Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[wasnt_me]

Thanks for the Mignini quote... It does put into question the satanic rite argument. To be honest, I don't think the defense would just make such a thing up, and I think that it was more likely an exaggeration of Mignini's masonic/"halloween rite" theory. It had to have come from somewhere, and as someone else pointed out, since Mignini's never charged anyone with slander for it, it must be true to some degree considering his track record.

You must have not seen the other posts that lrnf weight to this being his original theory? The articles cited before all indicated that Mignini said this stuff in court. Then the Defense attorney's apparently exited court and told the journalists what was said in court--as they always do. So it does not appear that they made it up.

 

[Malkmus]

Ok Malkmus I simply could hug you right now. So this states she did not so call confess till 5:45?


ETA I need to go look at these rofl

Well, I think that's actually just more evidence that we can't trust much of this article. We have her signed 1:45am statement implicating herself and Patrick. However, reading the two statements she made I don't see how anyone can think those words came out of her mouth, and considering the second statement made with Mignini present is the same but different with small changes that suited ILE's theory of the crime.

 

[Malkmus]

You must have not seen the other posts that lrnf weight to this being his original theory? The articles cited before all indicated that Mignini said this stuff in court. Then the Defense attorney's apparently exited court and told the journalists what was said in court--as they always do. So it does not appear that they made it up.

Yes, I'm aware of those, and I don't think the defense made it up. But I had asked Sherlock to cite where Mignini denied making the claim and he did. But as I said, I don't think him denying it means he never came up with it. I think he can get away with denying he ever made that the motive because, as BN stated in her book, the judge threw it out before the trial started - so it never came to fruition.

What I would like to hear from Mignini is not juts a denial, but an explanation of how this idea came to be and why the media and defense would repeat it.

ETA: In the CNN interview Mignini chalks up the satanic rite claim to a "conspiracy" against him and says "I read, there was a reporter, – I don’t know his name, I mention it because I noticed it, – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it’s not like that." Sounds like he is blaming Douglas Preston, who is not at all responsible for what was reported from the courthouse steps, or by Barbie Nadeau in her book. I'm not buying it.

 

[wasnt_me]

Here's something inane. Mignini apparently said this in closing argugments:

Amanda and Raffaele, he said, had been anxiously waiting in Piazza Grimana until 11 P.M., looking over the wall periodically because they were waiting for Rudy, with whom Amanda had made a date, maybe to share drugs, maybe just to party.

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Locations 4534-4536). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

It's absurd for the prosecution to think AK had a date with PL because of "see you later" in a text. Now, even without a phone call or text, AK has a date with RG? How does that compute?

 

[Allusonz]

Well, I think that's actually just more evidence that we can't trust much of this article. We have her signed 1:45am statement implicating herself and Patrick. However, reading the two statements she made I don't see how anyone can think those words came out of her mouth, and considering the second statement made with Mignini present is the same but different with small changes that suited ILE's theory of the crime.

Very true and that to me has not changed. What has always bothered me though, ok make that 2 things is they state that AK is a witness yet RS supposedly confessed at 10:40

Once a person does confess is usually only when the interrogation ends, thus I have been fighting that the so called confession was at 1:45 and they could not of got what they wanted till the 5:45

Thus, even though I still believe the statements to be coerced, the 1:45 just simply never made sense to me

 

[wasnt_me]

Mig also said this, apparently in court, closing arguments:

She imagined Lumumba instead of Rudy Guede because they have something in common: both are black. Why didn’t she tell us the message was generic? Why didn’t she just say we had no meeting? Her answer is ‘I was confused.’ So the only way to justify slander is to blame police pressure.”

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Locations 4568-4570). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

All she had to do was tell them there was no meeting???????????:floorlaugh:

 

[Malkmus]

Mig also said this, apparently in court, closing arguments:

She imagined Lumumba instead of Rudy Guede because they have something in common: both are black. Why didn’t she tell us the message was generic? Why didn’t she just say we had no meeting? Her answer is ‘I was confused.’ So the only way to justify slander is to blame police pressure.”

