Members' Theories

[SapphireSteel]

Was just looking into John's behavior post-Jonbenet, and I have to say it matches that of other narcissistic murderers who "got away with it" to a T.

He's appeared on multiple TV shows--Barbara Walters most recently--to talk about his loss and how tragic his life has been. He co-authored the infamous book with his wife in an attempt to draw sympathy/look innocent. Then he authored another book by himself. (Remember OJ's book "If I Did It?" He just had to flaunt the fact that he got away with it). He also dated a high-profile woman whose daughter was abducted - Beth Holloway.

John also claims to have been a victim of "an intruder" in 2001, which just happened to be the same day as his lawyer appeared on the Today Show. The whole robbery story is VERY questionable from beginning to end. Oh, and he ran for public office a few years before his wife died. Is that something a normal person would do when they are openly hated by most of America and have been fighting negative press for years? No, but it's something a narcissist would do.

My point? I think John is addicted to looking like a victim, much like a Munchausen sufferer is addicted to attention. After losing Beth he probably got a lot of attention and sympathy. I think it broke him emotionally, as he was heard wailing in the attic after she died. That might've been the turning point where his mind became warped and he formed an unhealthy relationship with Jonbenet. Maybe he was craving more attention when he killed her? He was an avid true crime reader who may have planned some of the elements of the murder in advance...or at least fantasized about it. Books were found in the home that contained details eerily similar to the crime scene. At the very least, his knowledge of such things helped in the subsequent coverup.

Women are more likely to suffer from Munchausen-like behavior, but men can have it too. Killers--especially those who get away with it--often think they're smarter than everyone else and can't help but flaunt this fact in a very public way. Case-in-point: Chase Merritt, who killed the McStay family, was planning to write a book implicating someone else and had appeared on a CNN special about the crime. And then there's Robert Durst, who recently appeared in a 6-part HBO series about his insane life.

TL;DR - John's behavior since his daughter's death has been consistent with that of other narcissistic murderers who got away with it. I don't mean to imply that John has Munchausen's; only that he is an attention-seeking sympathy hog who looks very suspicious from a behavioral standpoint.

MOO, of course

I totally agree

I also wonder whether or not Beths brakes were fiddled with

I bet no one checked

 

[SapphireSteel]

According to a state police report, Elizabeth Ramsey was a passenger in the car, which went out of control on rain-slicked I-55 at County Line Road and collided with a truck.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...et-ramsey-ramsey-investigation-boulder-police

I was right - no one checked - it was written off as a wet weather accident. It was her Boyfriends Car...jealous much John? Was Beth not supposed to be killed, just the Competition? Or heck, take them both out because Beth had told her boyfriend about her abuse!

Ive driven in a lot of wet weather and not once lost control on a highway...~!!!

WHAT IF....JR is a Serial killer? It's happened multiple times before, some white wealthy egotistical dude whose way of ridding himself of irritants is Murder. See: Michael Peterson.

 

[Meara]

This is the first post on the thread:

This is a thread for members to post their theory or theories. It's not a discussion thread.

Here's how to use it--

Create a new post and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory.

If you have more than one theory, then call them (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (1) and WSPoster's Theory (2) but put them in separate posts.

Remember - do not use this thread for discussion. If you wish to discuss another member's theory, start a new thread and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (2) - Discussion.

It will be interesting to compare the theories. You should aim to answer such questions as--

(i) Who the perp was
(ii) What the motive was
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left
(iv) What caused the head blow
(v) How long the perp was in the house
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since)
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others?

If anyone wishes to post a theory anonymously, send me a PM.

NB -- Do not name any private individuals (i.e. give them a pseudonym).

 

[Meara]

This is the first post on the thread:

This is a thread for members to post their theory or theories. It's not a discussion thread.

Here's how to use it--

Create a new post and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory.

If you have more than one theory, then call them (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (1) and WSPoster's Theory (2) but put them in separate posts.

Remember - do not use this thread for discussion. If you wish to discuss another member's theory, start a new thread and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (2) - Discussion.

It will be interesting to compare the theories. You should aim to answer such questions as--

(i) Who the perp was
(ii) What the motive was
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left
(iv) What caused the head blow
(v) How long the perp was in the house
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since)
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others?

If anyone wishes to post a theory anonymously, send me a PM.

NB -- Do not name any private individuals (i.e. give them a pseudonym).

 

[Juniorsleuther]

Okay I am a new poster but have been reading for years so here it goes... My theory and believe me I have been all over the place with this one. Involves patsy! I think patsy acted alone, I believe patsy was a sociopath, I believe patsy was pure evil. There is something when looking at that last picture taken of patsy on Christmas Day 1996 with jonbenet the look in patsy eyes and the clench she has on jonbenet's arm that said a lot to me. Anyways let me get down to business, that night when arriving home I believe jonbenet was a asleep and carried to bed. However I do believe Patsy woke jonbenet up! I was thinking to possible scenarios, they were leaving to go on a trip and Patsy had more wrapping to do could she have possibly woke jonbenet up to help her with the wrapping? 6 year old kids are not very useful in this regard but quite possible that Patsy Ramsey had high expectations for jonbenet ? And being sociopathic Patsy could deal with jonbenet and her sudden attitude towards her. Quite possibly jonbenet became defiant, wanted to go back to bed and Patsy lost it ! Staged the whole thing ? Or this Jonbenet was being molested by Patsy Ramsey! I truly believe that there is something sinister about that woman, I believe jonbenet was afraid of Patsy! She was controlling manipulative and mean when she didn't get her way. Another thing is jonbenet said that she missed her father and wished he was home more ? I truly think Patsy was sick ! And had many disorders we are not aware of ! I think Patsy was overwhelmed with her sociopathic tendencies and which ever mental illness and she killed jonbenet. I also think she is her molester, and staged the whole scene. I think the reason this crime makes no sense is because Patsy wasn't never in her right mind in the way a normal thinking person would think IMO of course. I think mental illness has a lot to do with it. She had such a image to present it is clear to me this woman couldn't manage being a mother in most ways! She hired help for everything. The house was insanely messy that morning. And what threw me off the deep end is how could you not remember when. You bathed your child. I think Patsy was out to lunch and clearly not emotionally available for those children. I am truly convinced either Patsy killed jonbenet in some phycotic rage or she premeditated her murder. With that being said IMO The 3 page ransom note, the area in which jonbenet was found and the condition she was found in ! Screams to me Patsy. I think JR suspected Patsy, but didn't want to believe it ! This whole thing is disgusting, she was highly medicated before and after jonbenet and it is clear to me that PR was a very sick individual and poor JBR feel victim to her luckily for patsy JR backed her with his wealth! I often wonder who was the one whom took control of the interviews, suggested them? I guess we will never know for sure but thing I truly feel certain about is PR molested, and killed her daughter! She had a sick obsession with jonbenet!

 

[icedtea4me]

According to a state police report, Elizabeth Ramsey was a passenger in the car, which went out of control on rain-slicked I-55 at County Line Road and collided with a truck.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...et-ramsey-ramsey-investigation-boulder-police

I was right - no one checked - it was written off as a wet weather accident. It was her Boyfriends Car...jealous much John? Was Beth not supposed to be killed, just the Competition? Or heck, take them both out because Beth had told her boyfriend about her abuse!

Ive driven in a lot of wet weather and not once lost control on a highway...~!!!

WHAT IF....JR is a Serial killer? It's happened multiple times before, some white wealthy egotistical dude whose way of ridding himself of irritants is Murder. See: Michael Peterson.

Well, if you haven't, then I guess that means no one else ever has.

 

[Annapurna]

Its pretty far-fetched to imagine that JR somehow managed to have his daughter's boyfriend's car sabotaged from several states away. That sounds like something in a bad movie.

Accidents do happen.

 

[Francesca]

Patsy is feeling vulnerable and insecure in her marriage after a long illness and with the age of 40 looming. Jon Benet confides in her over a plate of pineapple that Daddy is sexually abusing her. We want to believe that a woman's first instinct is to storm out of the family home to protect her children, but we know that women who are financially dependent will often think of the family security rather than the individual safety of one child. So when Jon Benet reveals the secret, Patsy's first instinct is to lash out and hit Jon Benet who is knocked unconscious.

Panicked, Patsy goes running for John and tells him what she has done... and why. John realizes that Jon Benet needs urgent medical attention but if the authorities become involved, he will be exposed as a pedophile. So he tells Patsy to leave him to deal with it. He kills JB, and stages a gruesome crime scene to make it look so terrible, no parent could possibly be involved. Then he goes back to Patsy and tells her that she killed Jon Benet, but he has set up the scene to protect her. Patsy is devastated that she has killed her beautiful beloved daughter, and she depends heavily on John to "protect" her from being caught. She goes along with all his directions, although at one point eventually, she realizes that the manner of JB's death means that she was not actually the one who killed her. By then she is sick again, and too vulnerable and too far implicated to tell the truth.

 

[Justice4JB]

Well I dont think I have introduced myself to the forums yet..
My name is Baraa and I'm currently 23 years old so I was just 4 when JonBenet was murdered in 1996..
I'm an arabian from Jordan (a country that has borders with Palestine, Iraq and Syria), I'm saying this because first, I want you guys to excuse my imperfect English since its not my mother language and unfortunately, I don't speak it at all here..and secondly, because I want you guys to know that we have children murdered and killed each and everyday in our region because of the critical political situation and the warfares that is been going around here in the past decades..
JonBenet's murder was yet another indication of how much we as human beings have degraded to this level, whether in wars or in single crimes.. to have our children killed and murdered in wars in the name of "looking for peace in the world"..or in case of single crimes, to achieve certain selfish and sick desires that were in the mind of many of these murderers is something that is awfully painful..

I first heard about JonBenet when the whole John Mark Karr dogma started in 2006, the case caught my attention and I have since been studying the case to the point that now after 10 years I think I pretty much know so much about the case..

Unlike many of you guys I don't hacve a specific theory about what happened at that night on December 25th 1996, I cant say that I'm a supporter of the RDI theories nor I can say that about the IDI theories..

I have my own "beliefs" about certain things..

For Example, I believe that the ramseys knows more than what they said they know..
I believe that the ramseys holds a big responsibility about what happened whether they are the killers or not, since they sexualized JonBenet by letting her enter pageants which stole her childhood..

But at the same time I believe that the BPD made so many mistakes including focusing on the ramseys and excluding all IDI theories since I believe at that point they should have examined every possible scenario..

I believe the DA was pathetic throughout the case and they were specifically wrong when they cleared the ramseys in 2008 and apologized to them based on DNA evidence which imo is not conclusive by any means..

I also don't feel sorry for the ramseys being "under the umbrella of suspicion" even if they were innocent, since they put themselves in that position by not cooperating with the BPD since day 1..

That was a brief about myself and my views on the case..
looking forward to discuss aspects of the crime with you guys..

Peace..

 

[Deleted member 165916]

Forgive me. I tried but failed to read every theory here. Mine has never changed. Simply put: Intruder known to family, with accomplice not known to family. Suspect #1, crews on JR sailboat. Almost, not quite, friend/guest. Overhears annual bonus figure conversation with actual friend/guest. Enlists suspect #2, irregular wharf-rat (crews around yacht club, not permanent.) #2 botches everything. Her head strikes a door frame, she's having seizure by the bottom of the stairs. #1 cannot carry out original plan. The note has already been written and planted. Must abort. #1 kills #2 by any method. Now only one person knows the secret. Look at the sailing community.

 

[cady]

I think Burke hit her over the head with the flashlight (which was subsequently wiped clean, including the batteries. Johnbenet was non-responsive and the parents thought that she was dead, so staged all the rest, rather than losing Burke to the criminal justice system. They denied owning the flashlight, which the head of matches the dimensions of the head fracture...they denied that she ate pineapple, which was found in her small intestine and was consumed 1 to 2 hours before she DIED. They denied that he was heard in the background on the 911 call. When he was quickly shuttled off to the Whites house, it was reported that he never asked why the police were at his house. He can never confess for obvious reasons, but also because if he did his still LIVING father would be implicated in the cover-up, as well as his now DECEASED mother. If one or the other of the parents had done it out of anger,I think that it is likely that we would have learned the truth a long time ago. They stuck together to protect their son. JMO

 

[johnjay]

I think Burke hit her over the head with the flashlight (which was subsequently wiped clean, including the batteries. Johnbenet was non-responsive and the parents thought that she was dead, so staged all the rest, rather than losing Burke to the criminal justice system. They denied owning the flashlight, which the head of matches the dimensions of the head fracture...they denied that she ate pineapple, which was found in her small intestine and was consumed 1 to 2 hours before she DIED. They denied that he was heard in the background on the 911 call. When he was quickly shuttled off to the Whites house, it was reported that he never asked why the police were at his house. He can never confess for obvious reasons, but also because if he did his still LIVING father would be implicated in the cover-up, as well as his now DECEASED mother. If one or the other of the parents had done it out of anger,I think that it is likely that we would have learned the truth a long time ago. They stuck together to protect their son. JMO

It's my understanding that JonBenet died from being strangled. I find it hard to believe that either parent would do that. I think both parents would have had to be very convinced that she was dead for them not to call or medical help. So I don't think they could have found her before signs of death were more than obvious.

 

[Foreign Faction]

After reading the posts here, I learned even a few more things that reinforce my opinion of Burke as the one who administered the blow to the head, which would have been fatal if not for the strangulation. Is it based on an overload of indisputable evidence? No. Is it based though in a thorough taking-in of things at face value, using logic, my knowledge of human psychology/aberrant behavior, particularly youth (I'm a psychologist and university professor), and my "gut instinct" coupled with a firm belief in Occam's Razor theory? Yes. It all leads to Burke in some manner and/or form.

I'm not one that admits to hearing any young voice on the 911 call, BTW, so not sure what to make of that.

What bothers me the most about this case, and my belief BDI, is why JR and PR would go through this whole ridiculous charade for an obviously troubled child, who NEEDED professional help. To my logical mind, there are two possible answers to this: either they loved their child so much that they would risk EVERYTHING to cover for him (believable, but knowing both Ramsey's psyches, a little bit of a stretch), OR that there were other secrets that they would be hiding and covering up for in the course of covering up and shielding Burke (more likely).

I have been a Columbine researcher for the last several years, and only got interested in this case recently, so I wasn't too immersed in the JBR case culture to get caught up in the various theories, red herrings, dialogue, petty arguments, ad nauseum. The BDI theory in my opinion is the only one that explains a lot of the supporting evidence AS WELL AS some of the legal and LE actions, ramifications, and impotence/ineffectiveness that has persisted over the past two decades.

As a JBR outsider on this forum and others, I guess that's all I have to say. I'll leave it to more seasoned writers/researchers to hash it all out. If I had the time and inclination, and wasn't afraid of litigation, I would probably be interested in writing a book about this theory at length using a wealth of academic research on children's violence. I wish you all the best in your search for the truth.

 

[InstantProof]

What bothers me the most about this case, and my belief BDI, is why JR and PR would go through this whole ridiculous charade for an obviously troubled child, who NEEDED professional help. To my logical mind, there are two possible answers to this: either they loved their child so much that they would risk EVERYTHING to cover for him (believable, but knowing both Ramsey's psyches, a little bit of a stretch), OR that there were other secrets that they would be hiding and covering up for in the course of covering up and shielding Burke (more likely).

I think there were other secrets to cover, but mostly they were concerned with their image of being perfect people.

 

[Foreign Faction]

After reading the posts here, I learned even a few more things that reinforce my opinion of Burke as the one who administered the blow to the head, which would have been fatal if not for the strangulation. Is it based on an overload of indisputable evidence? No. Is it based though in a thorough taking-in of things at face value, using logic, my knowledge of human psychology/aberrant behavior, particularly youth (I'm a psychologist and university professor), and my "gut instinct" coupled with a firm belief in Occam's Razor theory? Yes. It all leads to Burke in some manner and/or form.

I'm not one that admits to hearing any young voice on the 911 call, BTW, so not sure what to make of that.

What bothers me the most about this case, and my belief BDI, is why JR and PR would go through this whole ridiculous charade for an obviously troubled child, who NEEDED professional help. To my logical mind, there are two possible answers to this: either they loved their child so much that they would risk EVERYTHING to cover for him (believable, but knowing both Ramsey's psyches, a little bit of a stretch), OR that there were other secrets that they would be hiding and covering up for in the course of covering up and shielding Burke (more likely).

I have been a Columbine researcher for the last several years, and only got interested in this case recently, so I wasn't too immersed in the JBR case culture to get caught up in the various theories, red herrings, dialogue, petty arguments, ad nauseum. The BDI theory in my opinion is the only one that explains a lot of the supporting evidence AS WELL AS some of the legal and LE actions, ramifications, and impotence/ineffectiveness that has persisted over the past two decades.

As a JBR outsider on this forum and others, I guess that's all I have to say. I'll leave it to more seasoned writers/researchers to hash it all out. If I had the time and inclination, and wasn't afraid of litigation, I would probably be interested in writing a book about this theory at length using a wealth of academic research on children's violence. I wish you all the best in your search for the truth.

 

[Springrain]

The BDI theory in my opinion is the only one that explains a lot of the supporting evidence AS WELL AS some of the legal and LE actions, ramifications, and impotence/ineffectiveness that has persisted over the past two decades.

I agree, and this is the reason I am BDI.

I do think that many people won't listen to BDI theorizing because, after I state that I believe her brother had some part in it, they say "A 9 year old wouldn't do that." Yeah, great rebuttal, right? While I do try to listen and be respectful of all views, whether they oppose my theory or not, I am not all that happy when people don't even listen.

 

[Sister Socks 007]

It's my understanding that JonBenet died from being strangled. I find it hard to believe that either parent would do that. I think both parents would have had to be very convinced that she was dead for them not to call or medical help. So I don't think they could have found her before signs of death were more than obvious.

Actually they're unsure what came first the hit or the strangling! Just say!

 

[neesaki]

I think Burke hit her over the head with the flashlight (which was subsequently wiped clean, including the batteries. Johnbenet was non-responsive and the parents thought that she was dead, so staged all the rest, rather than losing Burke to the criminal justice system. They denied owning the flashlight, which the head of matches the dimensions of the head fracture...they denied that she ate pineapple, which was found in her small intestine and was consumed 1 to 2 hours before she DIED. They denied that he was heard in the background on the 911 call. When he was quickly shuttled off to the Whites house, it was reported that he never asked why the police were at his house. He can never confess for obvious reasons, but also because if he did his still LIVING father would be implicated in the cover-up, as well as his now DECEASED mother. If one or the other of the parents had done it out of anger,I think that it is likely that we would have learned the truth a long time ago. They stuck together to protect their son. JMO

That makes the most sense to me as well, I have a hard time believing PR would kill her little girl over wetting the bed, or anything else for that matter.

 

[ElleElle]

If BDI, why couldn't they have called an ambulance? Accidents do happen.
Or maybe, they wanted to cover the sexual abuse as well ...

 

[Grimes]

Finally, I get a chance to post my theory! I've had it for so long that it's ridiculous. It's about what might have been going on in the Ramsey household. It involves the suspect John Mark Karr who confessed to the murder, but was found to have an alibi. Because he was elsewhere at the time of JonBenet's death, he was dismissed as a suspect, but was he really involved? My theory is that he was.

If anyone remembers, Karr wrote “Fin Mecontente,” a 139-page journal detailing the crime. He alleged things like putting the noose around her neck fantasizing it was a necklace. And he said her death was the result of a "sex game" gone wrong. Okay, here's the theory:

What if what he said were true and what if it were an ONLINE sex game? Like a closed streaming video where he told the gamemaster or person controlling the game what to do. This might have involved a group of men each paying for the opportunity to have a closed session with one or more children, but obviously, one of the children was JonBenet. They would pay, the session would be set up, and the payee would live out their twisted sexual fantasies through the internet. Unfortunately, this night, Jon Benet was accidentally killed.

John Ramsey ran a software company and was into technology. And it might be why the lights were blazing all night long. The Ramseys and whoever else involved were forced to put together a hastily conceived plan because they were only conducting an online sex role playing game, but now they had a murder on their hands.

It does fit, but whether it's true ... well, that's something different. And remember, Karr was taking so many drugs, that it's very possible in his deluded state that he imagined himself doing these things and that's why he thought he had done them. Of course psychologically, there would be tremendous guilt so really, he would be responsible.