Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[Sonata]

See, one of the problems for me is that the rent money was taken. I don't see why that could be AK and RS. And I just think that the rent provides a motive.

 

[SMK]

See, one of the problems for me is that the rent money was taken. I don't see why that could be AK and RS. And I just think that the rent provides a motive.

So you think the motive was Guede's?

 

[Sonata]

So you think the motive was Guede's?

Yes.

The fact that money was stolen is an important one and shouldn't be overlooked. The fact that AK and RS seem to have had money available to them and no obvious reason to be desperate enough for a lump sum to steal leads to RG, who has obvious reasons for wanting a large sum of money quickly.

 

[SMK]

Yes.

The fact that money was stolen is an important one and shouldn't be overlooked. The fact that AK and RS seem to have had money available to them and no obvious reason to be desperate enough for a lump sum to steal leads to RG, who has obvious reasons for wanting a large sum of money quickly.

I would agree. Guede was a thief. It is in keeping with his prior behavior, that he would look to steal the bundle of collected rents. The fact that the story of Knox and Sollecito changed from a sex prank to a row over money shows that it was not a strong theory, the 3 on 1, to begin with.

 

[dgfred]

In the dark? While MK might well be dialing the cops?

RG didn't have your advantage of knowing exactly how high the window was.

And all he needed to do was land wrong on a rock or something and sprain his ankle to make sure he would be caught.

If he broke in thru the window... he definately would know how high it was.

If he broke in thru the window, he probably was a very talented climber... both up and down.

Limping home on a sprained ankle would not necessarily coincide with making sure he would be caught IMO. :waitasec:

 

[dgfred]

So AK and RS cleaned up their own prints while leaving those of RG? This is simply not a reasonable inference, IMO.

Was AK a print expert, too, and able to pick out her own prints and those of RS from those of RG?

Or did they take time while gang-raping and killing MK to keep track who made each foot and fingerprint?

Perhaps they could tell be prints on the bottoms of their shoes if there were any shoe prints of theirs.
Perhaps they were barefooted :innocent: .
Perhaps there were not many footprints or they knew exactly what they had touched in the room as far as fingerprints. Like the lamp :innocent: . Wonder why her prints were not on her own lamp?

Was AK a print expert, not sure... but if I said she was/wasn't someone likely would argue from the other view depending on if it showed any smidgen of her being innocent.

 

[SMK]

If he broke in thru the window... he definately would know how high it was.

If he broke in thru the window, he probably was a very talented climber... both up and down.

Limping home on a sprained ankle would not necessarily coincide with making sure he would be caught IMO. :waitasec:

If MK called the police, a sprained ankle would not be something Guede would want to deal with. In any case, she may have encountered him in the hallway.

 

[dgfred]

Please don't make me look for a link. But there have been other crimes where a burglar, interrupted by a screaming resident, panicked and lashed out.

Only if I don't have to look up some showing instant rage murders, unplanned murders, no-motive murders, or murders that escalated from a fight.

 

[Sonata]

[/I]

Only if I don't have to look up some showing instant rage murders, unplanned murders, no-motive murders, or murders that escalated from a fight.

Haha! Touche!

 

[dgfred]

The first of the month was approaching, and not hard to figure out that the rents were being collected. Filomena collected the rents and her room was tossed.

Why would AK not go into her 4K account for $$$? I agree there may be some truth in what Guede recounted...

But you were saying RG knew about the money. He is not going to guess that students left their rent money while they were away. The glass was on top of the clothes... that makes the tossing before the window was broken.
The other rooms were not tossed, does your scenario have him stealing the money before or after 'trapped' by Meredith?

Regarding her account: Perhaps Charlie W can repost AKs bank records around the murder that showed she deposited more money than she withdrew earlier... :waitasec: . It was an interesting subject on Michael's PMF for quite awhile. IIRC it was posted briefly on JREF.

Where was the ATM? Did she/they need some quick cash for a certain kind of purchase? Remember that AK had not been paid by Patrick, and was not going into work that night... was there a need for cash if RS's account was low? Who was the cocaine dealer that AK had in her phone records of calling both before and after the murder? Does that have any relevance?
Why would RG even mention a 'money fight' between AK and Meredith? How would he know this might be an issue that might be possible?

 

[SMK]

But you were saying RG knew about the money. He is not going to guess that students left their rent money while they were away. The glass was on top of the clothes... that makes the tossing before the window was broken.
The other rooms were not tossed, does your scenario have him stealing the money before or after 'trapped' by Meredith?

Regarding her account: Perhaps Charlie W can repost AKs bank records around the murder that showed she deposited more money than she withdrew earlier... :waitasec: . It was an interesting subject on Michael's PMF for quite awhile. IIRC it was posted briefly on JREF.

Where was the ATM? Did she/they need some quick cash for a certain kind of purchase? Remember that AK had not been paid by Patrick, and was not going into work that night... was there a need for cash if RS's account was low? Who was the cocaine dealer that AK had in her phone records of calling both before and after the murder? Does that have any relevance?
Why would RG even mention a 'money fight' between AK and Meredith? How would he know this might be an issue that might be possible?