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Locations 4568-4570). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

All she had to do was tell them there was no meeting???????????:floorlaugh:

This is insane. The text message was their mistake, not hers, and they later found out it never could have meant a meeting with anybody anyway. So what does it matter in the long-run that she was unable to convince them a non-existent meeting never took place? This is some of the poorest logic I've ever heard of.

 

[Malkmus]

Here's something inane. Mignini apparently said this in closing argugments:

Amanda and Raffaele, he said, had been anxiously waiting in Piazza Grimana until 11 P.M., looking over the wall periodically because they were waiting for Rudy, with whom Amanda had made a date, maybe to share drugs, maybe just to party.

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Locations 4534-4536). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

It's absurd for the prosecution to think AK had a date with PL because of "see you later" in a text. Now, even without a phone call or text, AK has a date with RG? How does that compute?

They must have used smoke signals.

 

[SMK]

Here's something inane. Mignini apparently said this in closing argugments:

Amanda and Raffaele, he said, had been anxiously waiting in Piazza Grimana until 11 P.M., looking over the wall periodically because they were waiting for Rudy, with whom Amanda had made a date, maybe to share drugs, maybe just to party.

Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (Kindle Locations 4534-4536). Broadway. Kindle Edition.

It's absurd for the prosecution to think AK had a date with PL because of "see you later" in a text. Now, even without a phone call or text, AK has a date with RG? How does that compute?

Also, if TOD is 9:30, as Hendry has said, then waiting until 11 PM was way off the timeline.

 

[sherlockh]

But you just said that you didn't think any of the three of them would have committed murder on their own. That you feel a group dynamic was needed for such a thing to happen, and that two hours is enough for such a group dynamic to create a situation where an actual, violent, murder with multiple knives was committed.

So a group dynamic of 13 people, who say you are lying, who point out the text of a man you worked with, isn't enough of a group dynamic? Two hours in THAT group dynamic is not enough to get caught up in the situation and accuse an innocent man, and say you were present at a murder you didn't commit?

The same for Sollecito. In a group dynamic of several hours, and being told there is proof positive your girlfriend was not with you that night, THAT'S not enough of a group dynamic to get swept up and falsely state that she wasn't with you that night?

If they are believed to be so weak-willed that they would commit a murder... isn't it more plausible to believe they are so weak-willed that they would lie?

Are you sure I said all that??? You make it sound as if they came together and made up some kind of ingenious plan to murder Meredith. I never thought that it happened that way. IMO it is much simpler and less complicated. The murder was a result of something silly and stupid where the wrong people came together.

I don't understand what you mean with your weak-willed stuff. Apples and oranges. Sollecito (and AK) came into the police station somewhere after 10pm and within half an hour they had written down his statement. Where do you come up with your hours? He doesn't claim any head hitting, or police that imagined what he should imagine leading him onto the path of imagination (as AK would like us to believe). He said straight that he lied, that his girlfriend told him to lie, and he didn't realize the inconsistencies. How much clearer do you want it?

 

[dgfred]

Did someone say FR was the daughter of a lawyer? Perhaps she called her father who told her the lazy Perugian police would immediately look at the other residents of the apartment.

Well, at least this time you said 'perhaps'...

Perhaps Filomena told her dad she thinks her lazy cottage mate AK killed Meredith and might drag her into it. Perhaps that was AK's plan, to call Filomena and get her to find the body and contaminate/confuse the crime scene even more than AK already had tried to do. Perhaps Filomena's dad told her to tell the truth and don't accuse anybody of rape/murder. Perhaps her dad told her that if she already told a lie, to try to correct it as soon as possible. Perhaps she contacted a lawyer in regards to their lease and what had happened at the cottage. Perhaps comes in handy.

 

[dgfred]

Are you sure I said all that??? You make it sound as if they came together and made up some kind of ingenious plan to murder Meredith. I never thought that it happened that way. IMO it is much simpler and less complicated. The murder was a result of something silly and stupid where the wrong people came together.

I don't understand what you mean with your weak-willed stuff. Apples and oranges. Sollecito (and AK) came into the police station somewhere after 10pm and within half an hour they had written down his statement. Where do you come up with your hours? He doesn't claim any head hitting, or police that imagined what he should imagine leading him onto the path of imagination (as AK would like us to believe). He said straight that he lied, that his girlfriend told him to lie, and he didn't realize the inconsistencies. How much clearer do you want it?

