Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[darnudes]

I found the youtube vids Gitana, do you want me to post here or just msg you with them? Not too sure if I should put them up or not.

 

[sherlockh]

It's interesting, now that all the physical evidence has been debunked, thwarted, called into question, and impeached, that the only thing left are the imagined behaviors and imagined statements of AK. Rumors and more rumors and stories, and gossip...that's it. That's the only thing left to try and use to suggest AK committed this murder. It's pitiful that a corrupt prosecutor and exaggerated police claims are what is clung to in order to make the continued claim of AK's guilt.

All that's left is coerced police interrogation with no recordings made. How convenient that the police didn't bother to record anything.

The beliefs cannot be changed with logic because they defy all logic. The evidence doesn't support the wild fallacies made up by Mignini. The evidence only shows one killer of MK. But beliefs are beliefs and they remain regardless of fact.

Now every other behavior of Amanda will be insinuated and used to try and show her to be an evil person, when she was a typical kind of flaky 20 yr old college student. She was not just acquitted of a murder. She was declared innocent.

People don't know AK, have never met AK, but that won't stop them from thinking they do and imagining every evil deed their mind can conjure. Small minds, small beliefs, no evidence, indeed.

Coercion has been ruled out and AK was sentenced to 3 years in jail. That is not a minor sentence. She is a criminal. If you accept the acquittal for the murder charge then why not the conviction for her wrongful accusation of an innocent person? Most of the evidence was not debunked. It was apparently not enough to convict them. This can be seen as weak as only 2 pieces of evidence were reviewed.

I once made a 'joke' that they would be acquitted and the Supreme Court would send the case back for a full re-trial just for entertainment purposes. I think this will become reality. The show must go on. JMO.

 

[wasnt_me]

The courts are right outside her school, it is virtually impossible for her to walk home without walking past the courts.

I don't know that it's impossible to not walk by the courts each time. Even if it is, are you saying RG was out there playing basketball everyday, all day, all the time, so she saw him each time she passed? And when she walked by there, she was always 100% looking at the players? Paying attention to the game, and who was on the court? Are you saying that AK never had a divergent schedule that would cause her not to walk by these courts? Such going to work, getting something to eat, going to see another friend, etc and so on?

I don't mean to debate about it, but I know that I can walk by somewhere every single day and that does not mean I'm paying attention to whose over there or what they are doing. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop and social or get to "know" any of the people over there where i'm walking. Heck, I can't even identify the neighbors on my street and they wave to me like they know me. So if they committed a crime, the police would probably find it hard to believe I don't know them and would say "But you live on their street!" and I'd just be shrugging, dude.

Anyways, all I'm saying is you have to be careful stringing together stuff like this because one thing does not necessarily mean the other conclusion you want it to mean. You just gotta think, AK ain't the only person walking by that court. could every single person walking by it daily say they "know" RG?

If AK were the dead one and MK were on trial, would you believe MK if she said she didn't know RG given that her BF was friends with him?

Theorizing is good, but we do not know how any elements of her statement emerged. So we can't really pick and choose the veracity of the statements.

In RG's Skype call, we can. The reason we can is because he did not know he was being taped. He was not under any police pressure, and he believed he was confiding in a friend. So because of those things and evidence that coincides with some of his statements, i can dissect his lies.

There is no evidence coinciding with AK meeting RG at the basketball court. There is no evidence of AK taking RG home. You're only guessing. Now when RG says he arrived to MK's house early and no one is home, that's a fact. When he says MK arrived at 9pm, that's a fact. Her friend confirms it and so does the CCTV camera. When he says she died about 930, that lines up with the stomach contents. then he claims to have "helped" and left. that coincides with the strange happenings on her call phone at 950pm or so.

So until and unless we get other pieces of the puzzle to fit with AK's police statement Nov 5th, it's a bunch of bull.

 

[gitana1]

Does anyone know if the other 2 young ladies who lived in the flat with Meredith and Amanda [ sorry -- I can't remember their names right now ] have made any statements ?

I am curious ... and I sure would like to know what they have to say about today's decision.

TIA !

Me too!

Here's one of Amanda's American attorneys reacting to the verdict: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...amera-amanda-knox-attorney-reacts-to-verdict/ He seemed very emotional to me (for an attorney, ya gotta keep your cool when wearing the suit!).

Here's an article about reaction from her family and friends: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-knox-seattle-20111004,0,7417184.story

From the article:

Knox maintained a close clutch of friends from the Jesuit high school she attended, Seattle Preparatory School, where she played soccer and joined school theater productions. She was also a popular student at the University of Washington, where she majored in German and Italian studies before leaving, at the age of 19, to study in Perugia, Italy.

People who knew her in Seattle kept saying Knox bore no resemblance to the flirtatious, hard-partying girl portrayed during the trial.

"We knew there was no way she could have done this," said John Lange, Knox's drama teacher at Seattle Prep. "She was sweet. She never did anything to harm anybody else. She was not conniving. She was not mean-spirited." His voice breaking, he pulled off his glasses and wiped back tears...

After the cheers and shouting quieted down, several supporters briefly circled for a prayer. It was, they said, for Kercher.

"We prayed for Meredith because only she knew — only she knew — and she can't talk to us," Ralph said. Many felt that Kercher's spirit spoke to the jury, she said.

 

[wasnt_me]

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Night all!

 

[Allusonz]

Sorry don't agree with this at all - I don't believe the evidence has been debunked - I'm just not willing to do a re-hash of all the DNA evidence again. Other people can go back and forward all they like on the subject, I just find it pointless.

I'm perfectly happy to go back on my belief if/when Amanda Knox decides to clear up all the lies she has told, until then I still believe that she was there and had something to do with it.

From the experts report

Some samples (A-E-F-H-I) and in particular sample “H”, show granules with a characteristic circular/hexagonal morphology and a radial central structure. A more detailed microscopic study, along with a review of the data present in the literature, allowed it to be determined that the structures in question are attributable to starch granules: therefore material of a vegetable nature.
Taking note that no DNA suitable for further laboratory investigations (amplification, electrophoresis) was present either on the swabs [tamponature] (A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I) taken from Exhibit 36 (knife) or on those (L-M) taken from Exhibit 165B (hooks of the bra), the experts verbally informed the consultants of the parties that they would proceed to a detailed examination of the Technical Report drawn up by the Scientific Police, as according to the task formulated during the assignment hearing

http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/c...conclusions-1/

 

[mdana]

ok I googled, passport good for a decade for age 16 and up. your passport before age 16 expires AT age 16 (son had to renew his last year) so...if she travelled to italy in 07 her passport is NOT expired.

The Right to Travel Abroad

Contrary to what many people believe, convicted felons are not barred from obtaining a passport in the United States. A passport is intended to be a document that establishes a person's identity and status as a citizen of the country which issued the passport. However, convicted felons often face severe restrictions in traveling abroad because many countries impose visa requirements on individuals with criminal records. Unlike a passport, a visa is seen as a privilege, and the issuing country has the right to refuse entry to any person seen as a threat or as unsuitable, including convicted felons.

Read more: What Rights Do Convicted Felons Lose? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5187861_rights-do-convicted-felons-lose_.html#ixzz1ZmMvoO1V

It may have already been answered, but I think it can be revoked when convicted of a felony. Not sure how that worked, since I am unsure how her original conviction counts in the Italian legal system, as a conviction or she was still in the process of possibly being convicted. So it may have been revoked before the judgment of acquital.

 

[Allusonz]

Sorry don't agree with this at all - I don't believe the evidence has been debunked - I'm just not willing to do a re-hash of all the DNA evidence again. Other people can go back and forward all they like on the subject, I just find it pointless.

I'm perfectly happy to go back on my belief if/when Amanda Knox decides to clear up all the lies she has told, until then I still believe that she was there and had something to do with it.

Regarding Stephanoni's analysis which they were mandated to review (note where they caught Stephanoni in her lies)

Both B & C were both TOO LOW but Stephanoni decided that sample B had something and over-rode the machine settings which perplexes the consultants as to why it was done in the first place and secondly why not do the same to sample C

"On the other hand, it is not possible to comprehend the criteria adopted in the assessment of the positive quantification result for sample B and the negative result for sample C, given that the same result, “too low”, was obtained for both samples: that is, a value which must be considered not only below the sensitivity threshold of the Fluorimeter indicated by the manual (DNA concentrations equal to 0.2 ng/μl), but below 0.08 ng/μl, a value which the Fluorimeter detected for sample A.

Nor is it comprehensible, considering the negative results on sample B, what Dr. Stefanoni reported during the GUP questioning (page 178) where she stated that the DNA in sample B, quantified with Real Time PCR (it is recalled that such quantification as confirmed during the hearing was never carried out or, at least, no documentation was provided to support this claim), was “in the order of some hundreds of picograms”, a value which does not appear in any of the documents provided to us (SAL, Fluorimeter report, Real Time report, RTIGF). "

http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/c...cation-of-dna/

 

[gitana1]

I found the youtube vids Gitana, do you want me to post here or just msg you with them? Not too sure if I should put them up or not.

Go for it, friend. Just remember, although I don't agree with you, and obviously many on here don't, you are entitled to your opinion. You have reasons for it and that's what websleuths is for- to express your opinion. I admire your courage in sticking with an unpopular opinion. Don't allow anyone to shout you down.

Emotions are high but it's so much nicer when we can have an intelligent debate politely. And you have been polite, darnudes.

 

[Steft50]

Sorry don't agree with this at all - I don't believe the evidence has been debunked - I'm just not willing to do a re-hash of all the DNA evidence again. Other people can go back and forward all they like on the subject, I just find it pointless.

I'm perfectly happy to go back on my belief if/when Amanda Knox decides to clear up all the lies she has told, until then I still believe that she was there and had something to do with it.

It's really sad that you don't hold the police, the convicted criminal prosecutor, the head of the forensic team and the civil lawyers to the same standards you seem to want to hold AK too concerning lies.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

So if the family missed red flags so did her entire community - her school, her soccer coaches, her University, her friends- everyone who ever met Amanda prior to these murders missed the red flags.. and none have come forward to say "you know I knew she was crazy"

There were no red flags because Amanda isn't Casey Anthony.

Just a reminder- AK & RS were not acquitted on bad evidence collection, contamination the were acquitted because they did not commit the crime- that was the Jury's verdict.

Can someone explain to me why she is guilty because she lied about he boss in her "confession" but the "confession" is to be believed 100% ?

BBM: Just wanted to post this and I hope I do not get off topic :

"Red Flags" can -- and ARE often missed by family members and friends because of their "unconditional love" for that person ... and sometimes, some "Red Flags" are just blatantly ignored.

I base "My Opinion" on a recent personal experience where I did miss some "Red Flags" of family members, and it is because of "unconditional love" and something that you truly do NOT want to believe about your loved ones ...

It does happen ... You try and try not to believe the "worst" of a person -- especially family and friends ... but you just cannot "ignore" the "obvious" ...

Most people do NOT want to "admit" or even "consider" that there is something that is "questionable" about a loved one's prior "behaviors" or a possible "character flaw" etc ...

no one is "perfect" and we all have flaws and we all make mistakes ...

But IMO "Red Flags", no matter how small or large, are just that ... Red Flags !

MOO ...

 

[Steft50]

There is as well currently another case virtually the same to this going on in Italy the Scazzi case. As well there have been a number of geologists charged for not predicting an earthquake in time.

I am hoping that some good will come of what was exposed during this case.

Edited by me and OT

Is there a thread somewhere concerning this case? I've heard about it but know nothing of the details. Thanks!

 

[mdana]

The "politicos" from the US State Department would contact the "Heads of State" in Italy ... and from there, the "politics" "trickles down" to the Judges, etc. in the Italian System ...

Good Grief ... they even got Donald Trump :sick: on board with the "Free Amanda campaign" ...

I feel for Meredith and her Family ... they did NOT deserve this !

MOO

If you think Donald Trump has any influence in Italy, I am flabbergasted. He is a television personality masquerading as a businessman/politician.

 

[darnudes]

I don't know that it's impossible to not walk by the courts each time. Even if it is, are you saying RG was out there playing basketball everyday, all day, all the time, so she saw him each time she passed?.

It is impossible, she has to walk past the courts or through the courts, unless she is in a totally different part of the city.

I'm saying he played there a lot - verified.
She walked past them all the time - verified.
She knew him - verified.
He knew her - verified.
He stated she talked to him at the courts, they partied, they smoked pot along with the boys downstairs - his statement, take it or leave it - but confirmed by Amanda herself re the party at the house.

All I am showing is that there was a relationship there which has been confirmed - if people don't want to believe it that is up to them. Pretty weird not to believe in the person you think is innocent when they tell you themselves that they indeed do know Rudy.

 

[gitana1]

It is impossible, she has to walk past the courts or through the courts, unless she is in a totally different part of the city.

I'm saying he played there a lot - verified.
She walked past them all the time - verified.
She knew him - verified.
He knew her - verified.
He stated she talked to him at the courts, they partied, they smoked pot along with the boys downstairs - his statement, take it or leave it - but confirmed by Amanda herself re the party at the house.

All I am showing is that there was a relationship there which has been confirmed - if people don't want to believe it that is up to them. Pretty weird not to believe in the person you think is innocent when they tell you themselves that they indeed do know Rudy.

Guys, I said repeatedly that there was no evidence that Knox knew or even had met Guede. Darnudes was showing me that I was incorrect. That's all.

 

[Steft50]

Coercion has been ruled out and AK was sentenced to 3 years in jail. That is not a minor sentence. She is a criminal. If you accept the acquittal for the murder charge then why not the conviction for her wrongful accusation of an innocent person? Most of the evidence was not debunked. It was apparently not enough to convict them. This can be seen as weak as only 2 pieces of evidence were reviewed.

I once made a 'joke' that they would be acquitted and the Supreme Court would send the case back for a full re-trial just for entertainment purposes. I think this will become reality. The show must go on. JMO.

BBM. That is actually not accurate. The Judge read they were aquitted of the murder charges because they didn't commit the crime. The Judge also read that the "staged breakin" never happened. It's been posted on here several times. The decision is reported to be unanimous among the jurors and the judges.

 

[Intermezzo]

OMG - was just listening to JVM who thinks that the prosecutor is a crazy so and so with crazy 'satanic theories' LMAO

Wasn't a crazy satanic theory why the WM3 were found guilty?

Just loving the hypocritical double standards of some American commentators - I mean really you just have to laugh at this BS - and one reason why some American journos are laughed at.

In regards to the Prosecutor, Mignini, and crazy satanic theories... he has used that theory before.

In 2002 Guliano Mignini re-opened the unsolved murder case known as the Monster of Florence.
His theory or claim was that the murders were the work of a satanic sect, dating back to the Middle Ages.

Mignini accused many people of the murders including an American author (the Monster of Florence book) and his partner, an Italian journalist of being the murderers and members of the satanic sect.

The Prosecutor, Mignini, was indicted with Prosecutorial misconduct and in 2010 he was convicted of abuse of power in the Monster of Florence case.
I think it had to do with illegal wiretapping.

 

[mdana]

There is no comparison to the murder of Meredith Kercher and Caylee Anthony? Amanda nor Raffaele committed murder. They were acquitted because there was no evidence they were at the crime scene. Casey Anthony did commit murder. The system clearly failed. See.. there is a difference. If Amanda is going to be dragged through the mud, why is Raffaele not dragged as well?

At some point I will catch up with this thread...Just not sure if it will be this morning.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but in terms of the similarity between CA and AK, here is an earlier post that tried to link Scott Petersen, CA, and AK.

Huh? IMO, character assassination and a high media profile are the only common factors. You are comparing a woman accused of murdering her child with a plausible motive, a man murdering his pregnant wife with a plausible motive, and a woman murdering her roomate of one month with no discernable motive after four years of a desperate LE and prosecution throwing everything including the kitchen sink at her. There was no physical evidence of anyone else involved in the CA and SP cases, while RG is implicated in this case. There was no conspiracy in those other two cases, while we are expected to believe their was an immediate one created between three people not fluent in any single language and two have never been proven to have met outside of a courtroom.

Sorry, I don't see it...

 

[Allusonz]

BBM: Just wanted to post this and I hope I do not get off topic :

"Red Flags" can -- and ARE often missed by family members and friends because of their "unconditional love" for that person ... and sometimes, some "Red Flags" are just blatantly ignored.

I base "My Opinion" on a recent personal experience where I did miss some "Red Flags" of family members, and it is because of "unconditional love" and something that you truly do NOT want to believe about your loved ones ...

It does happen ... You try and try not to believe the "worst" of a person -- especially family and friends ... but you just cannot "ignore" the "obvious" ...

Most people do NOT want to "admit" or even "consider" that there is something that is "questionable" about a loved one's prior "behaviors" or a possible "character flaw" etc ...

no one is "perfect" and we all have flaws and we all make mistakes ...

But IMO "Red Flags", no matter how small or large, are just that ... Red Flags !

MOO ...

I understand what you are stating. I still would think that after 4 years someone would of come forward and stated something to the effect that in hindsight etc., I realize this. It has not happened.

As well if you are going to hold AK to this standard you must hold everyone to that standard. Yet at every twist and turn I took the red flags were being raised by the Postal Police, the prosecutor, the civil lawyers, the investigation et al. Then they lied about it under oath. Stephanoni lied about not testing for blood, stating inaccurate test results etc. The Postal Police lied about not going into the room. The list is very long and many will add to this list.

My question is when do you say hold it, take a step back, and revisit ones perception?

 

[darnudes]

It's really sad that you don't hold the police, the convicted criminal prosecutor, the head of the forensic team and the civil lawyers to the same standards you seem to want to hold AK too concerning lies.

It's not about that - they are not the defendants in this crime. All Amanda had to do at the beginning was tell the truth, she didn't and hasn't done to this day.

I'm not willing to get into a discussion about things where my knowledge base is low so I'm not going to talk about any of the alleged lies from the prosecutor/forensics etc.

Should I start calling Amanda, a convicted felon? Don't think so and I think it is disrepectful to attribute those names to the prosecutor.