Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Allusonz]

I was reading this blog, and they mention that there was a piece of glass in the murder room.

We have never discussed this to my knowledge. Is it so?"



http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.co...gainst-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-ii/

Yes there was glass found in MK's room. I think it is mentioned in the Motivations Report and is also seen on one of the videos. I am really going on memory here as I believe they at first thought glass caused some of her wounds which would make little sense to me. I don't recall that it was collected or tested but it may of been. I am of the thought process that RG tracked it into the room. I really need to look this up again. It is not something that has been discussed much

 

[Allusonz]

For the record, I never found jack about the flip flop or blood on the windowsill.

:loser:

These were things that were stated in the press at the start. I have seen the police photos etc yet have never seen anything that I would consider to be blood. Obviously they were much closer and if it was tested and it came up negative for blood it would not of formed part of the prosecution against them MOO

 

[wasnt_me]

something I hadn't read about the judge yet. Maybe you have:

"The new judge assigned to Knox's case is no stranger to allegations of judicial error. In fact, he was one of three judges who, in 2000, overturned a controversial conviction in the stabbing murder of Cinzia Bruno, setting free a man who had been jailed for more than seven years."

"Bruno's husband, Massimo Pisano, was convicted along with his lover in the stabbing death of Bruno, who was found in 1993 on the banks of the Tiber River, near Rome. He was sentenced to life in prison, a ruling upheld in all three phases of Italian court process, including the Supreme Court."

Then, a "revision" of the case by a three-man court of appeals panel, including Pratillo Hellman, freed Pisano after he had already served seven years, six months and 12 days behind bars."

"The Bruno case is, of course, no indicator of how Pratillo Hellman might approach Knox's case. However, it shows a willingness to go against the judicial grain that is likely to please hopeful Knox supporters."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...eal-777351.php

 

[wasnt_me]

OMG another song? rofl...i just wanted to know how to multi quote now I am listening to a song, again, over and over

Ummm i see the multi quote worked I am simply unsure how it happened lol

It will drive me crazy all night you do realize this don't you

Of course. that's what your jacket and hat are for. Relax with your rubber bottles. I don't know how to use the mult-quote either, as you can see from my posts in a row.

BTW. There will be a sound track when this case is over. AK and RS soundtrack which will include:

Smooth Criminal, Apologize, Circus, that Beatles song about being a dreamer, Starfish and coffee, and just for a bonus, I'm gonna throw in "What do ya want from me!" by adam lambert, because I'm sure that's what Mignini and his crew will be asking when people want them to answer for their mistakes. Also added will be Emeniems song where he says, "I don't know you and I don't owe you a bleeping thing..." because that's what AK and RS will be saying once freed. Though it might not be proper, I will include Antone dodson's "bedroom intruder" song for RG. It might not be appropriate to post here out of respect for MK, so youtube it if you want to see it.

 

[wasnt_me]

These were things that were stated in the press at the start. I have seen the police photos etc yet have never seen anything that I would consider to be blood. Obviously they were much closer and if it was tested and it came up negative for blood it would not of formed part of the prosecution against them MOO

that or they figured out it was RG's blood. Also blood on the windowsill wouldn't fit their scenerio.

 

[dgfred]

I think you may be getting a little/way ahead of yourself.

 

[wasnt_me]

someone wrote this on another forum I was reading and I couldn't help but chuckle at the irony:

I mean, from I can gather, it seems that 2 out of every 3 people incarcerated in italy are actually innocent.

Yes, if you look at AK, RS, And RG, you will see that this statement actually bears out as true!!!
:rocker:

 

[SkewedView]

that or they figured out it was RG's blood. Also blood on the windowsill wouldn't fit their scenerio.

Actually, dgfred or Otto posted a link about it last thread. I can't remember where it was from (the Motivational report maybe?), but it basically said that what they thought was blood was tested and turned out not to be blood or anything else relevant to the case.

