Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Allusonz]

One last thing before zzzzzzzz:



Why couldn't the police figure out that there is only one reason that RG, MK, and MK's boyfriend's fingerprints are in MK's room, and not AK or RS's? Did it not occur to them that it's because the three spent significant time in Mk's room???

The BF, GS, wasn't the murderer, MK didn't murder herself, so that leaves.....:waitasec:

Oh, and clean up? you got 50 smudged prints. WTH clean up? I wouldn't let whoever did that clean up wash my paper plates.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/International/story?id=7412123&page=2

That would require LOGIC. This after all was a satanic drug fueled sex orgy amoung people that could barely communicate amoungst themselves and whom did not know each other :giggle:

 

[Allusonz]

I agree. Also, you wouldn't have to worry as much about being potentially caught in the act. Seems to me like the logical way to do things.

I can't remember - were Meredith's keys found? That seems like an important piece of information. I had a little search and couldn't find reference to them aside from Aviello's claim that his brother gave him a set of keys to hide.

No the keys were never found. Of course they never searched for them or considered the garden to be a potential crime scene.

 

[Allusonz]

So if her keys were never found, that suggests they were taken. Which suggests someone needed them for something since keys hold no intrinsic value themselves. Which suggests that whoever took them didn't have access to any others. So how could all three convicts be involved at once? AK obviously had keys and would have no need to take them, and if she was a co-conspiritor then why would either RS or RG need or want to take them?

Which begs to ask the question who rang the doorbell. Why would AK ring the doorbell as she had her keys

 

[Allusonz]

Giuliano Mignini has a corrupt history

"Giuliano Mignini was convicted of falsifying facts, releasing lies to the public, and disseminating false information to the media in order to conduct a smear campaign against his enemies (defendants). A search of his premesis found a "hit list" and he has been sentanced to 16-months in prison and never allowed to practice law again, yet with this all said, he was still allowed to practice law in the Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito case. In light of this information, now disclosed to the world, why hasn't Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito been released from prison?"

http://www.king5.com/your-news/125206429.html

 

[Allusonz]

The luminol-positive areas in the murder of Meredith Kercher


"It is sometimes argued that negative TMB results in the Kercher case can be ascribed to this difference in sensitivity. There are several reasons to reject this explanation. First, if it were the only explanation for TMB giving a negative result, no forensic personnel would ever use TMB after using luminol: A negative result would not rule out the presence of blood, yet a positive result would still require a confirmatory test afterwards. Second, the window of dilution factors for which one would expect a positive luminol reaction but a negative TMB reaction is relatively small. Third, if one did have a sample which fell into this range, the luminol response would be weak, whereas Colonel Garofano remarked upon the sheer luminosity* of the footprints in the book Darkness Descending. A study by Bilous and coworkers showed that the maximum intensity of light emitted fell with decreasing concentration of blood (see Table 1)."

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2011/07/forensic-tests-for-presence-of-blood.html

 

[SkewedView]

The luminol-positive areas in the murder of Meredith Kercher


"It is sometimes argued that negative TMB results in the Kercher case can be ascribed to this difference in sensitivity. There are several reasons to reject this explanation. First, if it were the only explanation for TMB giving a negative result, no forensic personnel would ever use TMB after using luminol: A negative result would not rule out the presence of blood, yet a positive result would still require a confirmatory test afterwards. Second, the window of dilution factors for which one would expect a positive luminol reaction but a negative TMB reaction is relatively small. Third, if one did have a sample which fell into this range, the luminol response would be weak, whereas Colonel Garofano remarked upon the sheer luminosity* of the footprints in the book Darkness Descending. A study by Bilous and coworkers showed that the maximum intensity of light emitted fell with decreasing concentration of blood (see Table 1)."

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2011/07/forensic-tests-for-presence-of-blood.html

From the above on the hallway prints (bolds by me):

The footprints in the hallway are all right feet images** and do not form a trail. No reference footprints were taken from anyone except Amanda, Raffaele, and Rudi, nor can the prints be dated. Yet Judge Massei regards the prints as being made in blood. He said (p. 284 in the English translation of the Massei Motivations Report), “In this regard, one cannot simply disregard the fact that the bloodstains were undeniably abundant in Meredith’s room, from which easily, or indeed inevitably, they must have been exported to other parts of the house by anyone who, coming out of Meredith’s room, went into these other parts.” In some respects this line of reasoning is similar to Dr. Stefanoni’s argument in front of Judge Micheli during the pretrial, as reported in Candace Dempsey’s blog, Let's Talk About True Crime. This argument is extremely poor. It suggests that the footprints should form a continuous trail of right and left footprints away from Meredith’s room, contrary to fact. It treats luminol as if it were a confirmatory test for blood, and it ignores the negative TMB testing that was done on at least some of the luminol-positive areas.

Finally, two other facts lead one to question whether the luminol-positive spots are related to the crime. One is that the luminol data were collected on December 18, not in early November right after the crime but rather after the police had tossed the crime scene. This means that law enforcement personnel may have tracked luminol-positive material into Filomena’s room, for example. Two is that the police found many luminol-positive areas in Sollecito’s flat. There is no reason to associate any of these regions with the murder, and Sarah Gino’s testimony suggests that luminol-positive areas are not uncommon in forensic investigations.

 

[SkewedView]

The luminol-positive areas in the murder of Meredith Kercher


"It is sometimes argued that negative TMB results in the Kercher case can be ascribed to this difference in sensitivity. There are several reasons to reject this explanation. First, if it were the only explanation for TMB giving a negative result, no forensic personnel would ever use TMB after using luminol: A negative result would not rule out the presence of blood, yet a positive result would still require a confirmatory test afterwards. Second, the window of dilution factors for which one would expect a positive luminol reaction but a negative TMB reaction is relatively small. Third, if one did have a sample which fell into this range, the luminol response would be weak, whereas Colonel Garofano remarked upon the sheer luminosity* of the footprints in the book Darkness Descending. A study by Bilous and coworkers showed that the maximum intensity of light emitted fell with decreasing concentration of blood (see Table 1)."

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2011/07/forensic-tests-for-presence-of-blood.html

Also from the link above:

blood testing
Although DNA typing is a powerful tool in forensics, it is not a test for blood. The National Forensic Science Technology Center said, “For example, while examining the clothing of a suspect, a forensic biologist might visually locate a brown stain that presumptively tested positive for blood and was then DNA typed. The DNA type is found to match the victim. Knowing that the loci tested are higher primate specific, what conclusions can be drawn? The only unqualified conclusion that can be offered is that the stain contains DNA that matches the victim. It has not been proven to be blood.” In response to a question of mine, Dr. Virkler and Dr. Lednev concurred: “It is correct to assume that DNA profiling is not a confirmatory test for blood because it can be found in so many other things. Just confirming the presence of the victim or suspect's DNA has absolutely no bearing on what type of tissue or fluid it is. There could have been skin cells scattered in a pile of ketchup that would match a person's DNA, but that doesn't make it blood.”

 

[wasnt_me]

I apologize for this link:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...iDaDNI&sig=AHIEtbQtwQukezTOrT9OtxIRp0kXv2I7CQ

You can google "use of low copy number" and murray and probably bring it up.

It states that a low shedder who shook the hand of a high shedder and then the low shedder touched a straw for 10 minutes, left only the DNA of the high shedder 5 times out of 10 times tested.

So you could make the case that someone wearing gloves, who touched DNA of a subject, could then transfer that DNA onto the clasp. Hence... only use disposable tongs to touch evidence.

I think (this has a 10% chance of being recalled correctly) that when cells naturally exfoliate, their internal nucleas is consumed, making them unreadable. But hen the cells are rubbed off, the whole system dies, leaving the nucleas preserved to be readable. Or something along those lines. Wait.. maybe it is that the skin is generated around the nucleus, and the skin peels away, leaving nucleii attached.. anyway, the end result, I think, is that shed skin does not have nucleii in it to be tested. But "live" skin does.

EDITED TO ADD: Whatever the reason is, it's the same reason why they don't like to use hair for DNA. You need the bulb of the hair, but the shaft is almost useless. (only can get mtdna from it).

Right, I hear you about the hair. It's always puzzled me about that, too, so I guess no time like the present to go and learn enough about DNA testing to be dangerous!


Thanks for helping me and I'll check out your links.

 

[wasnt_me]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43694865/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Oh, no! Someone dinged the cake! :crazy:

You see at the bottom. Oh, well, At least it's not as bad a things as staged glass on the murder room floor, or clothes left in a "warm washer" or a mushroom in the throat of someone who didn't eat mushrooms that day....

 

[wasnt_me]

Too many errors, the "scientific" under fire

A pretty scathing report

Google translate all

"And the ex-general Luciano Garofano, head of the long-Ris di Parma, admits the cultural lag: "The police has made leaps and bounds in technology in the inspection and laboratory tests, but much remains to be done. At the crime scene should go only pure specialists that we have not. "

In short, judges have too much and am confident in the investigation of laboratory tests. And the so-called comparative (the advice of expert witnesses) rather than to build alternative tests are aimed at "dismantling" incontrovertible certainties held by the prosecution. Do not need to find the culprit, but at least, and not just, can prevent an innocent person ends up in prison. Pm and persistence of allowing judges."

http://translate.google.com/transla.../articolo-id=534152-page=0-comments=1&act=url

YES!

This is just what I wanted--short of mistakes committed specifically by PS on cases! Thanks!

:tyou:

The turning point in the process of appeal against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, the next hearing on July 25, unleashed criticism from experts and investigations against the scientific evidence. Mostro di Firenze, Unabomber, Cogne, giallo di Garlasco, omicidio di Marta Russo, delitto di Perugia... Monster of Florence, the Unabomber, Cogne, yellow Garlasco, murder of Marta Russo, Perugia murder ... solo alcuni dei grandi casi di cronaca nera che confermano, insieme con decine e decine di storie meno note all'opinione pubblica, il declino della criminalistica italiana. just some of the major cases of crime, confirming, along with dozens and dozens of lesser-known stories to the public, the decline of the Italian criminal science. Autopsie e sopralluoghi reiterati, pratiche investigative e prove di laboratorio infarcite di errori marchiani, omissioni assurde e conclusioni fantasiose; perizie suffragate da teorie scientifiche superate e da... Autopsies and repeated inspections, investigation and laboratory testing practices riddled with errors Marchiani, omissions absurd and fanciful conclusions, supported by expert scientific theories and overcome ... sentenze. judgments.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yup she received special permission to collect the forensics. Normally the one that performs the testing does not collect it as well to prevent testing bias. Of which we now took place according to the experts report

Right, whether she got special permission or not, I wonder if that will hold up under the scrutiny of the expert report? Know what I mean? After this report, I wonder if Hellman will be like "To hell with your 'special' permission. Shouldn't have happened this way!"

The worst error I see was that they themselves wiped up the dang on floor after photographing and swiping the prints in the hallway. They said they did it so blood wouldnt be trampled from room to room, but if they kept changing footies as they say, then that wouldn't have happened anyway, right?

At the threshold of MK's room, before you go in the hallway, change footies. Put them in a clear bag labeled "MK's room footies, John doe, pair one." Then put on some new footies. When you get to the living room threshold, change footies and repeat bagging.

Or lay down plastic over the whole floor to protect what's beneath it in the hallway. Or use something that can left the prints intact off the floor. Maybe I'm asking too much? But to scrub them off the floor? I never heard of such a thing, and it seems they introduced cleaning agrents to the crime scene.

Oh, I was saying all this to say that PS didn't do the footprint analysis at least. someone else did it, who erroneously cited that it was RG's right foot print on the pillow when it was really his left. I think the reason it happened is because when you turn a shoe over, the right shoe now looks like the left shoe if it were stamped onto the floor. Know what I mean? Simple idiotic error, but I figured it out, looking at IIP, where they have a link to the shoeprint report.

