Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

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  • #1,541
Massai report:

In answer to a specific question about the so- ‐‑called bench contamination, she explained that this is a contamination which can occur unintentionally at the moment in which one is analysing a sample or a collected biological item, by DNA extraneous to the sample or item inadvertently being placed into contact with the sample or item (page 155). She described this as possible but quite rare. She could exclude that this might have happened for the bra hooks, precisely by the timing and the analysis method used. She added that several exhibits forming part the search on December 18 were being analysed during that same work session. Each exhibit was examined separately, each item being taken in its own envelope, and studied sotto cappa (inside a decontamination fume cupboard) by the operator with single- ‐‑use laboratory paper, filters and tweezers, all these instruments being specially adapted to avoid contamination. She had not repeated the analysis because the results were clear and the procedures had never [238] "ʺevidenced any problems during the course of the analysis"ʺ, and thus the result should be considered as certain (page 156).

This is the level of safety they needed at the lab... but in the field?
‪Amanda Knox - "Unassailable Evidence" - Bra Clasp discovery crime scene video‬‏ - YouTube
Note: I had just read this part and then went to look at the video again, and then wanted to verify that this video was real and not someone trying to make the forensic team look bad.

Also from the Massai report:
With reference then to the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito and the fact that his profile was already present and available to her when she interpreted the collected samples, including the one relating to the hooks, she stated that the data was present as historical fact, but that she did not have it available before her at the moment in which she was interpreting the technical data, nor was she otherwise consulting this biological profile.

It did not appear that any of the various rules and recommendations for proper procedure had not been followed.

elsewhere in the report it states this:

As * for * the * recommendations * put * forth * by * the * scientific * community * according * to * which *the *so-*‐‑called *"ʺsuspect-*‐‑centric"ʺ *method *(in *which *the *geneticist *already *has *the * genetic *profile *of *the *suspect; *and *the *recommendation *is *to *avoid *this *before *having * the * profile, * so * as * not * to * be * influenced * by * it), * Dr. * Stefanoni * stated * that * when * she * did * her * analysis * on * the * various * biological * traces, * she * was * already * in * possession * of * four * swabs, *including *the *profile *of *Patrick *Diya *Lumumba *and *as *well *as *the *victim'ʹs.

**********
My comments on the above Massai report:
It states clearly that suspect-centric method is not approved and not standard. So those on the other forum who were arguing that it is fine to be suspect-centric are incorrect.

Stefanoni, however, stated that she did not do this. I believe one of the points being brought up with the new report is that the new experts do not understand how she could have arrived at this result unless she was being suspect-centric. (she happened to discount peaks as noise or statter that also happened to not match Sollecito's profile, and this happened more than once).

But, as of this moment, it appears to me that no matter what, Sollectio's DNA is on the clasp. I guess I'll need to more thoroughly review the new report to see if there is some reason to disbelieve that.

The end result, however, is there is fresh doubt about Stefanoni's motivations and honesty. If she is being dishonest about being suspect-centric (and did not disclose the TMB test) one wonders if she is also hedging information about possible contamination vectors? What else is she not being forthright about? Was she truly as careful as she stated she was inside the lab?

I guess we'll see what happens on the 25th.
 
  • #1,542
I am feeling uncertain. Is that above video fake? The forensic team is acting in such a Barney Fife manner I feel it must be fake. Did I just post something fake?
 
  • #1,543
Wow, I didn't understand that before. So 13 of Sollecito's allelles were found on the clasp. The internets say 16 is an absoute certainty, and anything over 12 is extremely likely. If you find 16, and you find 4 more that don't match, you would assume the other 4 were part of a second DNA sample, NOT that the profile is of someone else. Am I understanding it correctly?

So then it appears fairly definitive that Sollecito's DNA was in fact the result? And that means the defense must prove it occurred because of contamination (or because it was planted).

Am I right?
Well, this is how it seems to me. IF this guy is correct, it would make the other articles about the bra clasp being totally unreliable appear wrong. :(
 
  • #1,544
I am feeling uncertain. Is that above video fake? The forensic team is acting in such a Barney Fife manner I feel it must be fake. Did I just post something fake?
No, I think that is the real deal.
 
  • #1,545
I know you were.

:crazy:

Others, though, seem too personally invested in being right versus finding the truth.
Yes, it would seem so....:waiting:

ETA: I just am a bit worried at this point....
 
  • #1,546
<snip>
I would be interested to know how many peaks there were on the bra clasp, how many matched Raffaelle's profile, and how many were dismissed. If all were taken, how many people would that match... of the ones that indicated raffaelle, how many people would that match. How many peaks are tested as well? i.e. They test for 100 peaks, 5 peaks could be anyone, 10 peaks could be 1% of the population 9 peaks 10%, 8 peaks 20%... If my profile is peaks at 1 thru 10, and they get a profile of 1 thru 10, and 20 and 30, is it me? If it is 1 thru 10 and 11-15 is it me?

Thanks for your thoughtful response ... lots to think about. To see the graphs for the DNA, start at pg 120 of this report: http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/download/file.php?id=4553
 
  • #1,547
I've been reading some of Franks old entries - bummed that so much is still missing -- but speaking of haplotypes, I thought the part regarding Rudy was interesting:

In other words we go to the crime scene, we pick what we like, we discard what we don’t like, and the case is solved. Have you seen how simple it is? That’s how they probably do at FBI.

Here, instead, we admit everything, no problem. Low copy number DNA and even what is inferior to that, such the one that people call Rudi’s DNA on the victim (which, instead, is not even a genetic profile, being just a haplotype of the Y-chromosome shared by who knows how many males with a common ancestor). We admit even weak evidence, with not fear, but we try to understand its meaning.
http://perugiashock.com/2010/09/10/amanda-knox-case-solved-on-tv/

Is this the RG DNA supposedly found inside MK? Because if it doesn't actually belong to RG, that means the murder may have been much simpler than we've imagined.
 
  • #1,548
Wow, I didn't understand that before. So 13 of Sollecito's allelles were found on the clasp. The internets say 16 is an absoute certainty, and anything over 12 is extremely likely. If you find 16, and you find 4 more that don't match, you would assume the other 4 were part of a second DNA sample, NOT that the profile is of someone else. Am I understanding it correctly?

So then it appears fairly definitive that Sollecito's DNA was in fact the result? And that means the defense must prove it occurred because of contamination (or because it was planted).

Am I right?

Also - did RS ever go through MK's things prior to her murder?
 
  • #1,549
Is this the RG DNA supposedly found inside MK? Because if it doesn't actually belong to RG, that means the murder may have been much simpler than we've imagined.
Seems so. If this is the case, though, it could mean RG simply killed MK to prevent being IDed, during a burglary in progress. BUT there was also a theory that it was a fight between RS, AK, RG, and MK, over money, and the sexual assault was staged, along with a break-in. And why did Guede admit to consensual sex if something sexual had not occurred? He could have said he heard a scuffle and fled, never having gone near MK at all....
 
  • #1,550
Wow, I didn't understand that before. So 13 of Sollecito's allelles were found on the clasp. The internets say 16 is an absoute certainty, and anything over 12 is extremely likely. If you find 16, and you find 4 more that don't match, you would assume the other 4 were part of a second DNA sample, NOT that the profile is of someone else. Am I understanding it correctly?

So then it appears fairly definitive that Sollecito's DNA was in fact the result? And that means the defense must prove it occurred because of contamination (or because it was planted).

Am I right?

My understanding is that the conclusion regarding DNA on the bra clasp is correct, but that contamination cannot be ruled out. To argue contamination, we have to believe that contamination of the clasp occurred in the bedroom and contamination of the knife occurred in the lab. The report seems to point out all sorts of ways that contamination could have occurred, but does not conclusively state that it did occur - keeping in mind that I haven't read the report.

The idea that a speck of DNA from Sollecito managed to get onto Meredith's underwear, even though he had never been in her bedroom, should not have had contact with her underwear and had only been in the cottage 3 times (for social visits), seems really farfetched. If Filomina's DNA had been on the clasp, that would make far more sense in terms of arguing contamination as she had been in the cottage for quite some time, but Sollecitos? That is a very unlucky coincidence for him ... as is his diarized statement that Meredith was cut with the murder weapon when she had dinner at his apartment.
 
  • #1,551
Also - did RS ever go through MK's things prior to her murder?

Sollecito has never stated that he snooped in Meredith's bedroom.
 
  • #1,552
Originally Posted by I don't understand why it's becoming adversarial. It should be about the truth for MK, AK, and RS, not about who gets to say "I told you so" in 10 days. I'm responding because this is your reply to someone who said they would be "reminding" you of something in 10 days. That's childish, IMO.

It should be about finding justice for Meredith and the conviction of all parties that participated in her murder. Arguments that the DNA could have been contaminated, although there is no proof that this happened, should not result in any of the parties involved in the murder walking free.
 
  • #1,553
It should be about finding justice for Meredith and the conviction of all parties that participated in her murder. Arguments that the DNA could have been contaminated, although there is no proof that this happened, should not result in any of the parties involved in the murder walking free.
True, but had Knox and Sollectio actually participated in this murder, it seems there would be more substantial DNA evidence left at the scene. So there is the sense that something is afoul with the evidence. It is not only me, or several posters here; nor Dempsey nor Fisher, nor Hendry et al. It is DNA experts and independent panels and all manner of people finding something fishy......
 
  • #1,554
True, but had Knox and Sollectio actually participated in this murder, it seems there would be more substantial DNA evidence left at the scene. So there is the sense that something is afoul with the evidence. It is not only me, or several posters here; nor Dempsey nor Fisher, nor Hendry et al. It is DNA experts and independent panels and all manner of people finding something fishy......

I don't think we know how much DNA should be found at a crime scene.
 
  • #1,555
  • #1,556

Are there any stats available saying that, in the event of a murder in a humid climate, X amount of DNA must or should be available? I've never seen that information.
 
  • #1,557
Are there any stats available saying that, in the event of a murder in a humid climate, X amount of DNA must or should be available? I've never seen that information.
Then why the outcry from Dr. Hampakian? If we concede to you that Hendry, Fisher, Moore, and Dempsey are part of a nutty PR spin and money-making machine, and that Nova, Wasnt_me, myself, and the others here are gullible kooks, how does one explain Dr. H? and the independent review? Why was this case not just left a slam dunk?
 
  • #1,558
Then why the outcry from Dr. Hampakian? If we concede to you that Hendry, Fisher, Moore, and Dempsey are part of a nutty PR spin and money-making machine, and that Nova, Wasnt_me, myself, and the others here are gullible kooks, how does one explain Dr. H? and the independent review? Why was this case not just left a slam dunk?

There has been a conviction, and the culprits are desperately grasping at the possibility that contamination could have occurred in order to reverse the verdict. We know have confirmation that it's possible that contamination could occur, but no confirmation that it did occur.

Why would anyone expect large amounts of DNA to be all over a crime scene? In most cases I've followed, I recall claims like: a tiny piece of DNA was found on some item of clothing, or a partial print was found on a surface. I don't recall any case where it was said that huge amount of the culprits DNA was spread all over the crime scene. In the murder of Nancy Cooper, there was no evidence that a murder had occurred in the home (where she was likely murdered). In the murder of Laci Peterson, again there was no evidence that a murder had occurred other than her body in a remote area. Can you think of any case where there was abundant DNA from a culprit at a murder scene (excluding blood and semen).
 
  • #1,559
There has been a conviction, and the culprits are desperately grasping at the possibility that contamination could have occurred in order to reverse the verdict. We know have confirmation that it's possible that contamination could occur, but no confirmation that it did occur.

Why would anyone expect large amounts of DNA to be all over a crime scene? In most cases I've followed, I recall claims like: a tiny piece of DNA was found on some item of clothing, or a partial print was found on a surface. I don't recall any case where it was said that huge amount of the culprits DNA was spread all over the crime scene. In the murder of Nancy Cooper, there was no evidence that a murder had occurred in the home (where she was likely murdered). In the murder of Laci Peterson, again there was no evidence that a murder had occurred other than her body in a remote area. Can you think of any case where there was abundant DNA from a culprit at a murder scene (excluding blood and semen).
:waitasec:.......................but.....but........:razz: Why do so many believe - really believe - that these 2 are innocentis????
 
  • #1,560
:waitasec:.......................but.....but........:razz: Why do so many believe - really believe - that these 2 are innocentis????

When Scott Peterson was suspected of murdering his wife, his family protested his innocence ... we see the same thing from the families of Knox and Sollecito. With Peterson, there were websites that completely supported him and many people that believed he was innocent. Fast forward about 10 years and we have the same situation, but with much better developed social media.

Knox/Mellas not only used social media to influence people into believing that Knox was innocent, but they hired a PR firm to portray Knox as a innocent in US news. As the evidence was presented in court, some people had difficulty believing that she was innocent, while others looked at each piece of evidence and tried to find ways to explain it. For example, it's "Amanda the Amelie", she didn't lie about the time of dinner - she was confused and maybe she ate dinner three times that evening, she has an alibi - she was at Raffaeles, Raffaele has an alibi - he was on the computer even though there is no electronic record, she didn't really accuse an innocent man of murder - the police made her do it by depriving her of food and drink for 2 hours and bopping her on the head, and so on.

I'm pretty sure that Ms Anthony is guilty of murdering her daughter, but the jury thinks she didn't do it. Some people think Knox didn't murder Meredith, but the jury thinks she did.
 
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