Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

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  • #141
otto said:
"It is lost on no one that the Knox family uses the media as messengers of their daughter’s innocence, and won’t talk to anyone who won’t toe the party line."

See, I don't see what is so terrible about that. Why would they waste time talking to anyone who wouldn't spread the message of innocence? They'd be pretty terrible parents to go talking to people who wanted to paint their daughter as the murderess.
 
  • #142
  • #143
The final outcome of this case is not as simple as it seems. Italy has a complicated judicial system, and the first trial, at which Knox was convicted, was the first in a three-step process. The second level, the current appellate trial, is then followed by the high court’s final ruling—no matter how this one ends. That is to say, the prosecution can also appeal the verdict if the duo are freed.

Over 50 percent of all cases in Italy are modified during the appellate process, so Knox has reason to hope—and reason to worry. Her Moldavian jailmate, known as the “black widow,” had her own murder conviction overturned on the second level, only to find herself reconvicted of the crime by the high court. At this stage, literally anything could happen.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...x-trail-awaits-verdict-on-october-3-2011.html
 
  • #144
i am so impatient.
 
  • #145
  • #146

what makes it worse is apparently i lost a day (or more aptly my mind) somewhere this week and i thought the verdict would be this morning. it wasn't until about 4 hours ago that i realized it wouldn't be today. LOL. i was checking twitter like a fool.
 
  • #147
It is one way or the other. If you accept the CCTV time is slow and think that it is Meredith then there is no way she could have called from the cottage, and the interruption is not an indication that Rudy was attacking her. Mr Hendry was wrong.

If you don't accept that the CCTV timer is slow then RS called the police after the 'police' arrived. So there is always 'something' with that argument.

The CCTV footage has always been annoying to me. Why didn't it catch Meredith arriving (I am not sure at all that the figure is Meredith, obviously neither was the court. I suppose the lightness of the jacket could be light refraction if the material was slightly reflective. But I doubt it). If it's Amanda, then why didn't it show Meredith arriving just minutes earlier?
Why don't they just show the whole unbroken tape so we can see for sure what time Knox came home that morning for sure? (I'd like to see when they walk by with the mop... Also, it would prove for a fact when Amanda left the cottage with the mop, took it to Raffaelle's and brought it back). Why can't we see Rudy fleeing? Does the camera just not pick up people walking past after all?

Just bugs me.

Edited to add: Is it possible that is Meredith's friend who walked her home?
 
  • #148
In Amanda Knox Appeals Trial, Italian Defendant Takes a Backseat


The good girl/bad girl dichotomy drove headlines across the globe, while Sollecito -- the mild mannered boyfriend -- was largely overlooked in a supporting role.
It's a role that his defense lawyer plays up. Sollecito is the son of a wealthy doctor from southern Italy who hired a crack legal team to defend his son. It's led by Giulia Bongiorno, who successfully defended former Italian Premier Giulio Andreotti on charges of mafia association.
"It's not by chance that Raffaele arrived in this trial as the boyfriend. Nothing connects Raffaele to the crime," Bongiorno said in her closing arguments last week. "With a girlfriend, you usually get a family. Raffaele got a murder."
She said the few pieces of evidence in the "Amanda-centric" trial relate to Knox, not to Sollecito.
"Nothing connects him to the crime," Bongiorno said.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/1...alian-defendant-takes-backseat/#ixzz1ZdOX4pQe
 
  • #149
The CCTV footage has always been annoying to me. Why didn't it catch Meredith arriving (I am not sure at all that the figure is Meredith, obviously neither was the court. I suppose the lightness of the jacket could be light refraction if the material was slightly reflective. But I doubt it). If it's Amanda, then why didn't it show Meredith arriving just minutes earlier?
Why don't they just show the whole unbroken tape so we can see for sure what time Knox came home that morning for sure? (I'd like to see when they walk by with the mop... Also, it would prove for a fact when Amanda left the cottage with the mop, took it to Raffaelle's and brought it back). Why can't we see Rudy fleeing? Does the camera just not pick up people walking past after all?

Just bugs me.

Edited to add: Is it possible that is Meredith's friend who walked her home?

The camera doesn't run all the time, it's triggered by movement in the parking lot exit.

Meredith and Sophie parted company near Sophie's home. As far as we know, Meredith was alone for the rest of her walk back to the cottage.
 