Never heard of him. ATMs as you know are all over the place. Why was this not proposed and the sex game left out...:waitasec:

 

[dgfred]

I would agree. Guede was a thief. It is in keeping with his prior behavior, that he would look to steal the bundle of collected rents. The fact that the story of Knox and Sollecito changed from a sex prank to a row over money shows that it was not a strong theory, the 3 on 1, to begin with.

I am still not following the 'he would look to steal the bundle of collected rents' theory??? Wasn't only Meredith's rent money stolen? Had Filomena and Laura left their money already? AK hadn't given her's yet. IIRC there was testimony that Meredith kept her rent money in her drawer... not her purse.
AK would have known this IMO.

Well, actually there are things that do point to a sex prank/fight/assault...
and they wouldn't have known about the row over money until RG was questioned thru and thru.

I have an interesting 'new' non-drug deal scenario I will bring up later when I have more time.

 

[SMK]

Only if I don't have to look up some showing instant rage murders, unplanned murders, no-motive murders, or murders that escalated from a fight.

Still think this fits lone wolf Guede better than threesome:

Most murders are unplanned, committed with hardly any thought to escaping detection. Typically, these crimes start with a dispute, often over something trivial, between people (usually men) who know each other. Fueled by alcohol, the dispute quickly escalates to murderous intent. Include some bystanders so that neither party can back down honorably, even if he wanted to, add deadly weapons to the scenario, and someone winds up dead. The largest increase in murder in recent years has occurred among teenage boys, attributable to the ease with which they can obtain deadly weapons. An inner-city 15-year-old, feeling he has been "dissed" by another, borrows a handgun and returns to blow away his antagonist.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_n2588_v122/ai_15282521/

 

[dgfred]

Never heard of him. ATMs as you know are all over the place. Why was this not proposed and the sex game left out...:waitasec:

Because his number was found on AK's phone being called both before and after the murder... but he had no factor in or knowledge then of the actual murder I would guess. His arrest was much later for cocaine dealing, but originally his number was found on her phone that led to him being investigated. IIRC his initial trial proceedings were started earlier this year.

 

[Sonata]

Never heard of him. ATMs as you know are all over the place. Why was this not proposed and the sex game left out...:waitasec:

Nor have I really. I've heard it mentioned but I thought it was a rumour? I'm sure that claim was refuted and disproven at some point... anyone got a cite?

 

[SMK]

I am still not following the 'he would look to steal the bundle of collected rents' theory??? Wasn't only Meredith's rent money stolen? Had Filomena and Laura left their money already? AK hadn't given her's yet. IIRC there was testimony that Meredith kept her rent money in her drawer... not her purse.
AK would have known this IMO.

Well, actually there are things that do point to a sex prank/fight/assault...
and they wouldn't have known about the row over money until RG was questioned thru and thru.

I have an interesting 'new' non-drug deal scenario I will bring up later when I have more time.

:dance::dance:

 

[Sonata]

Because his number was found on AK's phone being called both before and after the murder... but he had no factor in or knowledge then of the actual murder I would guess. His arrest was much later for cocaine dealing, but originally his number was found on her phone that led to him being investigated. IIRC his initial trial proceedings were started earlier this year.

Interesting... I'd like to hear more about this. Do you know how soon before/after the murder he was called?

Of course, he could just be a friend. I know people who deal/have dealt but did not know them in that capacity.

 

[SMK]

Because his number was found on AK's phone being called both before and after the murder... but he had no factor in or knowledge then of the actual murder I would guess. His arrest was much later for cocaine dealing, but originally his number was found on her phone that led to him being investigated. IIRC his initial trial proceedings were started earlier this year.

You mean Shaky? Have a link? and i got you the murder link.....

 

[dgfred]

The fact that money was stolen is an important one and shouldn't be overlooked. The fact that AK and RS seem to have had money available to them and no obvious reason to be desperate enough for a lump sum to steal leads to RG, who has obvious reasons for wanting a large sum of money quickly.

But you are assuming RG had obvious reasons for wanting a large sum of money quickly and AK and RS didn't. There are other possibilities IMO.

Could RS's allowance/account have been low?
Could they have been trying to make a drug deal?
Could AK have taken the money, and RS knew nothing about it?
Could AK have taken the money for a fast deal, planning to put it back asap?
Maybe she couldn't get to the ATM quickly enough or didn't want to make another large withdrawal. If she/they were already plastered, her/their decision making might not have been as sharp as usual.
Could AK have taken the money as a prank/joke... never meaning to keep it?
Could AK have taken the money only as part of the staging... to make it look as if a thief had broken in and taken it?
Etc...

 

[SMK]

But you are assuming RG had obvious reasons for wanting a large sum of money quickly and AK and RS didn't. There are other possibilities IMO.

Could RS's allowance/account have been low?
Could they have been trying to make a drug deal?
Could AK have taken the money, and RS knew nothing about it?
Could AK have taken the money for a fast deal, planning to put it back asap?
Maybe she couldn't get to the ATM quickly enough or didn't want to make another large withdrawal. If she/they were already plastered, her/their decision making might not have been as sharp as usual.
Could AK have taken the money as a prank/joke... never meaning to keep it?
Could AK have taken the money only as part of the staging... to make it look as if a thief had broken in and taken it?
Etc...

I know, but that is a lot of questions.
Since RG was facing eviction, could he have overheard where the rent was kept, and gone to get it?:waitasec: