Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[SMK]

When my husband and I did our "grand tour" (six weeks around Western Europe), the European edition of Time was full of letters re anti-Americanism there. That was in 1979. (As it happened, we were treated very well, but we were traveling during the off-season when crowds were few.)

I'm not naive about the way Americans are perceived (nor am I blind to the ways we contribute to that perception).

Maybe there was a subconscious influence and maybe anti-Americanism predisposed Italian jurors to believe the worst about Amanda Knox. But I don't believe Western Europeans would deliberately convict a woman they believe to be innocent, just because she is American. That was my only point.

Right, that highlighted sentence is the crux of it. There is anti-Americanism aplenty, but it only - on a subconscious level, perhaps - added a bit of fuel to the fire.

They did not intentionally frame an innocent. I think Mignini felt he was doing the right thing, and his intentions were noble at the onset.

 

[Allusonz]

Still no reply on what leaked information was 'central' to the case?

Nothing was leaked with respect to the report it was filed early. End of story. Period.

 

[SMK]

Franks New Blog... I simply have to keep bringing him up as he as well has been charged but he did bring much to our attention

http://perugiashock.com/

Thanks for sending Frank to our door::great:

NOW WE CAN SAY IT: ‘CASO CHIUSO’

In other words it’s official: there’s no Meredith’s DNA on the knife, there’s no Raffaele’s DNA on the bra clasp.

In next hearing Stefanoni will defend the results obtained. This time she will be allowed to pose directly questions to Conti & Vecchiotti. It will be her attempt to defend what exist on that knife and bra clasp: NOTHING.
Will the defense file a request of freedom after the discussion? I would file it tomorrow…

Amanda came to know through the news and according to the jail chaplain, don Saulo, who saw her, she was very happy.

Raffaele, who shares the cell with a Filipino, had the TV broken. His lawyer Luca Maori sent him a telegram with the good news.

 

[otto]

One thing which I think has clearly not been given as much attention as it should have been today:

I recall full well when the Independent Panel, in the early days of the appeal, said "the dna was too little to retest".

Everyone at Perugia Murder File and True Justice forums hooted with scornful laughter about the pro-innocence campers "thinking this was good news for Knox". No, they said, "all it will lead to is the original testing being examined, and we know the protocol was impeccable".

Well, fast forward to today, and the forensic panel is saying, "The international procedures for inspection, protocol and collection of evidence were not followed" for both the bra clasp and the knife, and we are reading things like,
The court-appointed experts said in a report Wednesday obtained by The Associated Press that the genetic profile attributed to Kercher is "unreliable" and that results may have been contaminated on both the blade and bra clasp.

And we are still supposed to think those on PMF knew what they were talking about????

http://amandaknoxappealforum.blogspot.com/2011/06/amanda-knox-appeal-big-victory-for-knox.html

Any thoughts on what this means?

""Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Does it say that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra clasp?

 

[SMK]

Any thoughts on what this means?

""Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Does it say that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra clasp?

Someone else address this? I cannot think of what to say, except: I cannot read Italiano!!
:razz:

 

[Allusonz]

Any thoughts on what this means?

""Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Does it say that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra clasp?

It means this

Relative to Item 165B (bra clasps), we find that the technical analysis is not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms the presence of supposed flaking cells on the item;

2. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile of the autosomic STRs;

3. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile relative to the Y chromosome;

4. The international protocols for inspection, collection, and sampling of the item were not followed;

5. It cannot be ruled out that the results obtained derive from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.

 

[SMK]

Worth repeating and highlighting::innocent:

It means this

Relative to Item 165B (bra clasps), we find that the technical analysis is not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms the presence of supposed flaking cells on the item;

2. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile of the autosomic STRs;

3. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile relative to the Y chromosome;

4. The international protocols for inspection, collection, and sampling of the item were not followed;

5. It cannot be ruled out that the results obtained derive from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.

 

[otto]

It means this

Relative to Item 165B (bra clasps), we find that the technical analysis is not reliable for the following reasons:

1. There does not exist evidence which scientifically confirms the presence of supposed flaking cells on the item;

2. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile of the autosomic STRs;

3. There was an erroneous interpretation of the electrophoretic profile relative to the Y chromosome;

4. The international protocols for inspection, collection, and sampling of the item were not followed;

5. It cannot be ruled out that the results obtained derive from environmental contamination and/or contamination in some phase of the collection and/or handling of the item.

Those are the conclusions at the end of the 145 page report, whereas what I posted if from the meat of the report.

 

[Allusonz]

Those are the conclusions at the end of the 145 page report, whereas what I posted if from the meat of the report.

And those are the findings specific to the bra clasp

 

[otto]

And those are the findings specific to the bra clasp

Does it say something about two DNA samples on the clasp and one of them belongs to Sollecito?

 

[Allusonz]

Does it say something about two DNA samples on the clasp and one of them belongs to Sollecito?

This is very plain language. The findings were erroneous

er·ro·ne·ous (-rn-s)
adj.
Containing or derived from error; mistaken: erroneous conclusions

erroneous [ɪˈrəʊnɪəs]
adj
based on or containing error; mistaken; incorrect

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/erroneous

 

[dgfred]

Any thoughts on what this means?

""Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Does it say that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra clasp?

Yes. IIRC from a pic of the report the profile of RS is much higher (more dna?) than any other profile located.

We already knew that no more testing could be done on the knife, and LCN is accepted by the Italian courts... even if contested.

Contamination could be possible with ANY piece of dna evidence. It is still up to the court to 'find it' or weigh it's possibilities. That is yet to come IMO when the experts are questioned by both the defense/pros/judge.

What could the 'erronous interpretations' be if several top forensic experts in Italy have already reviewed the interpretations as valid and reliable?

What exactly are 'international standards' and who decides these 'standards'?
Does that mean that in ALL the cases using dna evidence, tried in Italy do not use these standards, or are they accepted only in Italy? What exactly does that mean?

Of course contamination is possible from 'environmental' or 'collection/handling'... can it EVER be completely ruled out???

 

[Allusonz]

Yes. IIRC from a pic of the report the profile of RS is much higher (more dna?) than any other profile located.

We already knew that no more testing could be done on the knife, and LCN is accepted by the Italian courts... even if contested.

Contamination could be possible with ANY piece of dna evidence. It is still up to the court to 'find it' or weigh it's possibilities. That is yet to come IMO when the experts are questioned by both the defense/pros/judge.

What could the 'erronous interpretations' be if several top forensic experts in Italy have already reviewed the interpretations as valid and reliable?

What exactly are 'international standards' and who decides these 'standards'?
Does that mean that in ALL the cases tried in Italy do not use these standards, or are they accepted only in Italy? What exactly does that mean?

Of course contamination is possible from 'environmental' or 'collection/handling'... can it EVER be completely ruled out???

It means the findings and those reports were incorrect that were posted. It is what I have been trying to say for some time now. Just because it is a Y chromozone only means that it is male.

They were able to study the .fsa files and what was reported was WRONG by Stephanoni. Period. They cannot make it any plainer

ETA In a mystery when you want to find out who did it you go to the end of the book

 

[otto]

Yes. IIRC from a pic of the report the profile of RS is much higher (more dna?) than any other profile located.

We already knew that no more testing could be done on the knife, and LCN is accepted by the Italian courts... even if contested.

Contamination could be possible with ANY piece of dna evidence. It is still up to the court to 'find it' or weigh it's possibilities. That is yet to come IMO when the experts are questioned by both the defense/pros/judge.

What could the 'erronous interpretations' be if several top forensic experts in Italy have already reviewed the interpretations as valid and reliable?

What exactly are 'international standards' and who decides these 'standards'?
Does that mean that in ALL the cases using dna evidence, tried in Italy do not use these standards, or are they accepted only in Italy? What exactly does that mean?

Of course contamination is possible from 'environmental' or 'collection/handling'... can it EVER be completely ruled out???

I suspect that since there are 3 days set aside to debate the 145 page report that there's a little more to this than a paragraph on the last page, and Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp doesn't give me optimism that the report will result in the two items of DNA being excluded from the evidence.

 

[dgfred]

No, IIRC both the defense and prosecution admitted/said it was RS's dna... only the defense claimed contamination (but couldn't show it).

ETA... I don't agree.

 

[Allusonz]

I suspect that since there are 3 days set aside to debate the 145 page report that there's a little more to this than a paragraph on the last page, and Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp doesn't give me optimism that the report will result in the two items of DNA being excluded from the evidence.

Wrong. They already have been.

 

[Allusonz]

No, IIRC both the defense and prosecution admitted/said it was RS's dna... only the defense claimed contamination (but couldn't show it).

ETA... I don't agree.

You forget that the prosecution did not disclose the raw data. That is were the experts got the conclusions with respect to the bra clasp therefore this is simply very wishful thinking

 

[mdana]

I know this trial is far from over, but I have always been confused on why the guilters latched onto the AK stole from MK or AK was jealous of MK theories of motivation for murder. I always thought those motivations were superfluous, if not ridiculous. Yet, the most sensible motivation for AK to lash out (if there was an actual motivation) was the size of AK's room. I am suprised I have never read a mention of the fact that Amanda had the smallest room in the apartment, but still had to pay the same as the other three girls. I would have thought that would have been the most logical motivation.

Unfortunately, for the guilters they would have had to admit that MK, FR, LM the martyr and saints of their cult were sponging off the Lucretian Lucifer that is AK. Which would have been tantamount to apostasy to admit the selfish self-absorbed satanic one subsidized the rest.


I mean no disrespect to MK or her memory just the fetishized fanacticism of the true "believers".

 

[Allusonz]

No, IIRC both the defense and prosecution admitted/said it was RS's dna... only the defense claimed contamination (but couldn't show it).

ETA... I don't agree.

The prosecution did not DISCLOSE the RAW DATA!!!! to the defense. They were told to disclose it to the experts and in fact ordered to. The findings of the experts were based in part on the RAW DATA. This is past contamination they are stating that the findings of Stephanoni are WRONG

 

[dgfred]

The prosecution did not DISCLOSE the RAW DATA!!!! to the defense. They were told to disclose it to the experts and in fact ordered to. The findings of the experts were based in part on the RAW DATA. This is past contamination they are stating that the findings of Stephanoni are WRONG

Would it be possible for you to debate without using such a rude 'tone' in all your post directed at posters that do not agree with YOUR point of view?

And you are invited to ignore any or all of my post. In fact, it might be the best thing.