Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[SMK]

Looks to me like someone is setting the groundwork for alleging that Hellman is corrupt, and to hold the Judge responsible for the prisoner circus. That is, if the appeal is not successful, then it can be suggested that the Judge deliberately shifted the focus from evidence to prisoner circus gossip in order to uphold the convictions. It should remain clear in everyone's minds that the defense chose to introduce the prisoner circus, not the prosecution and not the judge. Now that the prisoner circus has been introduced as evidence on behalf of the convicted pair, the Judge has to consider it ... and what better way than to see what Rudy has to say about the words that the prisoner circus have put in his mouth.

I suspect that next week Rudy will be in court. He will be asked if he told five conflicting stories to five prisoners. He might say no, in which case the prisoner circus can be dismissed. He might say yes, in which case the conflicting stories of the prisoner circus can be viewed as meaningless - since they are conflicting stories that do not match the evidence (eg: Meredith in a nightgown). He has already denied that he made the statements the prisoners have attributed to him.

It was a foolish decision to parade the prisoner circus through the courtroom in an attempt to put words in Rudy's mouth ... but perhaps there's a method to the madness that we have yet to see. Hopefully this isn't a brainchild of Mellas, although it does appear to be spawned by some misguided belief that a prisoner circus is a good source of information (talking heads on both sides of the pond seem to be rolling their eyes at this desperate move).

Re: "semen stain" - there is no semen stain. There are untested stains in the cottage, but sufficient evidence was collected to establish the guilt of all three convicted murderers.

I just do not know what to say anymore. This is NOT what I was expecting. Not in any way, shape, or form. I guess all I can say about the situation is: :razz:

 

[SMK]

It has been suggested by someone that this may be leading up to getting Judge Hellman to approve testing of the "semen stain" (the one you say does not exist, Otto)

ETA:No doubt the defense is going through all of this to attain something valuable they believe is hidden in the whole mess. If they are careful, it just may work - if they push too hard, IMO, it will backfire.

 

[SMK]

@ Otto You need not suspect Guede will be in court. He has been ordered to testify on June 27.

 

[otto]

I just do not know what to say anymore. This is NOT what I was expecting. I guess all I can say about the situation is: :razz:

That seems to be the reaction from many people that reported on this case - not what they were expecting. Everyone everywhere knows that a bunch of jailhouse testimony is very questionable, but in terms of the big picture, this legal move by Knox/Mellas isn't all that surprising. The Mellas/Knox clan has painted the murder trial as something "different" from murder trials in other parts of the world. They have implied that everyone is corrupt or incompetent, that Knox was beaten and deprived of the necessities of life over a period of two hours - thereby forcing her to accuse an innocent man of murder, that a trial is not a real trial and so on. Now we are supposed to once again shift our realities and believe that the testimony of five convicted prisoners is solid evidence proving that the pair were not involved in the murder. Mellas reaction to one of the prisoners:

"Speaking in a thick Neapolitan accent and gesticulating profusely, Aviello at one point was so agitated he had to be calmed down by police standing guard next to him.

"Aviello was funny," Knox's stepfather Chris Mellas said.

It's good to know that Mellas is finding some humor in the prisoner circus!

 

[otto]

@ Otto You need not suspect Guede will be in court. He has been ordered to testify on June 27.

Hopefully he won't have another bout of the stomach flu, or be beaten in prison ... again.

 

[SMK]

Hopefully he won't have another bout of the stomach flu, or be beaten in prison ... again.

I actually feel sorry for him. His life is awful. He now matters to noone.

 

[SMK]

That seems to be the reaction from many people that reported on this case - not what they were expecting. Everyone everywhere knows that a bunch of jailhouse testimony is very questionable, but in terms of the big picture, this legal move by Knox/Mellas isn't all that surprising. The Mellas/Knox clan has painted the murder trial as something "different" from murder trials in other parts of the world. They have implied that everyone is corrupt or incompetent, that Knox was beaten and deprived of the necessities of life over a period of two hours - thereby forcing her to accuse an innocent man of murder, that a trial is not a real trial and so on. Now we are supposed to once again shift our realities and believe that the testimony of five convicted prisoners is solid evidence proving that the pair were not involved in the murder. Mellas reaction to one of the prisoners:

"Speaking in a thick Neapolitan accent and gesticulating profusely, Aviello at one point was so agitated he had to be calmed down by police standing guard next to him.

"Aviello was funny," Knox's stepfather Chris Mellas said.

It's good to know that Mellas is finding some humor in the prisoner circus!

Well, I find Aviello tragic. How can we know this is Mellas' idea, and not all orchestrated by defense attorneys?

 

[SMK]

I am trying to believe this guy. I have trouble being that optimistic, but it is comforting:

Amanda does not need this testimony in order to win her appeal. It doesn't matter if Alessi is lying or not- Yet I, personally believe he is telling the truth; The prosecution's case is finished- regardless of today's testimony pro or con (pun intended). There is nothing that will prevent Amanda Knox from winning her appeal. Why do I say this? Simply put- It's the head judge handling this appeal. Hellmann is not falling for any foolishness. He is calling everything that was so stupidly swallowed by a former court into question. He is re-examining everything that the prosecution had put forth as fact and the end result has been- the prosecution's case is pathetic. They have no motive and no evidence- Nothing.

http://amandaknoxappealforum.blogspot.com/2011/06/amanda-knox-appeal-another-day-in-court.html

 

[SMK]

Hopefully he won't have another bout of the stomach flu, or be beaten in prison ... again.

& perhaps one or the other side will arrange for this to be the case?

 

[otto]

Well, I find Aviello tragic. How can we know this is Mellas' idea, and not all orchestrated by defense attorneys?

We do know that lawyers act of behalf of their clients - clients make statements and decisions, lawyers present their client's position in the courts. We also know that Mellas thinks the prisoner circus testimony is "funny". Personally, I think he should be horrified, but he seems quite comfortable/amused with what is going on, so clearly he agrees.

 

[SMK]

We do know that lawyers act of behalf of their clients - clients make statements and decisions, lawyers present their client's position in the courts. We also know that Mellas thinks the prisoner circus testimony is "funny". Personally, I think he should be horrified, but he seems quite comfortable/amused with what is going on, so clearly he agrees.

:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

 

[otto]

I don't see anything funny about parading people like this through the courtroom in an attempt to point the finger in any direction other than at Knox and Sollecito. We have the lone wolf theory, the more than one assailant theft of a painting theory, the more than one assailant 3 way sex theory, confirmation of the Alessi theory (includes the victim in a nightgown) ... what next ... aliens?

Alessi: 51, serving life for beating an 18-month-old to death with a shovel, said Guede and the friend went to Meredith’s house after meeting her in a bar.

Luciano Aviello: The mobster said his brother Antonio stabbed Meredith in a botched robbery at the house she shared with Knox, 24, and two other women. He told the court Antonio had keys to the house and let himself in to steal a valuable painting – but was disturbed by “a woman in a dressing gown”.

Marco Castelluccio: Guede denies Alessi’s claims. The court also heard from armed robber Marco Castelluccio, who backed Alessi’s story.

link

 

[SMK]

I don't see anything funny about parading people like this through the courtroom in an attempt to point the finger in any direction other than at Knox and Sollecito. We have the lone wolf theory, the more than one assailant theft of a painting theory, the more than one assailant 3 way sex theory, confirmation of the Alessi theory (includes the victim in a nightgown) ... what next ... aliens?

Alessi: 51, serving life for beating an 18-month-old to death with a shovel, said Guede and the friend went to Meredith’s house after meeting her in a bar.

Luciano Aviello: The mobster said his brother Antonio stabbed Meredith in a botched robbery at the house she shared with Knox, 24, and two other women. He told the court Antonio had keys to the house and let himself in to steal a valuable painting – but was disturbed by “a woman in a dressing gown”.

Marco Castelluccio: Guede denies Alessi’s claims. The court also heard from armed robber Marco Castelluccio, who backed Alessi’s story.

link

Why did Alessi beat a child to death with a shovel? What was the background? He looks so refined and nice, it is hard to believe. Know it is true, just wondering...:waitasec:.Well, I was always partial to Hendry and the Lone Wolf scenario.....

ETA: Just found Mario's story here:http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/behind_mario_alessis_own_trial_and_life_sentence_kidnap_and_murder/

 

[otto]

Why did Alessi beat a child to death with a shovel? What was the background? He looks so refined and nice, it is hard to believe. Know it is true, just wondering...:waitasec:.Well, I was always partial to Hendry and the Lone Wolf scenario.....

ETA: Just found Mario's story here:http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/behind_mario_alessis_own_trial_and_life_sentence_kidnap_and_murder/

I guess looks have nothing to do with the horrific crimes that people are capable of committing.

This man, that beat an 18 month old child to death with a shovel, is not refined and nice. He is not someone that Knox and Sollecito should want to attach to their defense arguments.

 

[SMK]

I guess looks have nothing to do with the horrific crimes that people are capable of committing.

This man, that beat an 18 month old child to death with a shovel, is not refined and nice. He is not someone that Knox and Sollecito should want to attach to their defense arguments.

No. You may think I am crazy, but i was relieved to find he did not sadistically beat the child. He panicked during the kidnapping. Kind of like the Lindburgh case, knocking the child out, killed him. Not a beating for any purpose. It is still awful, but he thought the crying was alerting the police. Of course had had no business kidnapping the baby....bleh.......but I looked for the tiny ray of light. He is not a sadist nor a child pornographer. I know you will not agree, but....it makes a difference to me. It is possible for him to speak the truth. As this journalist says, Mario is likely looking for atonement by doing a good deed:

But now Italian baby murderer Alessi says he can clearly Knox with the confession Guede gave him saying Knox and Sollecito were innocent and that he and a friend acted alone. Alessi, by the way, broke into a family's home, kidnapped their 17-month-old baby and beat him to death with a shovel 20 minutes later. He is a reprehensible human being, one who barely even deserves his dignity and yet, we are expected to trust his word?

The answer: Yes. We are. As horrifying and despicable and evil and a-million-other-words-that- don't-exist-to-describe-it though his crime may be, he may not be a liar. Oh, I know. In our world we love to dismiss a person as entirely devoid of any positive attributes because of a single action. This is true with much more minor infractions -- cheating on a spouse, for instance -- and with much more soul-crushing, egregious ones -- killing a baby.

There is nothing "good" one can say about a man who murdered a toddler in cold blood, but that does not necessarily mean he lies about everything he says, right? Sure, he might have reasons to "come forward," but maybe his reasons are actually less selfish and more altruistic. It is possible, right? Maybe Knox IS wrongly imprisoned.

hestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/121948/amanda_knox_may_be_saved

 

[wasnt_me]

I just read on IIP that it is Judge Hellman, and not the prosecution, who wants Guede on the stand. That does make it somewhat better, doesn't it???:waitasec:

I read different things elsewhere. I read the prosecution requested RG, but I don't care who did. He's not gonna get up there and lie without the lawyers making it obvious that's what he's doing.

I heard that it could only be over the scope of the conversation at the jail, or they might be able to ask him other questions. I've heard that he might be able to plead "the fifth," or he might be compelled to answer. I've heard it all.

However, he cannot be disallowed to say I don't know, or I don't recall.

I mean, what if they ask him "What was wasn't_me doing last week?" RG doesn't know that, so the correct and honest answer is "I don't know." If they ask him what he ate for breakfast on this day in 1980, the correct answer might be, "I do not recall." So I can't see how they can bar those answers.

Also I do not see how his testimony can carry more weight than AK's testimony. They cancel each other out, her word against his, and it just depends on whose word sounds right.

 

[otto]

No. You may think I am crazy, but i was relieved to find he did not sadistically beat the child. He panicked during the kidnapping. Kind of like the Lindburgh case, knocking the child out, killed him. Not a beating for any purpose. It is still awful, but he thought the crying was alerting the police. Of course had had no business kidnapping the baby....bleh.......but I looked for the tiny ray of light. He is not a sadist nor a child pornographer. I know you will not agree, but....it makes a difference to me. It is possible for him to speak the truth. As this journalist says, Mario is likely looking for atonement by doing a good deed:

hestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/121948/amanda_knox_may_be_saved

Atonement? He denied recognizing the child he murdered and didn't seem to know what he was convicted of doing. No, I don't believe someone with a "faulty memory" like Knox is looking for atonement.

 

[SMK]

I read different things elsewhere. I read the prosecution requested RG, but I don't care who did. He's not gonna get up there and lie without the lawyers making it obvious that's what he's doing.

I heard that it could only be over the scope of the conversation at the jail, or they might be able to ask him other questions. I've heard that he might be able to plead "the fifth," or he might be compelled to answer. I've heard it all.

However, he cannot be disallowed to say I don't know, or I don't recall.

I mean, what if they ask him "What was wasn't_me doing last week?" RG doesn't know that, so the correct and honest answer is "I don't know." If they ask him what he ate for breakfast on this day in 1980, the correct answer might be, "I do not recall." So I can't see how they can bar those answers.

.......we shall see how it plays out, then.....

 

[SMK]

Atonement? He denied recognizing the child he murdered and didn't seem to know what he was convicted of doing. No, I don't believe someone with a "faulty memory" like Knox is looking for atonement.

OK, what is Mario's motive then if he is not looking for atonement?

 

[wasnt_me]

It has been suggested by someone that this may be leading up to getting Judge Hellman to approve testing of the "semen stain" (the one you say does not exist, Otto)

ETA:No doubt the defense is going through all of this to attain something valuable they believe is hidden in the whole mess. If they are careful, it just may work - if they push too hard, IMO, it will backfire.

I can't agree with that last sentence because at this point, I doubt they'll get longer sentences, so they should just go all out.