 

[wasnt_me]

Did we see this old Frank interview from may?

http://italychronicles.com/amanda-knox-supported-by-silvio-berlusconi/

 

[wasnt_me]

Actually, dgfred or Otto posted a link about it last thread. I can't remember where it was from (the Motivational report maybe?), but it basically said that what they thought was blood was tested and turned out not to be blood or anything else relevant to the case.

<modsnip>

"I'm hearing what you're saying, but I just can't make it out....yeah...and it's too later to apologize! Yeah, yeah!!!"

 

[emyr]

- First and foremost where did the double-DNA on the knife come from? How did AK and MKs DNA get on the knife? Also if the DNA was contaminated why did RS make up a lie as to how MKs DNA possibly could have gotten on it? That make no sense if he were innocent, if it were me I woulda cried BS and said it was planted... not lie about it.
- How did RSs DNA get on the bra clasp? I've read about the questions as to why it was collected later and also wonder about that, but that still doesn't explain his DNA being present... unless it was planted, but I don't really buy that.
- Why do AK and RS have no alibi? Why have they lied over and over again about what happened that night? It makes no sense, they have lied or changed their story about when they ate dinner, how long they slept and about their interactions on the computer and in RSs case whether AK was there the whole night or not... why do that?
- Why didn't AK flush the toilet after she noticed the feces in it while blow drying her hair? Not only is that pretty gross, but really weird for someone not to do that.
- Also going by AKs story why didn't she call the police immediately after seeing the supposed break in? Again really odd.
- Why if RG acted alone did he take the time to clean up and stage a break in? Also I've read that clothes were in the wash when the police arrived, who did that?
- Who's footprints were on the bathmat? Why were small barefoot prints found throughout the flat, especially when apparently RGs footprints lead straight out the door?
-How was AKs blood mixed with MKs blood in various places throughout the flat? I get that they lived there together but mixed DNA of blood after one of the contributors is found dead is pretty damning to me.
- How did AK know that MK "f'ng bleed to death" when that's something she shouldn't have known?
-Why was RS concerned when RG was arrested that he would "make up strange things" when the two supposedly didn't know each other?
- Why was AK's table lamp in MKs room? Could it be to provide more light for a clean up? I was stationed in Germany, and there bedroom's regularly don't have a ceiling light and as I understand it was the same in this particular apartment, so not having the only light source in your room is a pretty big deal..

I know this is way back, but here are my thoughts:
If you were accused of murder and someone said your DNA was found on the murder weapon, and they also gave you a journal and told you to write all of your thoughts in it while you were in jail, would you write in your journal that this seemed impossible to you? That the only answer you could possibly come up with was a scenario where both of your DNA could show up? And then, after writing this in your journal, you never bring this up to the police because you don't really remember it happening that way.

It would be hinky if he told the police to come in and take his statement under oath, that's what had happened, but he didn't. He wrote it in his prison diary as the only explanation he could come up with. But since it wasn't what happened, he didn't pass the scenario along. I don't think that's outside the realm of normal.

-RS DNA on the bra clasp: the new expert report says it was incorrectly identified, that the results do not indiciate that it is his DNA. In terms of the possibility of the clasp being contaminated, I believe the most proposed theory would be that the techs touched the door handle and door that Raf had touched, and then possibly transferred the DNA to the clasp that way. You are supposed to pick up the evidence with disposable tongs, and they picked it up with their hands and touched the clasp.

- I'm interested in seeing how often they changed their stories. I got the impression that they changed that one night under questioning, then switched back to the first version, and pretty much stuck to that afterwards. Am I wrong on that? I don't put much stock in the shifting times of dinner. The part I do remember is Amanda at first said she wasn't sure what order they did things in that night, but if pressed she thinks they were having sex, and then... well maybe they were actually eating dinner at the time, and thena fter that maybe they watched a movie. This kind of lying doesn't seem that damaging to me (as opposed to saying your kid was stolen by a non-existent babysitter for 30 days.... sorry, off topic)

- feces in toilet. One of the complaints Meredith had about Amanda was that she chronically did not flush the toilet. For what it's worth. Also the toilet is pretty far away from the sink.

- calling the police: She didn't realize it was a break-in at first (didn't see the broken window). I actually did live overseas for a semester with 3 other roommates who I met while studying there. I routinely ignored all kinds of random strangeness. When I was in France, the idea of going to a policeman for help, without really being fluent in the language, was a bit terrifying. I would much rather have contacted a friend to help me through the process (unless it could be avoided, which is what I would prefer). Also, I'm wondering if she even brought her cell phone back with her? There was no phone there, and so she might have had to go back to Raf's place to call anyone, or otherwise go to a neighbors to make a call.

- as for staging the break-in, the defense says the break-in wasn't staged.

- AManda Knox's blood could not be mixed with Meredith's because she had no cuts on her body when she was brought in to the police. Amanda's DNA was found mixed with Meredith's blood in the bathroom. The defense says this is because Amanda used that bathroom all the time, so of course her DNA would be found there.

- RS concerned that RG would make up strange things. Well, I think at the time he had been accussed by Mignini of being in a satanic cult and sex game. If he's innocent, I imagine he would be concerned that now that the murderer has been found, that things are going to go badly for him again.

- table lamp. I don't know this answer. They didn't use it in the trial for some reason.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes there was glass found in MK's room. I think it is mentioned in the Motivations Report and is also seen on one of the videos. I am really going on memory here as I believe they at first thought glass caused some of her wounds which would make little sense to me. I don't recall that it was collected or tested but it may of been. I am of the thought process that RG tracked it into the room. I really need to look this up again. It is not something that has been discussed much

I looked it up and I need to know where this glass came from because if MK fell on it, then OBVIOUSLY the window was broken before she died.

As for the wounds on the right and left hands of the victim, Professor Introna expressed strong doubts about the fact that these might be defence wounds. The wounds are extremely tiny, whereas defence wounds are wounds caused by an instinctive action by which the victim being stabbed stops the blade of the knife with the hand and thus suffers enormous cuts. He advance the hypothesis that the victim had received the wounds to the hands by falling onto all fours and encountering tiny fragments of glass on the floor, and in regard to this, he noted that during the
137
inspection, the video of the Scientific Police showed a fragment of glass near a footprint.

MOT page 136

I need to see the video, too, and I need for the prosecution to tell me where this glass came from. Otherwise, "Release the KRAKIN!"

 

[wasnt_me]

I know this is way back, but here are my thoughts:
If you were accused of murder and someone said your DNA was found on the murder weapon, and they also gave you a journal and told you to write all of your thoughts in it while you were in jail, would you write in your journal that this seemed impossible to you? That the only answer you could possibly come up with was a scenario where both of your DNA could show up? And then, after writing this in your journal, you never bring this up to the police because you don't really remember it happening that way.

It would be hinky if he told the police to come in and take his statement under oath, that's what had happened, but he didn't. He wrote it in his prison diary as the only explanation he could come up with. But since it wasn't what happened, he didn't pass the scenario along. I don't think that's outside the realm of normal.

-RS DNA on the bra clasp: the new expert report says it was incorrectly identified, that the results do not indiciate that it is his DNA. In terms of the possibility of the clasp being contaminated, I believe the most proposed theory would be that the techs touched the door handle and door that Raf had touched, and then possibly transferred the DNA to the clasp that way. You are supposed to pick up the evidence with disposable tongs, and they picked it up with their hands and touched the clasp.

- I'm interested in seeing how often they changed their stories. I got the impression that they changed that one night under questioning, then switched back to the first version, and pretty much stuck to that afterwards. Am I wrong on that? I don't put much stock in the shifting times of dinner. The part I do remember is Amanda at first said she wasn't sure what order they did things in that night, but if pressed she thinks they were having sex, and then... well maybe they were actually eating dinner at the time, and thena fter that maybe they watched a movie. This kind of lying doesn't seem that damaging to me (as opposed to saying your kid was stolen by a non-existent babysitter for 30 days.... sorry, off topic)

- feces in toilet. One of the complaints Meredith had about Amanda was that she chronically did not flush the toilet. For what it's worth. Also the toilet is pretty far away from the sink.

