Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[Nova]

I haven't said that a short story is a blueprint for crime, nor have I said that everyone that writes rape trash goes on to commit murder. What I said is that Amanda is a dull, uninteresting person. Further discussion led to me elaborating on my opinion of her character, and describing her as producing violent writings, amongst other undesirable traits such as being a liar of the worst kind and et cetera.

So ... did Amanda grow up in a home with parents that installed 1000 TV channels, of which hundreds are devoted to violence? Any child would be messed up growing up in a broken home with that kind of entertainment ... don't you think, or am I wrong?

Having hundreds of cable TV channels is very common here, otto. Whether or not it's good for children would require its own thread. (Personally, I loved horror movies as a kid and it didn't make me a violent person. But then we didn't have hundreds of channels and I didn't spend 7 hours a day in front of the tube or playing video games.)

Otherwise, your post seems self-contradictory to me. On the one hand you insist Amanda is dull (and I repeat that you don't know her; your insistence that she is dull is just as unfounded as the views of groupies who insist she is charming). On the other hand, you seem to think she is obsessed with violence, something which may be a lot of things a sign of pathology to a mere fetish, none of which are considered dull.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much, otto. I've since heard some brief recordings of RG from Halloween. I can't tell whether his exaggerated pronunciation is a reflection of his knowledge of English or just his fooling around.

So I'm not sure what a "working knowledge" is. I have a working knowledge of Spanish in some subjects (often not very useful ones: I can discuss Cervantes, Lope and Calderon), but I don't know if I could negotiate a murder conspiracy with strangers... in a hurry... while stoned.

I get the impression he could speak English, but wouldn't understand technical terminology.

 

[Nova]

I understand about the lawsuits being legion in this case; and that Mignini's might possibly be a defensive and not an offensive move. I also understand that Mignini had a job to do, and got "caught up", as it were. I will not attribute evil motives to him. I think , though, that the theory wound up being full of holes. Mignini is not a wholly unsympathetic character, IMO, and I was surprised at how vulnerable and nervous he appeared on CNN. I also think he is quite handsome. I just think these 2 young people should not be ruined on so little evidence. No Mignini bashing on my part. :innocent: ( altho he really does lie like a horse :razz: )

I don't share your regard for Mignini, but I trust that you know more of him than I.

But we all know the old adage: "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Despite attempts at reform, the current Italian criminal justice system invests enormous power in judges and prosecutors: judges even get to sit on their own juries! I see few checks or balances, though perhaps I will feel differently when the appellate court rules.

But the ability of prosecutors to charge anyone who is critical of their work with slander makes them virtually impervious to domestic criticism.

 

[otto]

But we are not talking of a childhood - in your supposition - which was merely "sad". We are speaking of something which would have destroyed brain chemistry and constituted malignant neglect. And yes, objectively, this would make her a victim. A violent one, but a victim.

Knox was 2 or 3 when her father left. She was 14 when her mother remarried. Her father had a second family, her mother married a man who was 10 or 12 years younger. I have no idea what kind of environment that meant for Amanda. I don't see Amanda as a victim. I actually see her as acting spoiled and entitled ... and base this on her treatment of the uncle that got her a government job in Berlin. Her explanation that she had to show some tears to manipulate him speaks volumes.

 

[wasnt_me]

Interesting that you recognize that Sweden has laws different from the US and Italy, and it's viewed as a good thing for Frank, but the laws in Italy are not recognized as a good thing for Meredith Kercher.

You said all that, not me. Don't put words in my mouth about italian laws and MK, who is dead, so nothing is really a good or bad thing for her anymore. I don't recall having an opinion about it being good for Frank, either. I've asked you not to put my personal beliefs on trial when we are in this thread and I'll ask you not to do it once again. It's interesting that you seem to do that when you don't have a good response to something someone told you. Just my observance.

 

[SMK]

The theory about the broken window being staged may well be full of holes. It doesn't appear to be full of holes to me. Mignini's lawsuit, behind the long trail of criss crossing lawsuits, is par for the course and I see no reason for everyone to be so hostile because of it. Frank is now a player in the lawsuits, as is Lifetime Movies, Joe Tacopina, Dr Sollecito, Curt Knox, Edda Mellas, Mignini, Meredith's family, Amanda, Patrick, Raffaele, Rudy, Perugia police ... did I miss anyone?

I agree , there should be no hostility. I do think Mignini being a prosecutor who lies is a sticking point. Yeah, the lawsuits are just springing up like mushrooms.

 

[SMK]

Knox was 2 or 3 when her father left. She was 14 when her mother remarried. Her father had a second family, her mother married a man who was 10 or 12 years younger. I have no idea what kind of environment that meant for Amanda. I don't see Amanda as a victim. I actually see her as acting spoiled and entitled ... and base this on her treatment of the uncle that got her a government job in Berlin. Her explanation that she had to show some tears to manipulate him speaks volumes.

