

[human]

I would think the reports for this one are so detailed about his behavior because his behavior is what caused someone to call LE on him. Korryn Gaines was initially a traffic stop.

I posted above what is required of LE for reports.

 

[Ladylub]

We are speaking about Korryn in this forum. You are bringing up other cases to explain why the police were wrong for shooting Korryn. You are now bringing up rape in Korryn's case saying they were to busy dealing with traffic violations then to deal with rape. There are more officers than the ones that went to pick up Korryn. Be mad but let's not use that article to weigh anything about Korryn pointing a gun at LE and threatening them b/c it has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Dogface]

How does the fact that other crimes weren't handled properly change the fact that they were serving a legal warrant? Are they suppose to just stop going after people with warrants because there are other crimes? I know where I live it is usually the same police who serve warrants, not just the regular cops working a beat. Why can't we focus on what happened here? Why are people bringing up things that have nothing to do with the circumstances of this case?

 

[scmom]

Mourners, including young son, attend funeral for Korryn Gaines

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-md-korryn-gaines-funeral-20160811-story.html

 

[human]

She was driving with a cardboard tag. I'm sure she was targeted because of her race. Not. I'm sure they issued a warrant for failing to appear because of her race. Nope again. Even a broke clock is right twice a day, just because they have issues within the department does not mean this case was one of them.

For me, the point is that the officer said that he knew her . If you recall in the traffic video.

I don't think anyone can dispute that she was acting totally strange on that traffic stop.She said she was into the sovereign nation with her ideas of what a citizen can do. As we all know, there are plenty of groups and people that think that the govt has no right to tell them anything. Think Malheur. Think David Koresh. Plenty of people out there who think the govt is not legit.

Those kind of ideas have presented LE with many problems. Think Posse Comitus.

So when someone starts spouting off those kind of ideas, it should be noted. The anti govt people have a proven track record of harm to civilians and LE alike. Proceeding with caution is a good idea .

 

[Greater Than]

Korryn Gaines, who was fatally shot in a stand-off with Baltimore Police, is the topic of this thread.

Please stay on topic.

Thanks.

 

[K_Z]

Kareem Courtney 39, the boyfriend of Korryn Gaines, the woman who was fatally shot by police last week, is facing nine charges after police found roughly 26.7 grams of heroin at the apartment he and Gaines shared.

When the apartment was being searched after the standoff, police found three bags containing 75 capsules of a white substance which, after forensic testing, was determined to be heroin.

http://www.afro.com/boyfriend-of-korryn-gaines-facing-drug-charges/

In her apartment, with an infant and 5 year old. Live in boyfriend facing 9 felonies. Boyfriend has previous convictions for attempted murder, firearms, and drugs. Real nice, upstanding guy, eh?

So maybe, just maybe, that adds a layer of understanding as to why Korryn Gaines was so willing and eager to take up that shotgun against the police at her door.

She alone made numerous choices that caused her own death.

Another source:

http://www.essence.com/2016/08/09/boyfriend-korryn-gaines-arrested-drugs-and-gun-possession

 

[galiuro]

For me, the point is that the officer said that he knew her . If you recall in the traffic video.

I don't think anyone can dispute that she was acting totally strange on that traffic stop.She said she was into the sovereign nation with her ideas of what a citizen can do. As we all know, there are plenty of groups and people that think that the govt has no right to tell them anything. Think Malheur. Think David Koresh. Plenty of people out there who think the govt is not legit.

Those kind of ideas have presented LE with many problems. Think Posse Comitus.

So when someone starts spouting off those kind of ideas, it should be noted. The anti govt people have a proven track record of harm to civilians and LE alike. Proceeding with caution is a good idea .

It seems to me that the police DID proceed with caution...she proved every bit as crazy as they thought she was. So because of her craziness, the cops should just back off and let her go?

 

[galiuro]

http://www.afro.com/boyfriend-of-korryn-gaines-facing-drug-charges/

In her apartment, with an infant and 5 year old. Live in boyfriend facing 9 felonies. Boyfriend has previous convictions for attempted murder, firearms, and drugs. Real nice, upstanding guy, eh?

So maybe, just maybe, that adds a layer of understanding as to why Korryn Gaines was so willing and eager to take up that shotgun against the police at her door.

She alone made numerous choices that caused her own death.

An attempted murderer and he runs to the cops to get away from her...

 

[K_Z]

This is interesting-- I had no idea until today that police were at the apartment to serve BOTH Korryn Gaines AND her boyfriend, Kareem Courtney, with arrest warrants. BOTH of them. Not just Korryn Gaines.

See, for me, that sheds a lot of new light on the whole situation.

And in this news release from Baltimore County Police, we find out that the heroin was found pursuant to a valid search warrant. AND-- it was found in the KITCHEN. Where a 1 year old and a 5 year old have access to food.

Courtney was in the Sulky Road apartment with Gaines Monday morning when police went to serve warrants on each of them; Courtney's warrant was for second-degree assault, and Gaines' was a failure to appear bench warrant for traffic violations -- including resisting arrest -- incurred during a March 10 traffic stop. Courtney was arrested Monday when he left the apartment minutes after the warrant service officers announced their presence.

Homicide detectives found the heroin during execution of a search warrant at the apartment; this was part of their criminal investigation of the police-involved shooting. Three bags containing 75 capsules of an off-white substance -- later determined through forensic examination to be heroin -- were found in the kitchen. The heroin totaled 26.7 grams.

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Ne...em_Courtney_Charged_With_Heroin_Distribution_