  • #150
The 20/20 special is quite good. Nice clip of Frank Sfarzo talking and walking with Vargas

.http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD55145930/2020-930-amanda-knox-appeal

At the end of this video, the interviewer asks Mignini why would he accuse AK and RS of satanic sex game? He says he never did.
Wrong.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4968044.ece

Italian prosecutors yesterday accused Amanda Knox of stabbing to death the Leeds Univeristy exchange student Meredith Kercher in a satanic ritual with the complicity of her former boyfriend and an Ivory Coast drifter.

At a committal hearing in the Umbrian town of Perugia, prosecutors Giuliano Mignini and Manuela Comodi gave their most detailed reconstruction of the sexual attack on and murder of Kercher, 21, on the night of November 1 last year.

They alleged the Seattle-born Knox had stabbed Kercher in the throat while Rudy Guede, of the Ivory Coast, strangled her and Italian student Raffaele Sollecito held her. The three allegedly killed Kercher because she did not want to take part in “a perverse game of group sex”. All three deny murder.

The prosecutors “laid out a scenario like from some crime novel”, Sollecito’s lawyer Luca Maori said. He added that they “alleged it was some kind of satanic rite, with Amanda allegedly first touching Meredith with the point of a knife, then slitting her throat, while Sollecito held her by the shoulders, from behind, Guede held her by an arm” and tried to sexually assault her.
 
  • #151
The camera doesn't run all the time, it's triggered by movement in the parking lot exit.

Meredith and Sophie parted company near Sophie's home. As far as we know, Meredith was alone for the rest of her walk back to the cottage.

I think I remember us discussing the fact that a guy wearing an unusual jacket was captured on the TV in the time before Meredith supposedly arrived. The jacket was expensive and atypical and Rudy stated he had that jacket but it was purchased for him after the murder. Which is weird, right? Am I remembering that correctly?

Another thing I was just thinking of: maybe the toilet bomb hoax wasn't so oddly coincidental after all. Maybe Rudy fled, racing along the road to get away, and he runs into, of all people, the police. They are there investigating the toilet bomb hoax. He then dumps anything on him that he thinks would connect him to the murder.
 
  • #152
Last thoughts about Rudy:

His right hand had a cut. He said he got the cut from defending himself against the knife welding man who killed Meredith. It seems most likely he got the cut from the broken glass from the burglary. More indications that the burglary wasn't staged.

Also, the day of his arrest, he stated that Meredith came in and opened a drawer beside her bed, and discovered her money was stolen. So, he knows that there was money in the drawer beside her bed. And he knows it was stolen.

His DNA was also found on her purse. So he not only knows about the money from her drawer, but he also took additional items from her purse. If the burglary was staged after he left, how would he know where the money was?

The answer seems most likely that he stole the money.

How would he have had the opportunity to steal both items moments after a spontaneous murder? How unlikely is it that he just happened to rob Meredith BEFORE a spontatneous murder committed by Amanda and Raffaelle?
 
  • #153
  • #154
I posted this on JREF.

<modsnip>?

If you think that AK and RS are guilty support your conclusion with actual facts as <modsnip>.

None of the basic foundations of actually proving the case have ever been satisfactorily addressed by the prosecution.

Perhaps some of the <modsnip> can start with answering the basic question in proving a defendant's guilt and address these fundamental questions?

The facts as best as I can gather from this case.

Meredith Kercher was killed sometime between 21:00-23:59 on Nov. 1, 2007. RG's DNA should not have been located on her body.


Connection between the killers?

The prosecution never supplied any connection between RG and AK other than a few inconsequential exchanges of salutations and perhaps some small talk. The prosecution failed to provide any evidence at all that RG and RS have ever met outside of court proceedings.

I have never read of a case where three people have come together without a basis or foundation of a minimal acquaintanceship (never mind the limited ability to communicate due to Amanda's weak native language skills at the time) and kill a person. I cannot rule out the possibility of this phenomena happening, but the prosecution never gave any proof of its existence in the form of anything such as expert's testimony, etc.


Motive?

The prosecution alleged at least five different motives in the original case.

1. Sex game gone bad
2. Drugs
3. Robbery
4. Hatred/Jealousy towards MK by AK
5. AK is a sociopathic killer.

Which would be fine if they had bothered to prove just one of those theories.

Let's look at the the last one just for fun, since that seems to be Mignini's M.O. for prosecuting and gathering facts. If AK were a sociopath, there would be a history of violence, or at the very least serious anti-social behavior in her past. Fights and criminal charges would suffice to show a pattern. At the very least, there should be a record of educational (teachers/administrators) or psychological evaluations that raised red flags. The prosecution provided not one shred of evidence supporting this assertation.

Opportunity?

The prosecution alleges the crime occurred around 23:00-23:30 which contradicts Mr. Curatolo's testimony (AK and RS would be otherwise occupied) putting the two at the cottage on the night in question, if he is not already disqualified as a credible witness by his heroin usage and his confusion over the night in question (in regards to non-existent disco busses running on the night in question).

The more likely time of death is probably around 21:00-21:30 due to the digestive process found on the victim, given the testimony of her friends she had her last meal, and the known facts of her last hours.

The prosecution never supplied any connection between RG and AK other than a few inconsequential exchanges of salutations and perhaps some small talk. The prosecution failed to provide any evidence that RG and RS have ever met outside of court proceedings.

The ony credible witness puts AK and RS at RS's place at 20:45. So, the only thing we know for reasonable certainty, if we disregard AK and RS, is that the couple were outside the cottage on the night in question with RG nowhere in sight.

In Conclusion

For the <modsnip>, here is a thought experiment. Imagine some rich ***** is accused of murdering her husband. We all know she did it. The prosecution claims the motive was money, she was having an affair, and she hired a close friend and a limited acquaintance to kill her husband. Case closed.

Except, they never provide any evidence of any adultery, or any financial incentive. The two people she supposedly hired have no history of murder for hire. There is no evidence of any conversations, statements, or payment that would implicate her or one of the alleged accomplices. The murder weapon is never located. One of her alleged hit men was a small time burglar whose DNA was located at the scene of the crime. The accused has no record. Finally, throughout the trial the prosecution and police continually are found to be guilty of lying and misconduct.

What is more likely the accused with no history of violent acts or a criminal record orchestrated a murder or was even involved? Or the person with history of breaking and entering with a knife panicked and escalated his criminal behavior?

If this crime happened the way the prosecution claims, then it was a highly improbable occurence and they need to meet a high burden of proof to prove their case. Unfortunately, the prosecution never bothered to meet even the minimum level.

Which is why I find the whole affair so nauseatingly frustrating. Barbie Nadeau's latest "guilty or innocent-it's complicated" <modsnip> has sent me over the edge. No, it's not too complicated, if you can ever bother to think critically for yourself and not hide behind the safety of the crowd. Not to mention how she tries to minimize her involvement in creating this circus. Nadeau is the Judith Miller of this sordid affair. It takes stenographers like them and the masses blind faith acceptance of their dictation to create these sorts of clusterf@*#$. Valerie Plame got pilloried while Scooter Libby got fast tracked and his sentence suspended on his way to an eventual presidential commutation, while Bush, Cheney et al got away scot-free. In this case, Amanda Knox has been demonized as Rudy Guede has gotten his sentence continually reduced, while Giuliano Mignini, et al have so far gotten away scot-free.
 
  • #155
So this is the jury, looks mainly female:

rsz_jury.png
 
  • #156
<modsnip>

Saw this post on the other forum, and will give it here what I could not there::clap::clap::clap:
 
  • #157
So 4 pm or later, GMT, which is noon or later New York time:

DanielePinto Daniele Pinto
Verdict for #MeredithKercher murder appeal expected late on 03 Oct '11: Anytime after 1600 GMT, but could go into the night.
 
  • #158
Andrea Vogt
Culinary sources in Perugia say a catering service is organizing lunch & dinner Monday for Amanda Knox jury. Long deliberations?
:furious:
 
  • #159
Some talk over at JREF, which I am in agreement with, about the looks of this jury, the polls being taken, the deliberation times Hellman is planning (with catered lunch AND dinner), and anti-Knox pieces appearing in Italian papers and media, not good omens::sick:

<modsnip>http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7634708#post7634708
 
  • #160
otto said:
"It is lost on no one that the Knox family uses the media as messengers of their daughter&#8217;s innocence, and won&#8217;t talk to anyone who won&#8217;t toe the party line."

See, I don't see what is so terrible about that. Why would they waste time talking to anyone who wouldn't spread the message of innocence? They'd be pretty terrible parents to go talking to people who wanted to paint their daughter as the murderess.


I guess ... if you're okay with the convicted murderer or her family dictating what the public should know ... okay.
 
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