There is such a thing as being spoiled and neglected all at once. Casey Anthony is a good example. One can be excessively damaged and neglected on a very profound level, while there is a surface of being "a spoiled brat". In any case, when I DID think Knox was 100% guilty 2 years ago (before I found that the evidence was withering on the vine) I still felt sorry for her, and for Ms. Kercher, both. I believe Nietzsche when he says, "Distrust all in whom the instinct to judge and punish is strong".

 

[otto]

Having hundreds of cable TV channels is very common here, otto. Whether or not it's good for children would require its own thread. (Personally, I loved horror movies as a kid and it didn't make me a violent person. But then we didn't have hundreds of channels and I didn't spend 7 hours a day in front of the tube or playing video games.)

Otherwise, your post seems self-contradictory to me. On the one hand you insist Amanda is dull (and I repeat that you don't know her; your insistence that she is dull is just as unfounded as the views of groupies who insist she is charming). On the other hand, you seem to think she is obsessed with violence, something which may be a lot of things a sign of pathology to a mere fetish, none of which are considered dull.

I was asking whether she was exposed to violence throughout her childhood, not suggesting that she was obsessed with violence. I find her dull and uninteresting, an opinion I formed while following the trial. I think one of the negative aspects of her personality is that she writes trash about violence against women. I think that's a bit sick minded. I still find her dull and uninteresting. I don't view her the least bit interesting as a psychopath. She's cold like Karla Homolka, and I wouldn't want a glimpse into her mind either. As Patrick said, she's not evil, she simply has no soul.

 

[miley]

What a feast of lawsuits surround the murder of Meredith Kercher! I didn't know (or forgot) that Rudy's lawyer sued Tacopina for slander way back when Tacopina suggested that Rudy alone murdered Meredith. We also have the lawsuit against Dr Sollecito for released crime scene photos to the media. It's a law professor's dream.

his name is Biscotti and he also sued Preston for expressing the same opinion...

according to BarbieN, (if you recall in her book) he would often point out when he thought she was being a little too hard on Rudy and would laughingly say, "I could file a defamation suit, but I won't this time."

so what do you think... do you believe he was trying to intimidate her or just joking around? ... and Tacopina, do you believe he was vocalizing an opinion or was it malicious slander?

 

[otto]

You said all that, not me. Don't put words in my mouth about italian laws and MK, who is dead, so nothing is really a good or bad thing for her anymore. I don't recall having an opinion about it being good for Frank, either. I've asked you not to put my personal beliefs on trial when we are in this thread and I'll ask you not to do it once again. It's interesting that you seem to do that when you don't have a good response to something someone told you. Just my observance.

Sorry. I was kind of taking off from your point, not repeating something you wrote.

 

[Nova]

Are you comparing rape trash to John Steinbeck et al? That's a discussion where I have nothing to contribute.

Crime novels are meant to be read and thrown in the trash. They are poorly written and banged out, except the final chapter, before the verdict is read. Dempsey contradicts herself in her book, as do most crime novelists. I suspect that this is because she is banging out a crime novel rather than reporting facts and news. I prefer to think of journalism as reporting facts in the news.

Norman Mailor's The Executioner's Song and Truman Capote's In Cold Blood are considered to be among the finest examples of American and world literature. Both are examples of true crime writing by novelists.

As for crime fiction, Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment is considered one of the greatest novels ever written. Practically all the work of William Faulkner and Flannery O'Connor deals with crime and sexual perversity; they are among my country's finest writers.

You may have highly sanitized tastes and that is your prerogative. But an interest in violence and sexual perversity does not, in and of itself, reflect on the quality of a piece of literature.

 

[otto]

There is such a thing as being spoiled and neglected all at once. Casey Anthony is a good example. One can be excessively damaged and neglected on a very profound level, while there is a surface of being "a spoiled brat". In any case, when I DID think Knox was 100% guilty 2 years ago (before I found that the evidence was withering on the vine) I still felt sorry for her, and for Ms. Kercher, both. I believe Nietzsche when he says, "Distrust all in whom the instinct to judge and punish is strong".

Would you excuse Anthony for murdering her child if it was demonstrated that she had a damaged childhood?

It's important to give the benefit of the doubt until all doubt is removed, then judgment is forthcoming.

 

[wasnt_me]

You are thinking of Oscar-winning director, Roman Polanski, who had sex with a 13-year-old girl in the 1970s. He has been in exile mostly in France ever since. Last year, the U.S. got the Swiss (not the Swedes) to hold him for extradition, but after a long proceeding Switzerland declined to return him to the U.S. and let him go.

Thanks. This is what I mean. I'm glad you got my facts straight on it. As soon as I saw his name I remembered more.

It's precisely what I mean about countries disagreeing on legalities. This is why people flee countries. They think they can go somewhere and get protected, not get extradicted. Same thing happened with the blog. We'll see if Sweden stands or caves on hosting it.

 

[Nova]

I was asking whether she was exposed to violence throughout her childhood, not suggesting that she was obsessed with violence. I find her dull and uninteresting, an opinion I formed while following the trial. I think one of the negative aspects of her personality is that she writes trash about violence against women. I think that's a bit sick minded. I still find her dull and uninteresting. I don't view her the least bit interesting as a psychopath. She's cold like Karla Homolka, and I wouldn't want a glimpse into her mind either. As Patrick said, she's not evil, she simply has no soul.

Your picture of Amanda Knox is a figment of your imagination, based largely in trashy reports from the tabloid press (with a little help from Patrick Lumumba, whom we will agree is hardly unbiased).

You do not know her, no more than I do.

But calling someone "sick," "soul dead" and "obsessed with violence", yet "dull" strains credulity.

 

[otto]

his name is Biscotti and he also sued Preston for expressing the same opinion...

according to BarbieN, (if you recall in her book) he would often point out when he thought she was being a little too hard on Rudy and would laughingly say, "I could file a defamation suit, but I won't this time."

so what do you think... do you believe he was trying to intimidate her or just joking around? ... and Tacopina, do you believe he was vocalizing an opinion or was it malicious slander?

Rudy was on trial for murder, and his lawyer had to protect his rights. When Joe Tacopina started publicly mouthing off about how Rudy was obviously guilty, Rudy's lawyer had a responsibility to protect his rights. Perhaps it's okay for Joe Tacopina to mouth off in New York, but mouthing off in Italy does not seem to be allowed. I think Italy has made that much clear to everyone following the murder of Meredith Kercher. It doesn't really matter if Tacopina was stating an opinion, it had the appearance of attempting to influence the course of justice.

 

[Allusonz]

I was asking whether she was exposed to violence throughout her childhood, not suggesting that she was obsessed with violence. I find her dull and uninteresting, an opinion I formed while following the trial. I think one of the negative aspects of her personality is that she writes trash about violence against women. I think that's a bit sick minded. I still find her dull and uninteresting. I don't view her the least bit interesting as a psychopath. She's cold like Karla Homolka, and I wouldn't want a glimpse into her mind either. As Patrick said, she's not evil, she simply has no soul.

Do you honestly believe with the scrutiny that AK and her family have gone through that if there had of been violence within the family that first the press would not of found out and secondly that her defense would not of used this

I must also point out that coming from a blended family was truly cool as I had 2 fathers, 2 mothers, and certainly more than one sister. There are blended families that actually do work well together thus I find it very telling that it is assumed it must of been a violent environment

 

[Allusonz]

I agree , there should be no hostility. I do think Mignini being a prosecutor who lies is a sticking point. Yeah, the lawsuits are just springing up like mushrooms.

I hope he continues to rack up the number of suits he is bringing. I also find it interesting to note the name of the judge that signed that order

What I also find interesting is that the order was signed prior to the blog being written

ETA Maybe it had been written just not posted hhmmmmmm food for thought

 

[Allusonz]

Your picture of Amanda Knox is a figment of your imagination, based largely in trashy reports from the tabloid press (with a little help from Patrick Lumumba, whom we will agree is hardly unbiased).

You do not know her, no more than I do.

But calling someone "sick," "soul dead" and "obsessed with violence", yet "dull" strains credulity.

I must agree here. No one on this site can state what she is like in real life

 

[wasnt_me]

Do you mean different from each other or that we both have different experiences from otto?

Because I'm not defending the quality of Knox' writing; I just don't find the subject matter unusual or meaningful.....

honors or not, every person who writes creatively is not a born writer. Know what I mean? you have to have a flare for creative writing. It doesn't really come from books or studying, though you can study enough to do it successfully. Just like people who have musical gifts but can study to sing or play and instrument, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

I haven't read the writings, because they are not relevant to the case, and I don't really understand why they keep being brought up today. I'm not beefing about it, but thought I'd add to the discussion, since it's going on and on. I know you didn't start it, but I don't see the need to grade her writing skills or discuss her writing. I'd rather grade her inability to have committed this crime, cause I think she gets about A in that.

 

[otto]

Norman Mailor's The Executioner's Song and Truman Capote's In Cold Blood are considered to be among the finest examples of American and world literature. Both are examples of true crime writing by novelists.

As for crime fiction, Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment is considered one of the greatest novels ever written. Practically all the work of William Faulkner and Flannery O'Connor deals with crime and sexual perversity; they are among my country's finest writers.

You may have highly sanitized tastes and that is your prerogative. But an interest in violence and sexual perversity does not, in and of itself, reflect on the quality of a piece of literature.

In Cold Blood took years to write and pretty much destroyed the author in the process. That is not the same "crime novel" trash that we are seeing today - no comparison. Dostoevsky is as dry as Kafka. Sure they say something about politics, justice, crime, culture, society and so much more, but Preston is not in the same league anymore than Amanda is in the same league. If you see Preston and Knox as in the same leagues as Mark Twain and famous Russian authors ... great. My opinion drastically differs.