Looking at that pillow, there's blood spatter on it, so MK had to be on it or near it, meaning it had to be on the floor during the attack. So I wonder how the pillow go on the floor with bra clasp eventually beneath it.

I wonder about this whole footprint in MK's room thing because anyalyzing those footprints and the ones that go out the front door give an indication of what RG did in the room and the house.

I'll explain in another post, but in that post will probably be my observances and I might need help putting those pieces together.

 

[wasnt_me]

No the keys were never found. Of course they never searched for them or considered the garden to be a potential crime scene.

I'm agreeing with you on the garden, but I'm taking for granted that the lady and her daughter who found the phones and also received the bomb threat were probably prudent enough to search their grounds themselves, esp since the case was in the media so much. I'll bet that were out there with metal detectors themselves! So for me, I'm confident the keys weren't in her garden, but logically, I'm thinking they should be, know what I mean?

UNLESS, RG kept them, intending to go back later that night to steal more stuff. I know the front door was wide open, but maybe he thought he locked it well on the way out. Because why else would the keys be missing unless he attempted to lock the door on the way out? We know they had a trick door, but seems...

Oh, well, maybe the other reason he took them but left the front door unlocked could be that he was just making sure the key to MK's room wasn't lying about for someone to easily open the door, I guess.

 

[wasnt_me]

Giuliano Mignini has a corrupt history

"Giuliano Mignini was convicted of falsifying facts, releasing lies to the public, and disseminating false information to the media in order to conduct a smear campaign against his enemies (defendants). A search of his premesis found a "hit list" and he has been sentanced to 16-months in prison and never allowed to practice law again, yet with this all said, he was still allowed to practice law in the Amanda Knox Raffaele Sollecito case. In light of this information, now disclosed to the world, why hasn't Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito been released from prison?"

http://www.king5.com/your-news/125206429.html

Right. His case if on appeal, but shouldn't he be prohibited to conduct trials and investigations until his appeals are exhausted? I mean, AK and RS were convicted in the first round and they are not free, so why should he, also convicted, be free to roam around doing the VERY thing that he was convicted for?

 

[SMK]

Oh, no! Someone dinged the cake! :crazy:

You see at the bottom. Oh, well, At least it's not as bad a things as staged glass on the murder room floor, or clothes left in a "warm washer" or a mushroom in the throat of someone who didn't eat mushrooms that day....

Oh, no.....I hope it is not a bad omen?

 

[Nova]

Right. His case if on appeal, but shouldn't he be prohibited to conduct trials and investigations until his appeals are exhausted? I mean, AK and RS were convicted in the first round and they are not free, so why should he, also convicted, be free to roam around doing the VERY thing that he was convicted for?

I'm sure the answer is that GM wasn't convicted of a violent crime, but I agree: allowing him to continue to practice while his conviction is appealed makes the entire system look bad.

 

[wasnt_me]

How's this for contimination?

All he/she has to do now is go walk in RF's room.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ihEV4dCAwIc/Tg9CKv1NzOI/AAAAAAAAABw/t-9I5QiKdAI/s1600/In+Blood+2.jpg

 

[Nova]

Wow! Did we all finally run out of breath?

What will Salem do with all the extra free time?

 

[SkewedView]

Maybe everyone got a concussion from doing this :banghead: for too long lol.

 

[wasnt_me]

I was waiting for y'all. Got tired of talking to myself. Guess there's not much to say since the truth is coming out.

It's like the longest labor and birth in history!

I went over to check out that missing mountain woman from TN. i sure don't know what to think about that one.

 

[Salem]

Wow! Did we all finally run out of breath?

What will Salem do with all the extra free time?

I'm very busy trying to stay neutral in the Caylee forum after a very surprising verdict was handed down. So maybe I'll just add a reminder here also because we are getting so close - NO bashing the decision maker(s) no matter what the final outcome is in this case, okay?

Keep in mind that the judge/jury doesn't necessarily care what the popular opinion is - oh my! :innocent:

Salem