Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

[Allusonz]

I keep putting that meaning FR. I apologize.

I blame things like this on my "blonde moments" My story sticking to it :giggle:

 

[wasnt_me]

This was in relation to cellmate vs prison mate. The later article said that he is in the same ward, not in the same cell. A lot of media had this wrong at first. I don't even know if these sex offenders have cellmates. If the story isn't unbelievable enough, that Alessi is his prison mate makes it IMO only more unbelievable. He claims that RG came to him with his story during an open air break.

http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/New-evidence-or-jailhouse-desperation-in-Knox-887799.php

This is the guy I'd been referring to, and this statement:


Sollecito's attorneys requested authorization from the Bologna Court of Appeals and sent their legal assistants to videotape Alessi's statement in Viterbo, where he is detained in the same sex crimes section of the prison.



Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/default/ar...-desperation-in-Knox-887799.php#ixzz1JMGGEj2v

Obviously outilines that he's not in the same section with RG. thanks!

This is my point, though, with all the right or wrong things being printed, all the lies told by the people directly involved as well as witnesses who want have a part in the case, it is way too hard to descern the truth in the case. That's why citing just becomes important. That way, we can get to at least the facts between what we've read.

Thanks again!

 

[otto]

Which would of been 10 years NOT 14 as I have pointed out before and Miley went to a great amount of research

30 - 10 = 20

I think you forgot to include the reduction from the first appeal.

 

[Allusonz]

And who in the world is "RF?" I can't think of anyone in this case who belongs to those initials, and I keep seeing them and it's driving me a teensy bit crazy :crazy:

OMG Flourish you are back : poor wasn't was close to receiving a bottle of wine as she was going to have a similar nail fetish :innocent:

 

[otto]

Isn't it great that Miley did a drive by, threw an old, much discussed topic at the thread, and then disappeared?

 

[Allusonz]

I think you forgot to include the reduction from the first appeal.

Nope as Mileys research shows I simply cannot find it.

 

[Allusonz]

You may want to read through the discussion I linked on this website ... all the points are addressed, including a link to Italian law regarding the 1/3 reduction. That same link is also quickly found by searching google: Italian law.

Which again would be 10 years. I must agree with Miley on this it appears he received the reduction as he apologized as being one of the major reasons

 

[otto]

Nope as Mileys research shows I simply cannot find it.

That's weird, since I just posted this:

"The appeal court had reduced Guede's sentence to 24 years and cut one-third off as is custom when defendants opt for a fast-track trial, said Francesco Maresca, a lawyer representing Kercher's family, who argued for the original sentence to be left unchanged.

"Twenty-four years would be in line with the sentences given to Knox and Sollecito," he said. "They each got an extra year for simulating a burglary at the scene and Knox got a further year for falsely blaming a local barman for the murder."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/22/rudy-guede-sentence-kercher-murder

 

[wasnt_me]

There you have it. Italian law stipulates that any person that opts for the fast track option will have their final sentence reduced by one third.

Let's ignore this fact. Instead, let's believe that Rudy, who opted for the fast track trial, did not have his sentence reduced by one third. Let's believe that the courts violated the law in Rudy's case. Let's believe instead that Rudy's sentence was reduced by one third because he said sorry, not because the law required that his sentence be reduced by one third.

the post you quoted says this at the end:

In explaining the attenuating circumstances, the judges also mention the fact that Guede is the "only" one of the defendants to have said he was sorry to the Kercher family, "even if it (the apology) was only for not having been able to save Meredith," and not for his role in her killing.

Additionally, that post seemed to assert that the lawyer was the one comparing RG's new sentence to AK and RS's, not that the court had done that.

You know, I don't care at this point if the apology did it or not, because Otto was right about their being more important things to talk about.

 

[Allusonz]

The specific post to which you were responding had to do with the slope of the road from both directions and headlights.

A single shot showing a clear view of FR's window from one particular point in the road during the day tells us little to nothing of how protected that window may have felt to someone casing the upstairs apartment. For one thing, a car's headlights don't point to the side, so someone breaking into the window would not be visible to a passing car in that position at night.

The 167 feet is from the exit of the car park to the balcony. As the road continues down the hill, it gets much closer to the balcony. That particular aerial shot with distances marked is just another straw man argument. I can't tell from the aerial shot exactly where the balcony would be visible, but the "167 feet" figure is bogus.

(ETA in a later post, otto mentions that the 167 feet figure corresponds to a standing-person's-eye view, looking toward the cottage. So I apologize for my use of the word "bogus." The figure chosen is not the only possible vantage point, but it was not chosen at random.)

Man next they will be telling me that they look backwards while driving in Italy as that would appear to be the only way to see that window coming from that direction

 

[Allusonz]

I don't believe I said anyone knows everything. Obviously, I argue with otto all the time and, also obviously, I disagree with many of his conclusions.

My point was that some allowance must be made for the fact that this discussion has been going on for 4 years; you and I have come into it relatively recently. If some of the "old timers" don't want to go searching for links they have supplied many times before, I think some understanding on our part is only fair.

That doesn't mean you have to concede the point. Agreeing to disagree should suffice.

Sorry I have to disagree. If an assertion is made such as AK seducing the prison priest and their employees I want the cite whether an individual has been here 1 day or 10 years. Sorry I am still awaiting that cite from Otto as I firmly believe that many that he stated were seduced are simply trying to earn a living

 

[otto]

the post you quoted says this at the end:

In explaining the attenuating circumstances, the judges also mention the fact that Guede is the "only" one of the defendants to have said he was sorry to the Kercher family, "even if it (the apology) was only for not having been able to save Meredith," and not for his role in her killing.

Additionally, that post seemed to assert that the lawyer was the one comparing RG's new sentence to AK and RS's, not that the court had done that.

Isn't that nice that he apologized. It still has nothing to do with the fact that all fast track trial sentences are reduced by one third.

Rudy's sentence was reduced on first appeal to 24 years after Amanda and Raffaele had been sentenced to 24 years for the very same crime.

 

[wasnt_me]

Isn't that nice that he apologized. It still has nothing to do with the fact that all fast track trial sentences are reduced by one third.

Rudy's sentence was reduced on first appeal to 24 years after Amanda and Raffaele had been sentenced to 24 years for the very same crime.

Thanks, I was editing my post to say I didn't even care about it anymore, because you were right in that we have other things to discuss.

 

[Allusonz]

To understand the argument on the other side, you must understand the language it's using. It is not disputing that there is luminol evidence. It's disputing what the luminol uncovered means and it's asserting that the luminol did NOT uncover it due to blood. No one is disputing that the luminol uncovered something.

Luminol is a pre-emptive test to detect for blood. Since it reacts with over 240 different items a secondary test is usually done.

In this particular case, Stephanoni testified that the luminol prints were not tested for blood and she was outed in July 2009 that the luminol prints had indeed been tested with TMB thus no blood in the luminol prints

 

[Allusonz]

So far, I'm on the side of reasonable doubt. We can't get to any other evidence yet where I might find some unreasonable doubt because we keep going over this same stuff.

I did argue that FR's window provided cover or at least was less risky that than exposed balcony. I additionally argued that her room was the target, since she had the rent money--however, RG may have gleaned that information. Your point at the end is well-taken, especially considering that students all around that place were vacating for the holiday. Isn't that correct? There would be less traffic in general if this were the case. Perfect time for a burglary.

Alot of valid arguments here. I have yet to see better ones to date

 

[otto]

Sorry I have to disagree. If an assertion is made such as AK seducing the prison priest and their employees I want the cite whether an individual has been here 1 day or 10 years. Sorry I am still awaiting that cite from Otto as I firmly believe that many that he stated were seduced are simply trying to earn a living

Perhaps you will find this entertaining: Italian MP's controversial book about Foxy Knoxy reads like a romance novel and reveals his bizarre dreams about the killer

"He writes: 'In my hand she places her pink iPod, which plays incessantly The Beatles. I hesitate. I look at it. Then I look at her.

She tells me 'This is a gift for you,' looking straight into my eyes.'

Breathlessly Mr Girlanda, 45, an MP with ruling Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party, adds: 'The conversation continues, until I wake up...I realise my taxi ride with Amanda was just a dream.

'It is not the first dream in which Amanda appears. It will not be the last.'

Later he writes how Knox asked if she could hug him and perhaps unwisely for an MP, he lets her: 'A hug, a request that I don't expect. I blush. She holds me, I hold her. It's a never ending embrace, without a word.

'If I said I didn't feel any emotion I would be lying. Maybe my face reveals that.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...da-Knox-like-romance-novel.html#ixzz1InO8wtOX

 

[Allusonz]

I don't think valid/invalid is the right term here. The problem wasn't the validity or lack of validity of luminol evidence, it was in the interpretation of the evidence without substantive factual reasoning. The luminol evidence existed, but we don't know what the substance was that reacted with the luminol, we only know that there was no blood detected in the reactive material, and no smearing to indicate blood cleanup.

If I recall, this is a contentious point because of the potential perjury referenced in this thread - Allusionz (along with many others, I just recall her posts on the matter more specifically) is far more capable of speaking to that than I am as she is more familiar with those details of the case.

Your right CM. Luminol reacts with a number of things. Once there is a reaction it should be photographed and tested for blood. In these prints they were tested with TMB. Stephanoni perjured herself

 

[flourish]

OMG Flourish you are back : poor wasn't was close to receiving a bottle of wine as she was going to have a similar nail fetish :innocent:

Never left, just been lurking b/c I got tired of being part of the merry-go-'round...don't worry, though, our wine is aging in my cellar as we speak, and I've put out an order for designer straight-jackets for all regular posters on this thread, as, although Allusonz and I need ours NOW, I'm pretty sure we're ALL gonna need them eventually, as this case is enough to drive anyone completely INSANE :crazy: :crazy:

Not to be OT, though, I will thank "wasn't me" for answering my question so promptly...LOL, now that will be one little thing that won't drive me crazy Also, I'd like to offer a belated "welcome to the thread" to "wasn't me," too

Also, I agree with Otto on the reduction of RG's sentence, both the math and the reasoning.

And I did have a question perhaps someone can answer for me. About the rent money--am I correct that FR collected the rent monies or did MK? Where exactly was the money and was it indeed missing after the murder and alleged burglary? TIA ya'll

 

[otto]

Luminol is a pre-emptive test to detect for blood. Since it reacts with over 240 different items a secondary test is usually done.

In this particular case, Stephanoni testified that the luminol prints were not tested for blood and she was outed in July 2009 that the luminol prints had indeed been tested with TMB thus no blood in the luminol prints

The substance was tested for blood using chemicals that are more sensitive to blood. The court concluded that it was most likely haematic substance, and not juice.

 

[Allusonz]

Perhaps you will find this entertaining: Italian MP's controversial book about Foxy Knoxy reads like a romance novel and reveals his bizarre dreams about the killer

"He writes: 'In my hand she places her pink iPod, which plays incessantly The Beatles. I hesitate. I look at it. Then I look at her.

She tells me 'This is a gift for you,' looking straight into my eyes.'

Breathlessly Mr Girlanda, 45, an MP with ruling Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party, adds: 'The conversation continues, until I wake up...I realise my taxi ride with Amanda was just a dream.

'It is not the first dream in which Amanda appears. It will not be the last.'

Later he writes how Knox asked if she could hug him and perhaps unwisely for an MP, he lets her: 'A hug, a request that I don't expect. I blush. She holds me, I hold her. It's a never ending embrace, without a word.

'If I said I didn't feel any emotion I would be lying. Maybe my face reveals that.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...da-Knox-like-romance-novel.html#ixzz1InO8wtOX

I deal in facts not dreams