- calling the police: She didn't realize it was a break-in at first (didn't see the broken window). I actually did live overseas for a semester with 3 other roommates who I met while studying there. I routinely ignored all kinds of random strangeness. When I was in France, the idea of going to a policeman for help, without really being fluent in the language, was a bit terrifying. I would much rather have contacted a friend to help me through the process (unless it could be avoided, which is what I would prefer). Also, I'm wondering if she even brought her cell phone back with her? There was no phone there, and so she might have had to go back to Raf's place to call anyone, or otherwise go to a neighbors to make a call.

- as for staging the break-in, the defense says the break-in wasn't staged.

- AManda Knox's blood could not be mixed with Meredith's because she had no cuts on her body when she was brought in to the police. Amanda's DNA was found mixed with Meredith's blood in the bathroom. The defense says this is because Amanda used that bathroom all the time, so of course her DNA would be found there.

- RS concerned that RG would make up strange things. Well, I think at the time he had been accussed by Mignini of being in a satanic cult and sex game. If he's innocent, I imagine he would be concerned that now that the murderer has been found, that things are going to go badly for him again.

- table lamp. I don't know this answer. They didn't use it in the trial for some reason.

This post was all kinds of awesome!

:clap::blowkiss::takeabow:

I especially like this part:

- as for staging the break-in, the defense says the break-in wasn't staged.

I like it because I do not EVER think I have heard ANYONE take the defense's word for something, esp without a long explanation, so Bravo! Tides are a changing!

Now, back to this glass....defense wounds, or did she fall on glass that was in her room bc RG tracked it in her room? could the glass be from the broken lamp bulb? Did the lamp bulb even break? Where the hell did this glass come from that was in her room?

 

[wasnt_me]

Now i'm just guessing here.....

Is it possible that MK WAS in RF's room and saw the glass? RG pushed her on the ground, getting the glass on her hands and they both ran to her room, because she wanted to get her phone to call police or get her keys to get out the front door?

That would account for MK's Dna being in FR's room, if it really was indeed in there. Might also be why her hands were in really bad condition when we saw them.

The motivation report then states on page 138:

He explained that the piece of glass was placed near the feet of the victim.

So that was staged, too? Ha! ha!...not even funny. the defense yells that everything's contaminated, the prosecution yells that everything is staged.

The only other thing I can think about that one piece of glass is it came off RG or it came off whomever was in FR's room prior to breaking down the door. Maybe one of the MANY people in the cottage before the discovery got glass on their shoes and that's how it got in there. Just that one piece. that's still not the same as the possible glass cuts on MK's hands.

I know we aren't suspecting FR, but she is the one who yelled, "A foot!" which happens to be where the glass was found, by MK's foot. just saying. FR shows up in the most interesting places.

 

[wasnt_me]

Okay, I was just writing that the defense thinks everything is contaminated, but the prosecution says everything is staged.

We're learning that contamination is definitely a probability. What of the staging?

is it really true that RS and AK somehow got up with RG to kill Mk at the spur of the moment for 300 euros then staged a rape, a breakin, and a clean up? And apparently one piece of glass on the floor? All this over 300 euros?

I mean, we know it can't be a sex game if the rape was staged, right? how does that work?