Want it clear as mud, can't you tell? :crazy:

Thanks sherlockh!

 

[SMK]

Are you sure I said all that??? You make it sound as if they came together and made up some kind of ingenious plan to murder Meredith. I never thought that it happened that way. IMO it is much simpler and less complicated. The murder was a result of something silly and stupid where the wrong people came together.

I don't understand what you mean with your weak-willed stuff. Apples and oranges. Sollecito (and AK) came into the police station somewhere after 10pm and within half an hour they had written down his statement. Where do you come up with your hours? He doesn't claim any head hitting, or police that imagined what he should imagine leading him onto the path of imagination (as AK would like us to believe). He said straight that he lied, that his girlfriend told him to lie, and he didn't realize the inconsistencies. How much clearer do you want it?

While I certainly do not expect anyone to take the Burleigh text as Gospel, it does indicate something very different to what I bolded in your post: That Sollecito began to speak like this when the police repeatedly refused to accept what he was telling them, that he and Amanda had been together at home - and after they told him he was mixed up, that they knew she met PL, knew she was covering for someone, knew she was involved....

 

[dgfred]

What does that matter?

Of course the police do not have to tell the truth to witnesses turned suspects. That is part of the trick to get them to confess or name the other accused (all over the world). Nothing wrong with it IMO. The truth has no need of lies.

 

[SMK]

What does that matter?

Of course the police do not have to tell the truth to witnesses turned suspects. That is part of the trick to get them to confess or name the other accused (all over the world). Nothing wrong with it IMO. The truth has no need of lies.

Then why use lies to get to it? Lying to someone when you know they are withholding the truth is one thing. Lying to confuse them about someone they have only known for a week is another. I think Dr. Sollecito told Raffaele shortly after to distance himself from Amanda, that she "knew something".

As Amanda said, "I know I did not kill Meredith, so I have nothing but lies to be afraid of."

 

[dgfred]

IMO you are looking at it from a different point of view... not why lie to find out the truth but:

Instead, what would be wrong with lying/withholding the truth to get a murderer to confess about the murder or another person involved in the murder? Nothing IMO.

 

[SMK]

IMO you are looking at it from a different point of view... not why lie to find out the truth but:

Instead, what would be wrong with lying/withholding the truth to get a murderer to confess about the murder or another person involved in the murder? Nothing IMO.

No, if one were really sure that the person had murdered, then in that case, nothing wrong with being sly to get a confession, no.

I would have no qualms if I felt the evidence were solid and beyond reasonable doubt that AK and RS were involved in the murder. There is nothing about RS and AK, to me, which is "too good" for prison, or to be culpable of murder.

 

[SMK]

Just someone's opinion of the schedule. This is sure dragging on and on...:waiting:

I think that a September wrap to this trial is near-impossible. Stefanoni will appear on the 5th September, then closing arguments will begin immediately thereafter. In the Massei trial, the argument phase lasted for three and a half weeks, and the deliberation lasted for around a week. I get the feeling that the defence teams will spend significantly longer on their argument than they did in the first trial (in which they spent barely a week in argument).

I therefore get the impression that the verdict will not come until mid-October at the earliest, and that it might even get pushed into November. But that's not to say that I might be totally wrong, and that the argument phase might only take a couple of weeks in this trial!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=215085&page=47

 

[Allusonz]

Well, at least this time you said 'perhaps'...

Perhaps Filomena told her dad she thinks her lazy cottage mate AK killed Meredith and might drag her into it. Perhaps that was AK's plan, to call Filomena and get her to find the body and contaminate/confuse the crime scene even more than AK already had tried to do. Perhaps Filomena's dad told her to tell the truth and don't accuse anybody of rape/murder. Perhaps her dad told her that if she already told a lie, to try to correct it as soon as possible. Perhaps she contacted a lawyer in regards to their lease and what had happened at the cottage. Perhaps comes in handy.

This perhaps could of happened

 

[Allusonz]

They must have used smoke signals.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

or telepathy :giggle: