Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[SMK]

You know,

I am almost venturing to guess that two crimes occured that night in the area. I seriously am. I don't know what the second crime was, but I went back to those statements I provided for Nova of what other people "heard" that night. Then, if you add to it that the couple who'd gone to the movies saw a black man run by them and almost knock them over---BUT they apparently said he was NOT RG, and you add the bloody tissues found in the street, etc, I'm guessing two crimes occurred.

One crime was related to a scream at a different time, the "animated arguing," the unidentified black man running, the others running up the street (where the tissues were found), and the tissues.

The other crime was MK.

I don't know. I say that because I still think it's impossible for Nara to have heard MK scream. She was across the street, in the cottage with all the doors and windows closed, except maybe FR's window. Her room is in the back of that cottage, and sound gets more muffled as it has to go through walls, and glass as it travels.

Anyways, I find it bizarre that the couple saw a black man push by them, but they did not identify him as RG, but HIS running--whoever he was--could have been what Nara and the other person heard--or they might not have heard a dang on thing. I don't know.

I also don't know about tow trucks in italy, but here, they have yellow lights, and you can hear them jacking up a car. I'm surprised that no ear witnesses mentioned this, even if they looked out the window, I'd think they'd see flashing lights.

And I still find it odd that many witnesses confused the night of Halloween with the night of Nov 1st, so it's not a stretch that some of this really did happen on Oct 31st.

Frank pointed this out awhile back on Perugia Shock, about the black man seen running, in a post entitled, "It Wasn't Rudy".

 

[SMK]

Interesting that Candace Dempsey (author of Murder in Italy, about Amanda Knox) is posting on Facebook about this University of WA student who fell to her death in Italy.

What is interesting is that with regard to this new incident, on Facebook, Dempsey is recommending that the roommates leave Italy, as the prosecutor is ordering an autopsy and investigation. She claims they could wind up like Knox and Sollectio....

http://www.lanazione.it/laspezia/cronaca/2011/08/14/562517-stato_incidente.shtml

 

[Nova]

I second every bit of this. Thanks!

And I believe it's one more place where the cucumbers and pickles question can be eliminated. The truth of the matter is, this is the window we are discussing. Whether anyone feels he didn't break it, based upon the desirablity doesn't even matter, because this is the window in question. From here, it's a matter of whether the evidence supports that he actually broke in that way or if it were staged, because the same questions arises during the staged break-in. Why in hell would Ak and RS pick the undesirable window to stage the break in, if everyone else in the world believes it should be the balcony or the kitchen? What makes AK and RS the idiots who picked the wrong window? I think him picking the "less desirable window" is more proof that it's real.

In addition, Hendry points out that window was the least visible from the road, because of the curve of the road and the fact that the large tree still had leaves on the night of the murder.

But you're right, SOMEbody chose to break that window, best entry point or not.

 

[SMK]

In addition, Hendry points out that window was the least visible from the road, because of the curve of the road and the fact that the large tree still had leaves on the night of the murder.

But you're right, SOMEbody chose to break that window, best entry point or not.

Problem is, many claim it was Knox and Sollecito staging a break-in recklessly.

 

[SMK]

Just from something we had discussed on this forum awhile back, about Kercher family attorney and the seeking of $$$$ in civil suit. MK's brother addresses this within this tape, and explains it pretty well:

[video=youtube;JYmbGtdQSag]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYmbGtdQSag&feature=related[/video]

 

[SMK]

Candace Dempsey is writing an article on how TJMK added words to Steve Moore's article and twisted his meanings. Should be interesting, and will post the link when her piece appears.

In many ways, TJMK seems a very professional if one-sided site, so am curious to see the piece....

ETA:Actually, just saw now that this is actually not Dempsey but a different author, on United for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito group....

 

[sherlockh]

Problem is, many claim it was Knox and Sollecito staging a break-in recklessly.

Why is that a problem? You can't expect the 'perfect' explanation for every little detail. Especially if multiple scenarios are possible. For the broken window it was either a 'not so smart' rushed decision, or a more considerate decision in relation to AK's silly shower story. With a staged break-in through the kitchen or balcony she could not have kept that one up. It would also depends on what time the window was broken (at night or only the next day when somebody could have seen her going to the cottage). Anyway, there is no way to be sure why exactly they chose that window. JMO.

 

[SMK]

Why is that a problem? You can't expect the 'perfect' explanation for every little detail. Especially if multiple scenarios are possible. For the broken window it was either a 'not so smart' rushed decision, or a more considerate decision in relation to AK's silly shower story. With a staged break-in through the kitchen or balcony she could not have kept that one up. It would also depends on what time the window was broken (at night or only the next day when somebody could have seen her going to the cottage). Anyway, there is no way to be sure why exactly they chose that window. JMO.

It is of course a problem, and remains so, if one believes that they were not involved, and the scene was not staged. This was the "problem" I was referring to. If conversely they were involved, and did the staging, then no, it is no longer a problem, which window they chose to break.

The shower story, I am not getting....please explain....:waitasec:

you mean THIS shower story??? And I am curious as to why this resonates so roundly with me, her confusion seeming so authentic. Isn't it a bit clever and realistic, and detail-oriented, if it was a lie?

it was on the mat i was using to dry my feet and there were
drops of blood in the sink. at first i thought the blood might have
come from my ears which i had pierced extrensively not too long ago,
but then immediately i know it wasnt mine becaus the stains on the mat
were too big for just droplets form my ear, and when i touched the
blood in the sink it was caked on already. there was also blood
smeered on the faucet. again, however, i thought it was strange,
because my roommates and i are very clean and we wouldnt leave blood
int he bathroom, but i assumed that perhaps meredith was having
menstral issues and hadnt cleaned up yet. ew, but nothing to worry
about. left the bathroom and got dressed in my room. after i got
dressed i went to the other bathroom in my house, the one that
filomena dn laura use, and used their hairdryer to obviously dry my
hair and it was after i was putting back the dryer that i noticed the
**** that was left in the toilet, something that definately no one in
out house would do. i started feeling a little uncomfortable and so i
grabbed the mop from out closet and lef the house, closing and locking
the door that no one had come back through while i was in the shower,
and i returned to raffael's place. after we had used the mop to cleanup the kitchen i told raffael about what i had seen in the house over
breakfast. the strange blood in the bathroom, the door wide open, the
**** left in the toilet.

 

[emyr]

Frank pointed this out awhile back on Perugia Shock, about the black man seen running, in a post entitled, "It Wasn't Rudy".

Wow, that's wild that another black guy was seen running and it wasn't Rudy.

It's also wild that the toilet bomb hoax happened almost exactly when Meredith was murdered at the place her cell phones would be thrown. (apparently it was a kid in Rome prank calling.)

The truth IS stranger than fiction.

 

[SMK]

Wow, that's wild that another black guy was seen running and it wasn't Rudy.

It's also wild that the toilet bomb hoax happened almost exactly when Meredith was murdered at the place her cell phones would be thrown. (apparently it was a kid in Rome prank calling.)

The truth IS stranger than fiction.

I had always wondered about that bomb hoax. Without it, the cell phones might have not been found for a long time.....I had thought there must be some connection......if so, it was a supernatural one....:waitasec:

 

[sherlockh]

It is of course a problem, and remains so, if one believes that they were not involved, and the scene was not staged. This was the "problem" I was referring to. If conversely they were involved, and did the staging, then no, it is no longer a problem, which window they chose to break.

The shower story, I am not getting....please explain....:waitasec:

you mean THIS shower story???

Yup, the whole morning story. She said she didn't notice the broken window. This would have been impossible with a break-in through the balcony or kitchen.

 

[wasnt_me]

Problem is, many claim it was Knox and Sollecito staging a break-in recklessly.

Well, I say it's RG planning his break-in, whether recklessly or not. So those two opinions cancel each other out and it's right back to the prosecution proving that the break-in was fake. In my opinion, they did not meet the burden of proof.

 

[Nova]

Why is that a problem? You can't expect the 'perfect' explanation for every little detail. Especially if multiple scenarios are possible. For the broken window it was either a 'not so smart' rushed decision, or a more considerate decision in relation to AK's silly shower story. With a staged break-in through the kitchen or balcony she could not have kept that one up. It would also depends on what time the window was broken (at night or only the next day when somebody could have seen her going to the cottage). Anyway, there is no way to be sure why exactly they chose that window. JMO.

I think the point is that we are repeatedly told FR's window was an unlikely choice for RG. The point is that it was also an unlikely choice for AK and RS.

At least with RG, Hendry claims that window provided better cover from passing cars.

 

[Nova]

Yup, the whole morning story. She said she didn't notice the broken window. This would have been impossible with a break-in through the balcony or kitchen.

Perhaps. But doesn't this make AK some sort of master criminal, that she would think of that detail hours in advance when the window was broken?

 

[wasnt_me]

Wow, that's wild that another black guy was seen running and it wasn't Rudy.

It's also wild that the toilet bomb hoax happened almost exactly when Meredith was murdered at the place her cell phones would be thrown. (apparently it was a kid in Rome prank calling.)

The truth IS stranger than fiction.

And don't forget the supposed text someone received, which said, "For me, Meredith dies today or tomorrow." (or something to that effect.)

 

[emyr]

*Snipped*. I am sure you leave swiping patterns if you try to clean a pool of fresh blood, but in this scenario we are talking of tiny amounts of dried blood. No swiping patters are necessary IMO although the luminol prints weren't exactly crystal clear either. I agree that in the diluted scenario the hallway prints might not even have needed any cleaning and they were simply not visible to begin with. That is an interesting suggestion. This would make AK's own scenario of bathmat surfing more probably. No hopping required

I always found the cleanup in the bathroom more evident with no blood on the floor and leftover traces on door, sink and bidet. Somebody mopped the floor of the bathroom, and quickly tried to scrub away the blood traces on the door, in sink and bidet. This IMO must have been done sometime after the murder when the blood had dried otherwise it would have been easy enough to just flush the blood away in the sink. I never understood why they didn't use luminol on the bathmat floor. The investigators messed up!

I thought they used that pink stuff, and the pink stuff showed nothing.

As for swiping patterns, it doesn't matter what condition the blood is in. Cleaning up means you are rubbing away the evidence. The rubbing away of the evidence causes it to spread on all the areas you rub. if you don't get it all up, then you leave swipes showing you tried to clean it up.

The luminol footprints were below the threshold for the other test (TMB? I forget the name now). That means the footprints are of a highly diluted nature, if they are in fact from blood.

Of course, the problem with highly diluted is it means with each step you should be diluting the substance further, in fact, now that I think of it, you shouldn't have that many footprints evident. You see Rudy's footprints tapering off in visibility as they go to the door. This is what typically happens when you have any substance on your foot. More and more of it gets used up.

Hmm. I wonder if there should only be 3 footprints with that amount of dilution.

 

[sherlockh]

Perhaps. But doesn't this make AK some sort of master criminal, that she would think of that detail hours in advance when the window was broken?

That is why I said it depends on when exactly the window was broken which IMO we can't know for sure. If she was cleaning around for an hour that morning and then they thought of staging a break-in as well the choice of window would be limited.

 

[wasnt_me]

Perhaps. But doesn't this make AK some sort of master criminal, that she would think of that detail hours in advance when the window was broken?

In my opinion, it's not logical. AK and RS were not required to make up a "shower story" at all. Say FR's door was open. Walking by it is enough for AK to have seen the break-in. But because RG closed the door, we apparently have now this irrational theory that the window choice is so that AK can tell her inane story about the bathroom.

Why can't AK say she saw the broken window, she saw the blood in the bathroom, she ran to RS's house?

If it was staged, why couldn't she and RS say they walked in the house together ONCE and saw the break-in? There is absolutely no requirement for her whole shower story in the "staging" scenerio. Again, we have cucumbers and pickles.

And if someone says she had to make up something on the fly because of the postal police, we know that is NOT true because AK and RS in fact called MK, Called FR, called RS's sister, called AK's mother, AND the police ALL BEFORE the PP even showed up.

Therefore, there is no panic to lie because the PP are there. I repeat, their calls to people started about noon. The PP arrived about 1pm. That's a whole hour difference. But they were telling the "shower story" starting at noon.

 

[wasnt_me]

That is why I said it depends on when exactly the window was broken which IMO we can't know for sure. If she was cleaning around for an hour that morning and then they thought of staging a break-in as well the choice of window would be limited.

So they murder MK at 930pm, hell even 1130pm, and instead of staging from 1130pm until dawn, they go home and rest and then return in the morning to do it some more?

That's not logical. They had all night to do everything--including roll MK up in the duvet and cart her off somewhere, so I'm not understanding why they'd let the night slip away without taking advantage of darkness to clean and stage.

If cleaning limited her "window options," there was always the front door. Why not get a hammer and bust the door knob if you "boxed" yourself in cleaning so well. Uhm, so well that boo is in the toilet, footprints, including their own (allegedly) are still in the bathrom and in the hallway, so well that blood is still everywhere in MK's room.

It's just not logical. The cleaning theory must be let go also. It just does not compute to me that AK and RS as murderers would leave the crime scene UNSECURED all night. and then return in the morning to clean up.

How did they know the boys from downstairs wouldn't return early? how did they know LM or FR would not return early? Why not dump Mk's body in the ravine or tunnels around that property and then clean up her room all night as if it had never happened?

I really, seriously don't understand the logic of a halfbaked cleaning job and a last minute choice to break a window after you've had a whole night to think about it.

And why not get on the computer, get on the phone, create a nighttime alibi, IF they saved the halfbaked cleaning job for the morning?

I'm confused.

 

[sherlockh]

I thought they used that pink stuff, and the pink stuff showed nothing.

As for swiping patterns, it doesn't matter what condition the blood is in. Cleaning up means you are rubbing away the evidence. The rubbing away of the evidence causes it to spread on all the areas you rub. if you don't get it all up, then you leave swipes showing you tried to clean it up.

The luminol footprints were below the threshold for the other test (TMB? I forget the name now). That means the footprints are of a highly diluted nature, if they are in fact from blood.

Of course, the problem with highly diluted is it means with each step you should be diluting the substance further, in fact, now that I think of it, you shouldn't have that many footprints evident. You see Rudy's footprints tapering off in visibility as they go to the door. This is what typically happens when you have any substance on your foot. More and more of it gets used up.

Hmm. I wonder if there should only be 3 footprints with that amount of dilution.

The whole purpose of luminol is to show cleaned up prints. If you 'have to' leave swiping patterns then you would always get messed up prints and then what is the point of the luminol in the first place? There is no 'rule' on any swiping patterns. Me thinks that was just your opinion where you imply that the investigators simply overlooked this 'rule'. Too much of a stretch IMO.