Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[SkewedView]

Have a good time, and thanks very much for this. Very interesting, and troublesome too.

Indeed, it seems that everyone just assumed that RG had an American style 'Speedy Trial', when in fact his trial was of a type that does not exist in the American System. The way that the Abbreviated trial functions seems alien to most Americans, though many Europeans would be familiar with it, since most EU member nations still use the Inquisitorial System (am I the only one that finds the very naming of that system of legal thought ominous and disturbing?)

 

[Nova]

I wonder what bearing these inmates' letters will actually have? I hope it is not just a gesture, to show that all was covered, and I hope the inmates' testimony will not be absurd.

The court also ruled that five prisoners who have written letters claiming to know who really killed the Briton would be allowed to give evidence.
The existence of these letters has been known since the early days of the trial, but the judge then ruled them as inadmissable.
But on Saturday, the appeal court judge decided he was willing to hear from these five people.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Amanda-Knox-Meredith-Kercher-Murder-Appeal-Inmates-To-Give-Evidence-In-Appeal-Court-Rules/Article/200911315996591?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header_0&lid=ARTICLE_15996591_Amanda_Knox_Meredith_Kercher_Murder_Appeal%3A_Inmates_To_Give_Evidence_In_Appeal%2C_Court_Rules

Usually, jailhouse snitches are bad news for the defendant. The article makes it sound as if they are pointing the finger at someone else, but I wonder...

Seems to me the only thing that would really help AK and RS is if the jailhouse witnesses have proof that RG had an accomplice.

 

[Nova]

But you see, we have not given in to the arguments that 2 & 3 (and 4 for that matter) are sure signs of guilt and evil. Arguing that such things are not of great importance to the question of guilt vs innocence is seen by some as making excuses, and I doubt that will change no matter how many times those issues are hashed out, as the importance and meaning of such things are purely subjective judgment calls.

I absolutely agree, SV. I think I've been one of the loudest posters here on the subject of coerced statements.

But dgfred complained that nobody agreed with even one of his six points and I was merely showing that wasn't true.

 

[Nova]

Another article on about today's proceeding:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_italy_knox

Thank you. That article clears up what the jailhouse witnesses are prepared to say: that RG told them AK and RS were not present at the murder.

The not-very-funny thing is that if they were testifying against AK and RS, the prosecution would be demanding they be heard. And they probably would be and given considerable weight.

 

[Nova]

Ok I am truly perplexed. How many of you recall cases of an inmate testifying for the defense?

Here it seems we have people falling over themselves willing to testify for the defense. I find this terribly odd

Where the heck is Napoleoni??? I have found no mention of her. Did I simply Imagine that she was to be at this court date???

Per the Daily Beast link, the DNA appellate experts simply testified that they now have everything they need. Given what we've seen so far, that worries me.

Did they say they were given the items they previously complained to be missing? Or were they told behind the scenes somehow that they "have everything they need." (Where have we heard that phrase before?)

***

That link seems the clearest so far. The claim that MK was killed for drug debts is ridiculous. Per the link, the letter writer is saying two men were paid 100,000 Euros to kill her. Now (1) you don't get your money back for killing a debtor; and (2) unless she was a big-time drug dealer (no evidence of that whatsoever), how did she run up enough debt to make it worth $250,000 to have her killed?!

 

[Nova]

...A final verdict is expected in late September with three possible outcomes....

That article forgets a fourth possible outcome: Mignini's request that the sentences of AK and RS be increased to life in prison could be granted.

 

[Nova]

Indeed, it seems that everyone just assumed that RG had an American style 'Speedy Trial', when in fact his trial was of a type that does not exist in the American System. The way that the Abbreviated trial functions seems alien to most Americans, though many Europeans would be familiar with it, since most EU member nations still use the Inquisitorial System (am I the only one that finds the very naming of that system of legal thought ominous and disturbing?)

No, you aren't. But I don't know if European history books cover "The Inquisition" in the same way U.S. history books tend to do.

Thanks for the links on the Italian judicial system. That history explains why Mignini refers to himself as a "judge" or "magistrate," rather than as a prosecutor: because traditionally prosecutors were judges under the Italian system.

 

[SMK]

Per the Daily Beast link, the DNA appellate experts simply testified that they now have everything they need. Given what we've seen so far, that worries me.

Did they say they were given the items they previously complained to be missing? Or were they told behind the scenes somehow that they "have everything they need." (Where have we heard that phrase before?)

***

That link seems the clearest so far. The claim that MK was killed for drug debts is ridiculous. Per the link, the letter writer is saying two men were paid 100,000 Euros to kill her. Now (1) you don't get your money back for killing a debtor; and (2) unless she was a big-time drug dealer (no evidence of that whatsoever), how did she run up enough debt to make it worth $250,000 to have her killed?!

Yes, this is what is worrying me; this testimony about Meredith and the drug debt is supposed to be to HELP AK and RS, yet it is going to make things worse. As I said before, there could be some truth in GUEDE or MK's boyfriend having run up a debt, and the cottage became a place to get money and have an altercation, and poor MK got caught in it. But this thing they are saying is going to make things far worse.

 

[SMK]

That article forgets a fourth possible outcome: Mignini's request that the sentences of AK and RS be increased to life in prison could be granted.

I had thought of this, too! Is this still possible???

 

[Nova]

I had thought of this, too! Is this still possible???

I don't know, but I haven't heard otherwise.

 

[SMK]

Indeed, it seems that everyone just assumed that RG had an American style 'Speedy Trial', when in fact his trial was of a type that does not exist in the American System. The way that the Abbreviated trial functions seems alien to most Americans, though many Europeans would be familiar with it, since most EU member nations still use the Inquisitorial System (am I the only one that finds the very naming of that system of legal thought ominous and disturbing?)

No, the name resonates with the Inquisition.

 

[Nova]

Yes, this is what is worrying me; this testimony about Meredith and the drug debt is supposed to be to HELP AK and RS, yet it is going to make things worse. As I said before, there could be some truth in GUEDE or MK's boyfriend having run up a debt, and the cottage became a place to get money and have an altercation, and poor MK got caught in it. But this thing they are saying is going to make things far worse.

Maybe not "far worse," but it will tend to muddy the issue and taint the other prison inmates who have come forward. Let's hope the Court notices that the other prison inmates corroborate one another.

 

[wasnt_me]

I am unclear as to why the defense would want the drug story or the story about the mafia brother to be heard in light of the fact that they have 3 prisoners who claim to have details of the murder, given to them by RG, that prove AK and RS were not there.

 

[Allusonz]

I am unclear as to why the defense would want the drug story or the story about the mafia brother to be heard in light of the fact that they have 3 prisoners who claim to have details of the murder, given to them by RG, that prove AK and RS were not there.

I had thought but could be mistaken that they did not rule on the latest ones regarding the drug debt but that they had ruled on the original ones the defense asked for.

The only thing I can think of with respect to bringing them in is due to RG ever changing story being they were not there etc.

 

[Allusonz]

Per the Daily Beast link, the DNA appellate experts simply testified that they now have everything they need. Given what we've seen so far, that worries me.

Did they say they were given the items they previously complained to be missing? Or were they told behind the scenes somehow that they "have everything they need." (Where have we heard that phrase before?)

***

Snipped for space

I think we have to remember what the mandate was for the experts. If they could retest they should but if they could not retest then they were to review Stephanoni's testing methodolology. From what I have read today it seems they did receive the raw data files in the past few days and then asked for the chain of custody of the knife from the time it was taken from RS's apartment.

I don't think this changes anything with respect to the findings they have already done. I would also think at the time they performed those tests they pretty much knew what their report would say. As experts though they must perform due diligence.

Remember this case is being monitored around the world. If they wish to maintain any credibility in the scientific community they must cover all their bases so to speak

ETA It appears to me that they are looking at areas where contamination could of happened


" They said the kits they are required to use had not been given to them in a timely fashion. They also complained about the time it took to receive supporting documents from the state examiner, but they say they now have all the documentation they need to do their job. “We just want maximum collaboration,” said Carla Vecchiotti, a forensic specialist from La Sapienza University in Rome. “We now have everything we need.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...tragicomedy-of-her-appeal/?cid=hp:mainpromo5#

 

[Allusonz]

Thank you! Don't worry about handing me a straight-jacket, I prefer the role of handing out the nice multicolored candy - try some, it'll make things look sooo much nicer! :crazy:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Would that include an everlasting gobbstopper (sp?) I think by the time this case is over I am going to need all of those in one like the ones in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory :giggle:

 

[Allusonz]

Usually, jailhouse snitches are bad news for the defendant. The article makes it sound as if they are pointing the finger at someone else, but I wonder...

Seems to me the only thing that would really help AK and RS is if the jailhouse witnesses have proof that RG had an accomplice.

I never thought of proof of an accomplice with RG. Interesting

 

[wasnt_me]

I had thought but could be mistaken that they did not rule on the latest ones regarding the drug debt but that they had ruled on the original ones the defense asked for.

The only thing I can think of with respect to bringing them in is due to RG ever changing story being they were not there etc.

But the stories conflict and the defense is the one who brought them to the attention of the court, yes? So I don't see why they'd do that unless they are trying to make the stories match up in theory.

For example, RG's partner that night is really the mafia man's brother, but I still don't see where the drug story is helpful at all. You get too many witnesses up there saying conflicting things, they start to look like the same circus that the prosecution put on with their witnesses.

 

[sherlockh]

Well, see, this is maddening. Because mixed blood would surely point toward involvement, whereas DNA could be saliva, from brushing teeth, it could be skin cells, from washing hands, or even touching something. And then they say Bruce Fisher has lied RE DNA, and I would like to know where the truth is. But forgetting would not be a reason for saying "blood"; I am sure Mignini as a seasoned professional has an excellent memory for pertinent details of his cases.

Why would that surely point toward involvement? AK's blood was found so the same theory for the mixed DNA applies to mixed blood. It is all normal because she lived there. Problem solved

 

[Allusonz]

But the stories conflict and the defense is the one who brought them to the attention of the court, yes? So I don't see why they'd do that unless they are trying to make the stories match up in theory.

For example, RG's partner that night is really the mafia man's brother, but I still don't see where the drug story is helpful at all. You get too many witnesses up there saying conflicting things, they start to look like the same circus that the prosecution put on with their witnesses.

I truly don't put much faith in the mafia guys one. For some reason though RS's defense feels they have something with Alessi. I don't believe that the defense made another request and that the current judge was simply ruling on some things he put as pending. Whether these guys have anything to say or not I doubt it

ETA I simply find it to be mind boggling so many are comming forward for the defense