Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[SMK]

I swear that those refusing to accept the jury's decision are writing a book on defining the burden of proof as a sum of the parts such the parts may be in conflict with each other.

OK, what if the appeals judges and jury find differently than the original jury did?

 

[Nova]

BBM
The only proverbial "fly in the ointment" to what I BBM is how drugged up she was.... I have though it was possible that if she was really out of it, she might have actually been there when it happened, and actually saw what happened, but didn't do anything because she was so stoned she didn't know if what was taking place was real or a dream....
Now, that would make for a most interesting case in Ital. law- if a person is under the influence because of that doesn't do anything.... but then realizing the next day what happened, and not coming forward - wow ... but how could she come forward is it was a dream in which she was sure if it was RG or PL killing MK...

I see your point. But that would be a completely different charge.

 

[Nova]

Wasn't the satanic cult theory tossed around in the case of Laci Peterson? It seems to be something that comes up from time to time. Regarding the murder of Meredith, it happened on the Day of the Dead, so it's not unusual to wonder if some drugged up crazies with unresolved feelings about a deceased relative, or other personal issues, went nuts on that particular day.

I have no idea what happened during the murder of Meredith other than what is in evidence. One of the murderers claimed to be listening to the assault and murder from the other room, but the DNA on the knife indicates that the person that claimed to be listening from a distance was in fact weilding a knife.

As Allusonz said, you are not getting the point. Which is that if Mignini can't commit to a theory, it's because the evidence isn't there and the defendants should be found not guilty.

 

[Nova]

Let's backtrack for a minute. Malkmus wanted a traditional motive for the murder, such as life insurance policy or rape. I suggested that the murder may be motiveless, such as a thrill kill. That is my only point.

Still: your point, your burden of proof.

 

[Nova]

What sort of supporting argument is required in pointing out that the thrill kill is a motiveless murder?

Um, notice the word "thrill" in "thrill kill." That IS the motive. The only truly "motiveless" murder is an accident.

 

[Nova]

The Brad Cooper case is on appeal too, but the jury has spoken and they decided that he is guilty ... so ... the jury is not really still out, they have in fact concluded their duties. There is nothing special about the appeal process in the murder trial of Meredith Kercher since it is automatic - that is, it's not like lawyers had to successfully argue for an appeal.

If you want Websleuths shut down, talk to Tricia.

Otherwise, discussing true crime is what we do here. If we're just going to wait for and accept every jury's verdict, there's no point in having a discussion.

 

[Nova]

How can one assassinate the character of a convicted murderer? Haven't murderers done that all by themselves?

I think the poster meant random character attacks AS OPPOSED TO actual evidence that the person committed a murder.

 

[Nova]

It is indeed very difficult to understand why people that seem to have so much going for them choose to commit murder, yet it happens every day. Husbands, wives, students, children all commit murder for no good reason other than perhaps some twisted belief that they can outsmart investigators. Fortunately, murderers are basically stupid people, so they are eventually removed from society.

I don't believe it is true that people commonly commit murder for "no good reason." You and I may not think the reason is good, but the murderer does at the time.

But again: your argument, your burden of proof.

 

[Nova]

Actually, the article states that the UK determined that LNC DNA is fit and robust, and that NY courts have denied a motion to exclude DNA because it was LNC DNA. In fact, the article states the opposite of what you claim in your comment.

Oops! My bad. It was California that refused to admit the LNC DNA results, while New York did.

 

[OldSteve]

Let's backtrack for a minute. Malkmus wanted a traditional motive for the murder, such as life insurance policy or rape. I suggested that the murder may be motiveless, such as a thrill kill. That is my only point.

Based upon the evidence found inside MK - the motive was sex IMO.

 

[Nova]

Based upon the evidence found inside MK - the motive was sex IMO.

I'm not sure, Steve. You certainly may be right, but I also think it's possible the original motive was simply to eliminate a witness (assuming RG was interrupted in the middle of burglarizing the apartment). The sexual assault may have been a spur of the moment impulse while struggling with MK.

 

[SMK]

I'm not sure, Steve. You certainly may be right, but I also think it's possible the original motive was simply to eliminate a witness (assuming RG was interrupted in the middle of burglarizing the apartment). The sexual assault may have been a spur of the moment impulse while struggling with MK.

I think the sexual assault derived as you say from MK walking in on a burglary in progress. So the "motive" came spontaneously, and was not premeditated in that case.
ETA: (just reinforcing what you say here) Of course the prosecution believe that Knox and Sollecito also was spur of the moment (Massei Report) but the scenario painted there seems too absurd even to entertain.

 

[Allusonz]

Here's one example: The dinner hour time changed several times, but it was never changed to the correct time of earlier than 8:30 PM.

You are still missing the point!!! The only time of importance with respect to eating is MK's and that does not appear to be in dispute. The reason that particular time is critical is for determining the TOD

Just because AK did not note the time they ate and used a guesstimation (my word probably not in dictionary) is they did not look at the time much like I have no idea what time I am currently posting

 

[Allusonz]

How can one assassinate the character of a convicted murderer? Haven't murderers done that all by themselves?

Character assassinationFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to:

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

In practice, character assassination may involve doublespeak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation

Character assassination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SMK]

Character assassinationFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to:

Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person's reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. It is a form of defamation and can be a form of ad hominem argument.

In practice, character assassination may involve doublespeak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation

Character assassination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, it is an ad hominem logical fallacy. And I agree with Nova, that what SkewedView meant was, why pick on Amanda's dress, her smile, her weirdness, etc., when it is evidence alone which counts. Many murderers are sharp dressers, do not turn cartwheels, etc.

 

[Allusonz]

Actually, the article states that the UK determined that LNC DNA is fit and robust, and that NY courts have denied a motion to exclude DNA because it was LNC DNA. In fact, the article states the opposite of what you claim in your comment.

It is not robust. It is new, and controversial, which requires a very strict set of protocols which must be followed in order for this testing to be considered to be reliable and that there are only a couple of laboratories worldwide which have been certified. Again in this article you honed in on one word without taking into consideration what the entire article is about. Their are significant issues with regular DNA testing let alone LCN DNA testing. As well let me remind you again that the Italian lab was not CERTIFIED

"Unvalidated or improper forensic science is a leading cause of wrongful convictions. In more than 50% of the DNA exonerations nationwide, unvalidated or improper forensic science contributed to the underlying wrongful conviction"

http://www.innocenceproject.org/fix/Crime-Lab-Oversight.php

 

[Allusonz]

The Brad Cooper case is on appeal too, but the jury has spoken and they decided that he is guilty ... so ... the jury is not really still out, they have in fact concluded their duties. There is nothing special about the appeal process in the murder trial of Meredith Kercher since it is automatic - that is, it's not like lawyers had to successfully argue for an appeal.

This is not the Brad Cooper case

 

[Allusonz]

Who you callin' an Okie?!

I'll have you know I was born 50 miles north of Oklahoma in Kansas. By the age of 7 weeks, I had already done everything there was to do in Kansas, so I left.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Admit it!! You slept through most of that time :giggle:

too funny

 

[Allusonz]

Wasn't the satanic cult theory tossed around in the case of Laci Peterson? It seems to be something that comes up from time to time. Regarding the murder of Meredith, it happened on the Day of the Dead, so it's not unusual to wonder if some drugged up crazies with unresolved feelings about a deceased relative, or other personal issues, went nuts on that particular day.

I have no idea what happened during the murder of Meredith other than what is in evidence. One of the murderers claimed to be listening to the assault and murder from the other room, but the DNA on the knife indicates that the person that claimed to be listening from a distance was in fact weilding a knife.

This is also not the Laci Peterson case. Again the dynamics of these cases are not even close to being similar

ETA Although I do not post on many of these cases it does not mean that I don't follow them. The same goes for the CA case etc and there are as well some that I follow which are not discussed here. It does not mean I am not aware of the facts of the cases

 

[Nova]

I think the sexual assault derived as you say from MK walking in on a burglary in progress. So the "motive" came spontaneously, and was not premeditated in that case.
ETA: (just reinforcing what you say here) Of course the prosecution believe that Knox and Sollecito also was spur of the moment (Massei Report) but the scenario painted there seems too absurd even to entertain.

I don't understand how three people who barely know one another decide to kill a fourth (relative) stranger on the "spur of the moment." These aren't gang killers we are talking about.