 

[wasnt_me]

Okay, here's the MOT report's truly idiotic answer about the glass:

Rather, the presence of this small piece of glass in the victim&#8217;s room allows for another consideration. The itinerary that the phantom burglar would have taken, entering via the breaking of the window and window-pane, has already been mentioned: Romanelli&#8217;s room; the living room space crossed to go into the larger bathroom in which he left his sign of usage by not flushing; exit from the larger bathroom; another passage through [161] the living room to go along the hall and enter into Meredith&#8217;s room. If it were so, one is unable to comprehend how it was possible that a piece of glass was dragged from Romanelli&#8217;s room in various places and made to arrive in Meredith&#8217;s room. It is more logical to think that, after the simulation of the burglary and the breaking of the window, the person who did this went into Meredith&#8217;s room &#8211; to close the door and/or to cover her lifeless body with
161
the duvet &#8211; and the glass fragment &#8211; which could have ended up, hypothetically, in a fold of the clothing being worn or in some other place &#8211; came to fall, or rather it came to be brought in Meredith&#8217;s room, into which, immediately after the breaking of the glass, it was carried by whoever broke that glass.

page 160.

So instead of thinking that maybe RG broke the window, looked in MK (dropping the glass first) and Ak's room, checked LM's room and opened her drawer, while over there, got a drink and then decided to take a crap, they assume it happened afterward, when the "fake break in" occurs?

It would make total sense for the burglar to break in, and then look in all the rooms to make sure no one is home. What sense does it make for him to break in and go straight to the bathroom?

Why can't it be that RG went back into FR's room and looked out the window to see if the coast was clear and then tracked it back into Mk's room before he closed the door? why does the glass have to be there as an afterthought result of a staged break in?

I can't believe people get convicted on stuff like this.

 

[Nova]

"Why you gotta be so complicaaaaated???"

(I have NO idea what song that lyric comes from or who sings it.)

:crazy:

I think it's "Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicaaaated?"

Avril Lavigne.

(I have a niece who until this year was a teenager.)

 

[wasnt_me]

One last bit of poor reasoning before I retire:

We believe that the small blood stains in the bathroom were not considered to be significant as to require specific cleaning and the same goes for the stains on the mat which could be explained either by referring to wounds which the criminal would have sustained when entering the house by breaking the glass, or by referring to a loss of blood attributable to menstruation (furthermore, the house was occupied by four young women).

Page 387.

So AK and RS spent the whole night trying to clean their presence out of the house, but they decided that the blood stains in the bathroom were no big deal, because they could just say the killer cut himself while breaking in and that the blood on the mat was period blood.

God, AK walked right into that one with the period blood. If she had not said that to them, I seriously doubt it would have appeared in the report in this manner. Additionally, how stupid of criminals do AK and RS have to be to think that they had to scower the house for traces of themselves, but leave the little bit of blood in the bathroom and on the bathmat. Those would be the quickest and easiest to clean in my opinion. Esp, if they knew it was really footprints on the mat. can you imagine the conversation?

"Oh, leave it. we'll just say someone menastrated on it. I'm tired. Let's go home and play some music."

who reasons like this? it is illogical to think that AK and RS scrubbed their barefoot prints out of the murder room and hallway (while magically leaving RG's prints) but just left their footprints on the bathmat.

And where are the shoes that lit up with luminol to show they didn't wash their feet well either?

What did they clean with? where are the sponges and rags or buckets with blood that they used to clean? where is the pipe in the sink that glows with luminol because lots of blood was washed down the drain? etc, etc, etc....

Sorry, I know we've been over this. I know there was no clean up. I just get mad reading this narrowminded report!!! :maddening:

 

[Nova]

No sir, I am saving that rascal for a good one. Stay tuned!

JREF is a forum, we are speaking of a thread on that forum. It is linked in mdana's earlier post.

It is not supposed to be only ones thinking AK and RS not guilty, but like here one does get 'jumped on' from the not guilty believers just as they feel they are jumped on at PMF and TJMK.

I think the initials are the James Randi Educational Foundation or something like that.

And what about "woo and prejudice"?

A wisely discarded Jane Austin title perhaps?

 

[wasnt_me]

I think it's "Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicaaaated?"

Avril Lavigne.

(I have a niece who until this year was a teenager.)

ah-ha! You're officially on my music committee! :rocker: