Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[dgfred]

Otto, what have you learned from the report?

Since you are answering questions to others, here is the same.

*Most of their cites were American from much earlier in time. Why not Italian?

*The possiblity of contamination is present. Didn't we know this, isn't it always?

*It was not possible to re-test either item, but they did not agree with DrS's procedures of testing. She, and other experts, will be able to counter their arguments on July 25.

***RS's dna WAS on the bra clasp.

Those are a few things learned, the last being very important IMO.

 

[Malkmus]

I haven't read it. The report is 145 pages long, written in Italian and describes complex biochemistry. I am far too busy to set aside time to become an expert in the biochemistry of DNA as well as an expert in academic Italian language to plough through it. However, Allusonz has read the report so I'm curious about what is in the report ... aside from the information that was copied over from Dempsey, Fisher or other blogsters.

My knowledge of biochemistry is limited to brain chemicals and human behavior. It's a fascinating subject, by my interests took me in a different direction ... so I have to rely on information from those that have read this very interesting document.

Then we'll have to wait until the translation is done by either Thoughtful on PMF or Komponisto which I've linked to before here in order to get all the specific details. Here's one thing I can tell you, know matter which way it gets translated it's going to admonish Stefanoni's results and her methods for having reached those results. No one actually has to read the full report to know this. I'm not sure what the point is in criticizing the bits that have been translated by certain blogs to this point, they do a nice job of accurately summarizing the report.

 

[Malkmus]

Since you are answering questions to others, here is the same.

*Most of their cites were American from much earlier in time. Why not Italian?

You'll have to rephrase this as I don't understand what you're asking me. What cites were english (fixed ETA)

*The possiblity of contamination is present. Didn't we know this, isn't it always?

When you follow protocol you can eliminate the possibility of contamination is my interpretation. If there was always the possibility of contamination I think they would say this wouldn't they? They're not novices after all.

*It was not possible to re-test either item, but they did not agree with DrS's procedures of testing. She, and other experts, will be able to counter their arguments on July 25.

***RS's dna WAS on the bra clasp.

Those are a few things learned, the last being very important IMO.

From what I've seen of the report, the DNA of Rafaelle is not there, but if you've seen something in the report that indicates otherwise it would be great of you to point it out.

 

[dgfred]

*Most of the cites are from American 'manuals', not Italian or European 'manuals'.

*There is the 'possibility of contamination' at almost EVERY crime scene... with or without protocols.


Last and not least:
***Since we both know you have been reading PMF (not to mention TJMK)regularly... I'm quite sure you have seen from there that RS's dna is on the clasp according to the report. :innocent: Was that 'great' enough by me?

 

[SMK]

*Most of the cites are from American 'manuals', not Italian or European 'manuals'.

*There is the 'possibility of contamination' at almost EVERY crime scene... with or without protocols.


Last and not least:
***Since we both know you have been reading PMF (not to mention TJMK)regularly... I'm quite sure you have seen from there that RS's dna is on the clasp according to the report. :innocent: Was that 'great' enough by me?

:razz: How/where is it in the report?

 

[Malkmus]

*Most of the cites are from American 'manuals', not Italian or European 'manuals'.

*There is the 'possibility of contamination' at almost EVERY crime scene... with or without protocols.


Last and not least:
***Since we both know you have been reading PMF (not to mention TJMK)regularly... I'm quite sure you have seen from there that RS's dna is on the clasp according to the report. :innocent: Was that 'great' enough by me?

Actually, Fred, I don't "read" PMF as I do this site. I check in briefly occasionally and don't keep up with the conversations there so I have no idea where the presence of RS's DNA is brought up there. If you know specifically that would help. Otherwise, when I have time tonight I'll check on the translations in progress to see where this is mentioned.

If this is simply a case of there always be a chance of contamination then Stefanoni should be good. This probably will be the angle she uses in court (if she shows up). However, protocols are put in place to reduce the risk of such contamination, and when all protocols are so grossly ignored, it gives the courts plenty of reason to to think there was contamination/misinterpretation of the results. Had ILE not made sooooo many mistakes I don't think the independent experts would say these DNA results are inconclusive.

ETA: I honestly still don't understand what you're getting at with:

*Most of the cites are from American 'manuals', not Italian or European 'manuals'.

You'll have to point exactly to which cites you are referring. Cites in the report? Cites in a news article?

 

[dgfred]

You will have to find it yourself, I am taking thoughtful's, Fiona's and Fly By Night's interpretation of the report as what I personally go by.

'razz' right back at ya pal.

 

[SMK]

You will have to find it yourself, I am taking thoughtful's, Fiona's and Fly By Night's interpretation of the report as what I personally go by.

'razz' right back at ya pal.

But these are the same people who said the report would merely uphold the original findings and analyses. It clearly did not. No matter how you might circumlocute, it just did not. Ergo, how can I trust such bad predictors? They are using their brilliance to spin this their way. I find PMF very, very difficult to read: Not because it is over my head, but because the page is black, the print is grey, there is too much red, and it is just a dank, murky mess. And please do not call a lady, "Pal". :dramaqueen: :razz:

 

[Malkmus]

You will have to find it yourself, I am taking thoughtful's, Fiona's and Fly By Night's interpretation of the report as what I personally go by.

'razz' right back at ya pal.

I'll take a look later tonight then...

"Razz"? I didn't "razz" you... check again.

 

[dgfred]

I call all my friends pal, male or female. I'll strike you from my list.

These were NOT the people who posted the report will uphold the original findings. Choosing to disregard them is up to you.

You are able to change the color of the site at the top left corner of the page. There ya go.

 

[dgfred]

I'll take a look later tonight then...

"Razz"? I didn't "razz" you... check again.

Please do.

*When someone is replying to a post and you post in between that... you get some mix-ups. Like a few post ago with otto and now with me.

SMK is the razzqueen.

 

[SMK]

___ has confirmed what the literature says: that the quantity makes it very unlikely that RS's dna was a result of contamination or transfer. Others have concurred: there is a theoretical possibility that it was transferred in some way: but that is always true. The other profiles are far more in line with the usual presentation of a transfer or contamination. Was RS just unlucky then? What do you think?

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=375&sid=51d6d5c9630350e2a15fad65ab3e3ef9&start=4500

Just where on earth are they getting these conclusions from????:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

I call all my friends pal, male or female. I'll strike you from my list.

These were NOT the people who posted the report will uphold the original findings. Choosing to disregard them is up to you.

You are able to change the color of the site at the top left corner of the page. There ya go.

:laugh::laugh:

 

[SMK]

thanks, fred - it is white with blue print now:great:

 

[dgfred]

thanks, fred - it is white with blue print now:great:

Watch out for you being 'transferred' to the other PMF site (Michael). A poster the other day was switching between colors and it did that to him/her.
Not sure if it happens or only if you post, just a notice to you.

 

[SMK]

Watch out for you being 'transferred' to the other PMF site (Michael). A poster the other day was switching between colors and it did that to him/her.
Not sure if it happens or only if you post, just a notice to you.

It DID happen Now I am reading TJMK site If all they are saying about the mixed blood is true, then Knox and Sollecito must call it a day. But why does it not convince me?:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Then we'll have to wait until the translation is done by either Thoughtful on PMF or Komponisto which I've linked to before here in order to get all the specific details. Here's one thing I can tell you, know matter which way it gets translated it's going to admonish Stefanoni's results and her methods for having reached those results. No one actually has to read the full report to know this. I'm not sure what the point is in criticizing the bits that have been translated by certain blogs to this point, they do a nice job of accurately summarizing the report.

BBM

I was hoping that Allusonz would provide the insights. So it's not necessary to read the report to know what in the report ... only necessary to read the last page? No wonder I'm so skeptical of the layman's interpretation of the report! In fact, I think that any responsible person would want to read and analyze the report in order to fully understand the validity of the conclusions. We need look no further than the Motivation Report to know that what is in the report, what is in the conclusion and what people want to read into the conclusions can be very different.

 

[otto]

How/where is it in the report?

Regarding the bra clasp; p.135 of the report:

"Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Google Translate:

It is, therefore, a genetic profile derived from the mixture of unidentified biological substances whose major component is represented by DNA from the victim and the minor component is represented by DNA from more individuals (see autosomal STRs) that were male (see Y chromosome); a haplotype Y which corresponds to the Y haplotype of Raffaele Sollecito.

 

[SMK]

Regarding the bra clasp; p.135 of the report:

"Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Google Translate:

It is, therefore, a genetic profile derived from the mixture of unidentified biological substances whose major component is represented by DNA from the victim and the minor component is represented by DNA from more individuals (see autosomal STRs) that were male (see Y chromosome); a haplotype Y which corresponds to the Y haplotype of Raffaele Sollecito.

OK, but this haplotype could belong to numerous men, of which Sollecito is but one. Right? :waitasec: Oh, dear.........

 

[Malkmus]

BBM

I was hoping that Allusonz would provide the insights. So it's not necessary to read the report to know what in the report ... only necessary to read the last page? No wonder I'm so skeptical of the layman's interpretation of the report! In fact, I think that any responsible person would want to read and analyze the report in order to fully understand the validity of the conclusions. We need look no further than the Motivation Report to know that what is in the report, what is in the conclusion and what people want to read into the conclusions can be very different.

As I said "we'll have to wait until the translation is done by either Thoughtful on PMF or Komponisto which I've linked to before here in order to get all the specific details". We don't need to read the full report, however, to know that it "it's going to admonish Stefanoni's results and her methods for having reached those results". I plan on reading it, you were the one who said you don't have time to.

The comparison to the motivations report is apt. You don't have to read the full thing to know that Massei thinks AK and RS are guilty. Just like you don't have to read the full expert report to know they don't condone Stefanoni's results.