Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[OldSteve]

But Steve:

Evidence that AK handled the knife.
Evidence that RS handled the bra clasp.
Bruising consistant with being held by the arms and neck.
Several different knife wounds = multiple knives.
No evidence of defensive wounds = possibility of being unable to resist.
Possibility the towels/other were used to wipe some evidence of others.

*Did you notice the six crime techs in the room during the collection videos?

I defer to:
http://abcnews.go.com/International...tired-fbi-agent-steve-moore/story?id=11541334

 

[SMK]

But Steve:

Evidence that AK handled the knife.has been called into question by independent experts :razz:
Evidence that RS handled the bra clasp. Ditto :razz:
Bruising consistant with being held by the arms and neck. Mebbe:waitasec:
Several different knife wounds = multiple knives. Mebbe:waitasec:
No evidence of defensive wounds = possibility of being unable to resist.Mebbe:waitasec:
Possibility the towels/other were used to wipe some evidence of others.Mebbe:waitasec:

*Did you notice the six crime techs in the room during the collection videos?

Did you see my other posts, fred ol boy?:seeya:

 

[dgfred]

I realize their claims... I was more interested in what you thought.

 

[SMK]

I defer to:
http://abcnews.go.com/International...tired-fbi-agent-steve-moore/story?id=11541334

Great link, Steve. Very compelling, despite the attacks on Moore by certain others...:snooty::snooty:

 

[SMK]

I realize their claims... I was more interested in what you thought.

Who, me or Steve? I of course gave my own thoughts as commentary within my posts :snooty:

 

[dgfred]

Did you see my other posts, fred ol boy?:seeya:

Yes, ol girl.

I am hesitating replying to some other's post, since when I reply to you I get slapped from all different directions regarding our discussions.

 

[SMK]

Yes, ol girl.

I am hesitating replying to some other's post, since when I reply to you I get slapped from all different directions regarding our discussions.

:slap:

 

[dgfred]

I defer to:
http://abcnews.go.com/International...tired-fbi-agent-steve-moore/story?id=11541334

You deferred to Moore, claiming in just one article:

He would send his daughter to room with AK if she needed a flatmate.

He has obtained autopsy photos and legal documentation BUT has NEVER talked to AK's family or lawyers.

Italy used tactics of interrogation similar to third-world intelligence agencies.

Her interrogation was 8 hours.

She recanted her dream after she was given food... since she had been deprived of water, food, and bathroom breaks.

etc. :innocent: :innocent:

 

[OldSteve]

I realize their claims... I was more interested in what you thought.

I don't see the kind of evidence a brutal murder involving more than one person being produced in MK room -
Should have blood smears on floors, walls, prints in the blood...
MK should have pulled out clumps of AK/RS hair..
No way to selectively clean up the room remove AK/RS evidence without smearing things...
No marks or bruising on AK/RS, yet it was mentioned MK knew how to kick...
None of what happened seems like a sex orgie gone wrong - it was what it was - brutal, horrible taking of Meridith's life by the person who had a knife at her throat and thrust it upwards with much force.. --- all is my opinion of course..

 

[dgfred]

I don't see the kind of evidence a brutal murder involving more than one person being produced in MK room -
Should have blood smears on floors, walls, prints in the blood...
MK should have pulled out clumps of AK/RS hair..
No way to selectively clean up the room remove AK/RS evidence without smearing things...
No marks or bruising on AK/RS, yet it was mentioned MK knew how to kick...
None of what happened seems like a sex orgie gone wrong - it was what it was - brutal, horrible taking of Meridith's life by the person who had a knife at her throat and thrust it upwards with much force.. --- all is my opinion of course..

But each point has an opposing view:

No blood smears if they didn't touch blood. Two guys holding Meredith, leaves a girl with no hair pulled out. If they didn't step in blood, no footprints to clean. How can Meredith kick if she is being held by two and there are at least two knives threatening her? The sex-game motive is only one of several possibilites... such as rage, prank, none, etc.

 

[SMK]

But each point has an opposing view:

No blood smears if they didn't touch blood. Two guys holding Meredith, leaves a girl with no hair pulled out. If they didn't step in blood, no footprints to clean. How can Meredith kick if she is being held by two and there are at least two knives threatening her? The sex-game motive is only one of several possibilites... such as rage, prank, none, etc.

Yes, but how feasible would this be without it being suggested? I have a difficult time picturing it, unless pot does more to you than I thought...what would cause them to attack with Guede, and why did he not blame them initially? How would this escalate? First it was a sex game, then it was a row over money....Does not reasonable doubt come into play with the 3 on 1? :waitasec: I think the lone wolf follows Occam's razor guidelines: Choose the simplest theory which accommodates all the facts...

 

[dgfred]

Yes, but how feasible would this be without it being suggested? I have a difficult time picturing it, unless pot does more to you than I thought...what would cause them to attack with Guede, and why did he not blame them initially? How would this escalate? First it was a sex game, then it was a row over money....Does not reasonable doubt come into play with the 3 on 1? :waitasec: I think the lone wolf follows Occam's razor guidelines: Choose the simplest theory which accommodates all the facts...

Well, here goes. I'll try to dodge the slaps.

Pot plus (.....?) may equal less inhibition and possible violence, etc.

Could AK have met RG in town once she knew she was not going to work?

Could they have made a drug deal? Could they have met later or gone together to party at the cottage? Were they blitzed out of their minds?

Could AK have taken advantage of the fact that RG 'fancied' her?
Could AK have mention Meredith as a possible 'date' for RG instead of herself?

Could AK, after partying, have wanted to pull a prank on Meredith? A possible fake assault, or fake kidnapping sort of thing?

Could it have involved theft of Meredith's money? IIRC AK had not been paid and RS was low on funds in his account. RG also mentions money as a motive
and AK would have known where Meredith kept the rent money.

Could Meredith have been unhappy about AK's past behavior and partying at the cottage when she was hoping for a quiet study night? Fight began.

The lone wolf will never work in my opinion with the evidence of a staged break-in and evidence of RS (bathmat print), AK (dna mixed with Meredith's blood) in several locations added on top of the lies/no alibi/contradictions/evasion during questioning.

I see lots of possibilities.

 

[SMK]

fred????

 

[SMK]

Well, here goes. I'll try to dodge the slaps.

Pot plus (.....?) may equal less inhibition and possible violence, etc.

Could AK have met RG in town once she knew she was not going to work?

Could they have made a drug deal? Could they have met later or gone together to party at the cottage? Were they blitzed out of their minds?

Could AK have taken advantage of the fact that RG 'fancied' her?
Could AK have mention Meredith as a possible 'date' for RG instead of herself?

Could AK, after partying, have wanted to pull a prank on Meredith? A possible fake assault, or fake kidnapping sort of thing?

Could it have involved theft of Meredith's money? IIRC AK had not been paid and RS was low on funds in his account. RG also mentions money as a motive
and AK would have known where Meredith kept the rent money.

Could Meredith have been unhappy about AK's past behavior and partying at the cottage when she was hoping for a quiet study night? Fight began.

The lone wolf will never work in my opinion with the evidence of a staged break-in and evidence of RS (bathmat print), AK (dna mixed with Meredith's blood) in several locations added on top of the lies/no alibi/contradictions/evasion during questioning.

I see lots of possibilities.

Okie, am contemplating them, thanks!!:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

Well, here goes. I'll try to dodge the slaps.:great:

Pot plus (.....?) may equal less inhibition and possible violence, etc. Possible, not probable.....:waitasec:

Could AK have met RG in town once she knew she was not going to work? Possible.....

Could they have made a drug deal? Could they have met later or gone together to party at the cottage? Were they blitzed out of their minds? Maybe, but how do we leap to this?

Could AK have taken advantage of the fact that RG 'fancied' her?
Could AK have mention Meredith as a possible 'date' for RG instead of herself? Ditto....

Could AK, after partying, have wanted to pull a prank on Meredith? A possible fake assault, or fake kidnapping sort of thing? Possible, but how likely? How often does someone decide to fake an assault?

Could it have involved theft of Meredith's money? IIRC AK had not been paid and RS was low on funds in his account. RG also mentions money as a motive
and AK would have known where Meredith kept the rent money. Yes, possible.

Could Meredith have been unhappy about AK's past behavior and partying at the cottage when she was hoping for a quiet study night? Fight began. From what I read, they all brought men home, all smoked pot....but maybe she simply did not like Amanda....

The lone wolf will never work in my opinion with the evidence of a staged break-in and evidence of RS (bathmat print), AK (dna mixed with Meredith's blood) in several locations added on top of the lies/no alibi/contradictions/evasion during questioning. If I were convinced of all these, I would concur of course.

I see lots of possibilities.

SEE MY REMARKS in above quote.....
Yes, if one could really nail down all these facts, there are. Although if TOD is 9:30, Guede as lone wolf wins the day. He did express that he was lurking about.....:waitasec: THANKS, MY OL' BOY!!:seeya:

 

[SMK]

Candace Dempsey shared her premonition that this freedom walk will be Amanda's and Raffaele's this fall: Hope she is not too optimistic....:waitasec:



[video=youtube;z0WLCJ26Emc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0WLCJ26Emc[/video]

 

[Nova]

Well, here goes. I'll try to dodge the slaps.

Pot plus (.....?) may equal less inhibition and possible violence, etc.

Could AK have met RG in town once she knew she was not going to work?

Could they have made a drug deal? Could they have met later or gone together to party at the cottage? Were they blitzed out of their minds?

Could AK have taken advantage of the fact that RG 'fancied' her?
Could AK have mention Meredith as a possible 'date' for RG instead of herself?

Could AK, after partying, have wanted to pull a prank on Meredith? A possible fake assault, or fake kidnapping sort of thing?

Could it have involved theft of Meredith's money? IIRC AK had not been paid and RS was low on funds in his account. RG also mentions money as a motive
and AK would have known where Meredith kept the rent money.

Could Meredith have been unhappy about AK's past behavior and partying at the cottage when she was hoping for a quiet study night? Fight began.

The lone wolf will never work in my opinion with the evidence of a staged break-in and evidence of RS (bathmat print), AK (dna mixed with Meredith's blood) in several locations added on top of the lies/no alibi/contradictions/evasion during questioning.

I see lots of possibilities.

The problem is there is no evidence for most of the "possibilities" listed. And the prosecution's burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not merely to list possibilities.

(In fact, I think very few of your possibilities are actually possible, given the time and language constraints, but I'm responding here for purposes of discussion.)

 

[Salem]

Yes, ol girl.

I am hesitating replying to some other's post, since when I reply to you I get slapped from all different directions regarding our discussions.

Fred - if you are referring to me, I do want you to know that I don't mind a little friendly back and forth. It is just that often - I can't tell what is friendly back and forth and what is not. If I can't tell, then yes, :slap: often happens.

Salem

 

[Nova]

SEE MY REMARKS in above quote.....
Yes, if one could really nail down all these facts, there are. Although if TOD is 9:30, Guede as lone wolf wins the day. He did express that he was lurking about.....:waitasec: THANKS, MY OL' BOY!!:seeya:

And the problem is that the facts can't be "nailed down" and never will be because the investigation was so sloppy.

When LE screws up, the benefit of the doubt must be given to the defense.

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

And the prosecution's burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not merely to list possibilities.

And above, Wasnt_me brought up a good point about the defense "shouldn't have to prove innocence."

My question is: Is this true in Italy? Does the prosecution have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt," similar to our standards in the US?

Also - Is the defense's job to make the prosecution prove it's case (as it is in the US) or does the defense in Italy have to go further?

Hope that makes sense,

Salem