Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[wasnt_me]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

Hope you don't have any splinters! :rocker:

I thought that same thing when I first heard about the staging. It'd be logical to use your own room, because it makes you a victim, too. AND if done that way, surely there would have been no FR authority in there messing up the "staged scene!"
:innocent:

 

[Nova]

Haha, thanks. I've seen how it gets from my incessant lurking... It's just like a typical family Christmas. Or is that just my family? :waitasec:

Nope. My family, too.

 

[SMK]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time lurker and decided today to come out of the woodwork.

I never heard about this extra piece of glass... sounds like it should be considered way more important than it seems to have been...

I was also thinking the other day, surely if you were going to stage a break in, you'd stage it from your own room? That would make more sense if you have any forward-thinking about DNA issues later on. Just a thought.

FYI I'm from London and can help with any Brit-perspective issues you guys might encounter.

I love London! :Welcome1::balloons:artyguy2:

 

[wasnt_me]

Thinking more on this glass.

So Micheli, in his report, said he thought the glass landed AFTER MK was dead and the culprits staged the break-in. So as I understand it, people usually cover their victims and (might even close the door) because of remorse of the crime and because they knew the victim.

If this is true, then why in the world would AK and RS kill MK, leave her body out in the open, go "clean up" and stage a break-in, then as an afterthought, return to MK's room, accidentally drop a piece on glass on the floor as they are covering her and locking her room?

Seems to me that if they felt guilty and remorseful, but still had a crime scene to manufacture, step on is cover MK and shut her door, so you don't have to keep looking at her while you're working. Am I wrong? And so if that's the case, how would the glass then wind up in the room?

I see if happening like this: they kill her. Then as RG gets the stuff out her purse, including the keys, AK or RS covers MK and they exit the room. AK then locks the door. RG bolts with phones and perhaps keys. RS and AK proceed to stage stuff. Oh, dophe! Now how do we get the glass fragment in the room?

Well, let's make it more complicated. They cover MK, but leave the door open. Then while pulling the door shut, the glass falls. Oh, dophe! That's by the door, not MK's foot. okay, let's back it up. They forgot the keys and have to walk around the room to find them. better watch out for all the blood on the floor or there'll be more "cleaning" to do....

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I see two logical things wrong with Mic's reasoning on this.

1. That a burglar woul enter the house through the window and go straight to the kitchen and bathroom instead of ducking quickly into the rooms to make sure no one was in them. I especially believe RG would do this since he got confronted by a homeowner on his last job.

2. That Ak and RS covered MK out of remorse or guilt, but they weren't remorseful or guilty enough to cover her immediately. In other words, they looked at her dead body in the middle of the floor the WHOLE time during the clean up and did not choose to distance themselves from her until after they'd staged the break in and performed a clean up.

These two things just don't seem logical to me. If they could stand to look at her while walking around the house and going outside to get rocks, leave her uncovered, then why bother covering her upon leaving?

Anyways, my vote is that RG dropped the glass while checking out the rooms after he climbed through FR's window.

 

[wasnt_me]

I found this in RS's appeal doc. On mine, it's page 164. They are saying that FR gave MORE statements about the scattering of glass in her room, but these statements were ignored in the MOT report.

The ruling, however, has neglected other statements of that witness who
reported: "that was a mixture and then the spot there if I just (...) was a mixture of glass, clothes, glasses (...) Yes, they [the glasses] also below, but also were above "(p. 41 statements Romanelli). These claims were completely and inexplicably ignored in that ruling was limited to only report one side of the deposition of Witness without giving account further clarification provided.

That's certainly interesting, but to be expected.

The appeal doc goes on to point out how AK and RS told the officer on scene about many oddities surrounding the "break in" such as nothing was taken and they too were perplexed about the glass, etc. The appeal asks why AK and RS, if they are the criminals, would point out to police on scene the irregularities in their own coverup?

 

[Malkmus]

The Neverending Nightmare of Amanda Knox

How a naive kid from Seattle was coerced into confessing to a brutal murder and wound up sentenced to 26 years in an Italian jail

The Rolling Stone article.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627

 

[wasnt_me]

I was reviewing the appeal for AK again, and it just struck me. Stephani seems to have done all the friggin work. She collected it, she bagged it, she tested it, she interpreted it. That's wild.

 

[wasnt_me]

It was looking at this again, too. from RS' appeal doc. about RG and the window.

Rudy’s Skype Conversation

During Rudy's skype conversation with Giacomo, Rudy is heard saying:



“They say there was a broken window, but when I was there, there wasn't any broken window; it's a window that's on the left when you're facing the house, the wooden shutters were open so I could see the window, it wasn't broken, and also when I left.”



The defense would like to know how Rudy could have known which of the windows was supposed to be broken. The defense confirms that this precise information was never printed in any newspaper at that time, In fact, it was mistakenly reported that Meredith's bedroom window was broken. The defense believes that there is a very logical reason why Rudy knew which window was broken.



The defense also points out that Amanda and Raffaele would not have chosen Filomena’s window to stage a break in. They could have simply broken the lock on the front door to stage a break in. Why would they go through all that trouble with Filomena’s window? The defense argues that Rudy knew what window was broken during his skype conversation because he broke it to gain entrance to the cottage.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/appeal4.html

I was wondering why he'd say he saw the shutters and they were open. besides lying, because he had to climb up there and open them himself, I could only think of one other thing.

FR was incorrect in her memory of closing the outer shutters. I recall reading her saying that she really couldn't remember cause she'd had them open to have light to change her clothes before going out to the bday party. So what if, in her hurry to wrap gifts and get ready, she really didn't close the window hard enough and the shutters creaked back open? RG happened along, saw them opened and decided to chuck the rock in. Maybe just them being open made that entry way more attractive for RG?

Someone like him would probably spot an open window a mile away. maybe seeing it was just too much to resist. he probably waited around, played some b games just watching to see if anyone was arriving home. seeing that they weren't he went on in there. Wished he'd have done it a lot earlier, then MK would be alive and pissed that she'd been robbed.

I'm not saying FR is lying. I'm saying she had a lot on her mind, changing clothes and getting ready for a party and night with BF, and she might not have secured the window or didn't do it well enough. by her own testimony, she cannot be certain. In fact, Massei is more certain than she is about it.

RS could have been bored for the holiday, in need of money, but headed to the boys' house to smoke and blow off steam. they said he'd come there uninvited before. I don't see testimony that any of them told RS that they wouldn't be home, so when he discovered they weren't home, he saw the window and made new plans.

In the appeal docs, again, there was activity on the street from about 1015pm to 1130pm. the couple had a black man run by them and at the same time saw the broken down people calling the tow truck at 1030pm. That makes me guess the car was stalled at at least 1015pm, 1020pm. They testified that the gate was open and no lights in the cottage. The oliver thrower claimed to be there, too, and even though RG agreed to have seen the oliver thrower (at 9pm, though) I don't believe it. Olive thrower can't be there at 9pm and see the tow truck, too. RG also claimed to see tow truck.

anyway, the question is how this gate was open. Did MK enter and leave it open? was it open when she approached, which might have made her suspicious? Did AK see the gate open or closed the next morning?

The appeal doc does not mention the dark car in the driveway. and as I recall, that couple said that black man wasn't RG.

 

[wasnt_me]

One last thing before zzzzzzzz:

The two forensic experts who testified in the afternoon described the fingerprints found in each room of the house. More than 100 fingerprints were found in the house, but only 52 were found usable for the investigation. Of these, only one was belonged to Knox.

Both witnesses were asked by the judge and defense lawyers if it was strange that only one print of Knox's was found, and they both replied that it was not. There were many prints that could not be clearly identified because they were smudged.

The prosecution has claimed in the past that it was strange that only one single print of Knox's was found in the house where she lived, and it suggested that the crime scene had been cleaned up.

The two fingerprint experts also said that no prints attributable to Knox or Sollecito were found in Kercher's bedroom. The prints that were found there belonged to Guede, Kercher and Kercher's boyfriend Giacomo Silenzi.

Why couldn't the police figure out that there is only one reason that RG, MK, and MK's boyfriend's fingerprints are in MK's room, and not AK or RS's? Did it not occur to them that it's because the three spent significant time in Mk's room???

The BF, GS, wasn't the murderer, MK didn't murder herself, so that leaves.....:waitasec:

Oh, and clean up? you got 50 smudged prints. WTH clean up? I wouldn't let whoever did that clean up wash my paper plates.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/International/story?id=7412123&page=2

 

[Sonata]

I thought that same thing when I first heard about the staging. It'd be logical to use your own room, because it makes you a victim, too. AND if done that way, surely there would have been no FR authority in there messing up the "staged scene!"
:innocent:

I agree. Also, you wouldn't have to worry as much about being potentially caught in the act. Seems to me like the logical way to do things.

I can't remember - were Meredith's keys found? That seems like an important piece of information. I had a little search and couldn't find reference to them aside from Aviello's claim that his brother gave him a set of keys to hide.

 

[SMK]

I agree. Also, you wouldn't have to worry as much about being potentially caught in the act. Seems to me like the logical way to do things.

I can't remember - were Meredith's keys found? That seems like an important piece of information. I had a little search and couldn't find reference to them aside from Aviello's claim that his brother gave him a set of keys to hide.

I do not think the keys were ever found, nor did they follow up on Aviello's claim, which they ought to have if only to dispel it.

 

[Sonata]

So if her keys were never found, that suggests they were taken. Which suggests someone needed them for something since keys hold no intrinsic value themselves. Which suggests that whoever took them didn't have access to any others. So how could all three convicts be involved at once? AK obviously had keys and would have no need to take them, and if she was a co-conspiritor then why would either RS or RG need or want to take them?

 

[SMK]

So if her keys were never found, that suggests they were taken. Which suggests someone needed them for something since keys hold no intrinsic value themselves. Which suggests that whoever took them didn't have access to any others. So how could all three convicts be involved at once? AK obviously had keys and would have no need to take them, and if she was a co-conspiritor then why would either RS or RG need or want to take them?

Right, this is what is said in Hendry's Lone Wolf analysis, that Rudy Guede likely took the keys to get out ( the front door locked in a way that you could not exit without using the key).

 

[SMK]

What Casey's Defense Got Right
With news today that she'll be out of jail on Wednesday, Casey Anthony can teach Amanda Knox about beating a murder charge.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/07/casey-anthony-sentencing-what-she-could-teach-amanda-knox.html

 

[OldSteve]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/07/casey-anthony-sentencing-what-she-could-teach-amanda-knox.html

Only thing is, for AK it's not a case of "beating a murder charge" - that sound like saying AK is guilty and here's how to get around it....

For AK/RS it's all about getting a trial that looks at MK's room and realizes the evidence isn't there in her room to show multiple killers, or that AK/RS were in her room at the time of the murder, and that AK/RS had no tell tail bruises/wounds on them, and MK room shows no signs of an attempted crime scene clean up... all IMO of course.

I often though the prosecution would have a more logical case of charging AK/RS were there that night, in a drug stupor, and either doing nothing to stop it, or even encouraging RG in the brutalization/murder of MK. Again, all IMO...

 

[SMK]

Only thing is, for AK it's not a case of "beating a murder charge" - that sound like saying AK is guilty and here's how to get around it....

For AK/RS it's all about getting a trial that looks at MK's room and realizes the evidence isn't there in her room to show multiple killers, or that AK/RS were in her room at the time of the murder, and that AK/RS had no tell tail bruises/wounds on them, and MK room shows no signs of an attempted crime scene clean up... all IMO of course.

I often though the prosecution would have a more logical case of charging AK/RS were there that night, in a drug stupor, and either doing nothing to stop it, or even encouraging RG in the brutalization/murder of MK. Again, all IMO...

I agree with all you are saying, and the article is written by Barbie Nadeau, so she clearly thinks Amanda would be "beating a murder rap". I just thought it was interesting in that there were a few parallels. I do not believe Casey Anthony committed a pre-meditated murder, but most likely concealed a negligent manslaughter. I thought this was also an interesting point:

But in the end, the two trials did share one thing in common: their verdicts outraged the majority of their followers—Knox’s because she was convicted in a trial that relied heavily on circumstantial evidence, and Anthony’s because she was not convicted in a trial that relied on much of the same. Which just goes to show that justice may be blind, but she’s not without a strong sense of nationality.

 

[wasnt_me]

So if her keys were never found, that suggests they were taken. Which suggests someone needed them for something since keys hold no intrinsic value themselves. Which suggests that whoever took them didn't have access to any others. So how could all three convicts be involved at once? AK obviously had keys and would have no need to take them, and if she was a co-conspiritor then why would either RS or RG need or want to take them?

This is precisely what's pointed out in the appeal docs of AK or RS. I can't remember which one specifically, but one of them said exactly that. It made no sense for RS or AK to take MK's keys. Who would even think to do that for a staging?

 

[wasnt_me]

I agree. Also, you wouldn't have to worry as much about being potentially caught in the act. Seems to me like the logical way to do things.

I can't remember - were Meredith's keys found? That seems like an important piece of information. I had a little search and couldn't find reference to them aside from Aviello's claim that his brother gave him a set of keys to hide.

her keys and the downstairs keys disappeared. I am assuming the downstairs keys were on her chain.

 

[wasnt_me]

GS, the boyfriend's fingerprints were still in MK's room. Enough said about a dang on clean up.

 

[miley]

i havent put a whole lot of thought into the downstairs key, wasntme.
i have wondered what sort of valuables the guys may have had or if rg
was after the pot, music equipment ??

someone went in there
the light switch was smeared with the cats blood right?