Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

[Allusonz]

Well, to be clear, he's not missing his second toe, it's just raised and the bathmat print doesn't show a second toe either. I believe the prosecution argued that the blotch next to the big toe was part of his unusual "hammerhead" big toe, which is still silly because it doesn't match his print either way. That it took the method of a shyster like Louise Robbins to obfuscate the prints to look like RS's is egregious.

correct he is unable to step on it thus it leaves a wide gap between the big toe and 3rd toe which does not explain why the bath mat tuff marks can be seen between the the first and 2nd digit

 

[trillian]

The Judges/Jurors believed the print on the mat to be RS's. Why would he clean up the blood and prints around the bathmat print... but leave so much other evidence of himself in the cottage? Why would he lock Meredith's door, and how would he with his prints leading straight down the hallway? A reverse behind the back lock?

Filomena gave permission and took responsibility with breaking the door. From the Judge's report it seemed everyone was worried about the locked door, except AK at that particular time.

IIRC once RS and AK got out of the car, they checked the car for evidence because of how suspicious the two were acting.

Should there have to be soooo many excuses for the accused in any case?

I call 'oystering'.

What is the evidence that he cleaned up anything in the bathroom besides himself? If he stepped on a bloody tshirt for example, there would be no other prints since he washed himself right there at the sink and picked up the shirt and left the room. In fact there are blood smudges on that mat outside the footprint consistent with just such a scenario.

AK was worried enough to call Filomena and worried enough to be waiting outside for the police to get there. I bet she didnt have much to add to the conversation once they arrived because she probably didnt understand half of what they were saying. It was natural to let Filomena handle talking to them. She spoke Italian.

I assumed MK had one of those locks you turn or press a button and just shut the door and leave. Do you have information on the type of door lock she had?

 

[Allusonz]

*AK only smoked a little bit of pot and didn't do cocaine at all.
*RS did not have a cocaine 'problem'.
*AK's contact with a cocaine dealer both before and just after the murder is not relevant to the murder case.

I personally have seen no testimony whatsoever that either RS or AK where on cocaine.

I do understand where you are going with this though as there has since been found to be a telephone number on her phone who has subsequently been convicted for dealing drugs. That does NOT MEAN AK or RS were doing cocaine

As well from a business persepective if i did happen to be in the business of dealing drugs i highly doubt i would limit myself to just ONE drug as from a profitability standpoint that would make no sense

Let me remind you though that the person convicted of this was a WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION, which now makes me question even more the validity of this particular witness's testimony

 

[Allusonz]

*The bare footprints found in luminal can not be AK's or RS's.
*The luminal prints were not in blood just outside of a bloody crime scene.

The prosecution said in the trial that these footprints were made in blood. As with all of the footprints shown in blue, these footprints were never proven to be made in blood. As I stated on page one, luminol is an investigative tool that can help investigators find blood that has been cleaned up. When applied, luminol glows for a few seconds when it reacts with blood. Luminol also reacts with many other things. Luminol reacts with various household cleaners, different types of soil, rust in tap water, and many other substances. When luminol glows, investigators can pinpoint the area and then test to see if the stain does indeed consist of blood. Stefanoni claimed these stains were never tested for blood, however in July 2009, Stefanoni's notes confirmed the stains were tested with tetramethylbenzidine which is extremely sensitive for blood. All of the stains detected with luminol tested negative for blood.
The footprints were also swabbed and tested for DNA. All of the footprints tested negative for Meredith's DNA.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-02.html

 

[Allusonz]

I believe this bears repeating again

"Good science doesn't change when it crosses international borders."

 

[Allusonz]

I forgot this part of GM's conviction

The bench ruled that he and Michele Giuttari, a detective-turned-thriller writer, had used their powers to persecute people they regarded as their enemies: tapping their phones, interrogating them, putting them under investigation without any evidence against them and even getting them jailed, for personal reasons

the court said, were guilty of "almost unheard of" criminal activity, carrying out investigations "in no way related ... to their proper competence", launching criminal cases with no evidence, ordering phone taps with "quite different ends" from those cited when the taps were authorised, taps that were made "for reasons of retaliation ... against people towards whom they had reasons for hostility"

Even though all the Monster's victims were shot with the same gun, Mignini told a court that it wasn't the work of a single serial killer. Rather, Mignini described an elaborate conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers, who made up a secret society behind the Monster killings.

Mignini indicted the 20 people and charged them with the concealment of Narducci's murder, and laid out a hard-to-follow plot that included body doubles and featured Narducci's body being swapped - not once, but twice!

If all of this sounds hard to believe, it is. Tuesday, in a preliminary hearing, Perugia Judge Paolo Micheli threw out the case against the 20. The judge found there was no solid evidence to back up Mignini's claim that Narducci was murdered, let alone the victim of a satanic sect

Late Tuesday evening, when the 20 defendants were freed of all charges, they celebrated in front of the courthouse, opening bottles of champagne

a court in Florence said Mignini was guilty of abusing the considerable powers of his office

 

[otto]

Dgfred, thank you so much for your brilliant post. That one deserves an applause ... thank you for taking the time to recap all the explanations and debates that surround each piece of evidence. Naturally, since each piece of evidence can be examined in isolation and explained one way or another, even if it means Amanda eating dinner three times in one evening, Raffaele and Amanda must be innocent, and Rudy must be guilty.

 

[Malkmus]

Wouldn't RG's defense be able to use the same tactics of saying his dna/prints were contaminated, wrong, or planted also? Why is testing and evidence of his accepted, but not the other two?

Why would anyone argue against any of the DNA/fingerprint evidence for Rudy? He admitted to being there the during the murder.

They were recorded once they were suspects instead of witnesses. Of course they were 'played' against one another. When two persons are using the same alibi and found at the crime scene it is common practice IMO.

There is no recording of Amanda's interrogation once she was made a suspect. There might be of Raffaele, but no one has heard it, and it's never been mentioned.

Cell records show the contact with Patrick was away from RS's home nearer the center square.

What's the point here? She says she noticed the text once she was at Raf's and it has no bearing on the events of that night.

The cocaine dealer has not gone to trial yet, only the lawyer's name is known.
Nobody around or near AK will divulge his name. If he is just a friend... why not??? Why was she calling him both before and in the few days before the murder? If he was such a good friend maybe he should have testified in her defense.

Nobody's coming out and revealing who the guy was because no one cares who he was. He was just a guy who had her phone number, and unless it somehow becomes part of the appeals trial I wouldn't expect anyone to care to answer.

I suggest reading the daily mail interviews with Patrick in Nov 2007 to see just how 'cordial' AK was at work and with Patrick. Motive doesn't need to be proven, it only shows state of mind at the time of Meredith's murder. Patrick claimed that AK 'stormed off' when told about Meredith working at the bar.

And I suggest reading Nicky's posts over on PMF where she clarifies that she's watched Patrick's subsequent TV interviews where he retracts those statements. Nicky is an Italian and strong believer in Amanda and Raf's guilt so no reason not to trust her.

Nobody said anything about one 'hating' the other.

Meredith's blood dna was in the mixture in the bathroom with AK's blood. Wish we did know where AK's blood came from... might clear up alot of things.
Some have speculated it was from an infected ear-ring hole or a ear-ring getting torn out in a struggle. AK's dna was mixed with Meredith's blood in other spots and in Filomena's room... but that is explained away by her living there.

I think you answered your own question about where Amanda's blood came from. In addition, the appeals will be bringing up the unknown female's DNA also mixed in those samples.

The barefoot print on the bathmat is a male's. Nobody ever claimed to clean up any type of fluid in the hallway while barefooted and with a barefooted male. Where is the other bloody footprints leading up to the bathmat print? They must have been cleaned by someone. Odd there is a male's barefoot print in blood in the bathroom... but somehow the male's barefoot prints in the hallway are not supposed to be in blood. :waitasec:

Why would RG leave fingerprints, poo, dna, and bloody shoeprints... but take off his shoes to leave barefoot prints that are then cleaned up?

There are no prints leading up to the bathmat print because Rudy's foot wasn't bloody until he took off his shoe and rinsed his bloody pants in the sink. The fact that the bathmat print is faint and diluted in water is proof of that. If the print was left from stepping in blood in Meredith's bedroom and walking over to the mat, it would be a normal print - Not the watery, pinkish one left there.

*Same old thing, no evidence seems to be good enough with regards to AK and RS.

Yes, that's the reason some of us feel they're innocent or that at the least there is reasonable doubt. If I thought some of the evidence was legitimate I would not believe they are innocent, nor would there be such valid arguments against all the evidence.

 

[flourish]

HEADS UP! From here on any post with the word YOU in it will be removed. Everyone is now put on notice that all posts must be written based on YOUR own analysis - NOT on what the other guy says.

So..... reivew your post and find a way to word it without using "you" or your post will be zapped.

Thanks,

Salem

Respectfully emboldened and bumped by me. Review your posts as needed, please, folks, so we can keep this thread open.
:maddening:

 

[otto]

I find it very obvious that the print is RG's. For one the way that it was concluded that the print belonged to RS was via "the grid of L.M. Robbins". Louise Robbins is notorious for making anyone's print match whoever the prosecution wants it to:



http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-3814292.html

Here is a photo of the bathmat print alongside RS's and RG's reference prints. The print is clearly RG's (the one on the right).

I'm not so sure that it is clearly Rudy Guede's footprint. Experts concluded that it was not.

 

[Malkmus]

I'm not so sure that it is clearly Rudy Guede's footprint. Experts concluded that it was not.

Actually the prosecution's expert concluded it wasn't RG's. But the prosecution's expert also used a controversial method that has already landed other innocent people in jail. I don't even know what the defense's argument was, but I do know that the print looks like RG's, nothing like RS's distinctive reference print, and that the prosecution used a dubious method to reach their conclusion.
Yes, in the photo above there is less detail to the bathmat print so it's less clear that it's Rudy's. Does that make it clearer that it's Raf's? No.
Here is another photo, a still taken from the police video, which shows how identical the print is to RG's, even from far away.

 

[otto]

Actually the prosecution's expert concluded it wasn't RG's. But the prosecution's expert also used a controversial method that has already landed other innocent people in jail. I don't even know what the defense's argument was, but I do know that the print looks like RG's, nothing like RS's distinctive reference print, and that the prosecution used a dubious method to reach their conclusion.
Yes, in the photo above there is less detail to the bathmat print so it's less clear that it's Rudy's. Does that make it clearer that it's Raf's? No.
Here is another photo, a still taken from the police video, which shows how identical the print is to RG's, even from far away.

Doesn't the image you attached come from the Friends of Amanda site, and isn't it represented as official? I've attached the official image below. The above image that I attached was contructed from footprint images out of the newspaper, and the bathmat photo. Rudy's foot is longer than Raffaele's foot, but in the image I created, the only adjustment I made was to ensure that the ball of the foot was lined up in all three prints - similar to what appears to have been done in the image you posted. It's unusual tha Rudy's big toe seems smaller in the image you posted.

NOTE: I need to make a correction ... I seem to be tripping up in my imagery ... the footprints I put together are Amanda's foot, the bath mat, and Raffaele's foot. Sorry for the not labeling that correctly.

 

[Malkmus]

Doesn't the image you attached come from the Friends of Amanda site, and isn't it represented as official? I've attached the official image below. The above image that I attached was contructed from footprint images out of the newspaper, and the bathmat photo. Rudy's foot is longer than Raffaele's foot, but in the image I created, the only adjustment I made was to ensure that the ball of the foot was lined up in all three prints - similar to what appears to have been done in the image you posted. It's unusual tha Rudy's big toe seems smaller in the image you posted.

Ironically, the high contrast photo I posted first is from an Italian poster on PMF who thought he was making a point that the print looked more like RS's. And no, it isn't official, but neither is it from FOA. It was from someone who believes in their guilt. The side by side reference prints I posted are the official ones.

The second photo, a screen grab, is from the police video taken by ILE.

I have yet to see any version of the bathmat print that bares any resemblance to RS's distinctive "hammerhead" toe.

I believe the image in your post of RG's longer big toe is due to a stretching of the image (not by you I'm sure, but could be due to the newspaper, bad scan or something), as it doesn't match the real reference print.

 

[Malkmus]

Oh, and Otto, if you'd like you can see Yummi's (the Italian poster on PMF) footprint analysis here:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=271&p=64681&hilit=reference+print+yummi#p64681

The above contains the same official reference prints and high contrast photo. Since PMF is a "guilty"-only site I think it's safe to trust that the high contrast photo and reference prints on there were not posted in some way to skew towards innocence.

 

[otto]

Oh, and Otto, if you'd like you can see Yummi's (the Italian poster on PMF) footprint analysis here:

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=271&p=64681&hilit=reference+print+yummi#p64681

The above contains the same official reference prints and high contrast photo. Since PMF is a "guilty"-only site I think it's safe to trust that the high contrast photo and reference prints on there were not posted in some way to skew towards innocence.

Isn't that the group that made a months long, carefully managed, joint effort between international translators, editors and people from scientific fields to translate the Motivation's Report? I've looked at the original and the translation, and I don't see anything skewed. The track record for accuracy seems pretty good ... although I haven't yet looked at the link you provided.

 

[Malkmus]

Isn't that the group that made a months long, carefully managed, joint effort between international translators, editors and people from scientific fields to translate the Motivation's Report? I've looked at the original and the translation, and I don't see anything skewed. The track record for accuracy seems pretty good ... although I haven't yet looked at the link you provided.

I think you may have misunderstood something. You questioned the reference prints I posted because in the one you have from a newspaper RG's looks different. I explained that the reference prints I posted are official, as are the ones on PMF. What is skewed is the reference prints in the scan you posted, not anything from PMF. I specifically stated that you should be able to trust the photos on PMF.

Maybe we're completely misunderstanding each other because I made no mention of a "translation".

 

[otto]

I think you may have misunderstood something. You questioned the reference prints I posted because in the one you have from a newspaper RG's looks different. I explained that the reference prints I posted are official, as are the ones on PMF. What is skewed is the reference prints in the scan you posted, not anything from PMF. I specifically stated that you should be able to trust the photos on PMF.

Maybe we're completely misunderstanding each other because I made no mention of a "translation".

My mistake ... I thought that you were suggesting that the analysis you linked was somehow faulty or biased.

Malkmus: "Since PMF is a "guilty"-only site I think it's safe to trust that the high contrast photo and reference prints on there were not posted in some way to skew towards innocence."

 

[otto]

I wonder what Raffaele is saying about the footprint to his lawyer.

 

[SleuthyGal]

It doesn't take a list 100 items long to determine that AK and RS may not be guilty.

If MK was murdered around the time she got home or within the first 20 or 30 min, then it wasn't AK or RS because they were still eating dinner/cleaning up. We know RG was there during the murder. We know there is no reason for his DNA to be in that apt. We have his fingerprints in blood in the victim's room. Yet the focus remains on AK and RS as the real villains of this case. Why the vitriol reserved for the 2 people who may have had nothing to do with this murder and very little for the guy who actually DID the murder (that everyone agrees on)?

 

[dgfred]

Why would anyone argue against any of the DNA/fingerprint evidence for Rudy? He admitted to being there the during the murder.

There is no recording of Amanda's interrogation once she was made a suspect. There might be of Raffaele, but no one has heard it, and it's never been mentioned.

What's the point here? She says she noticed the text once she was at Raf's and it has no bearing on the events of that night.

Nobody's coming out and revealing who the guy was because no one cares who he was. He was just a guy who had her phone number, and unless it somehow becomes part of the appeals trial I wouldn't expect anyone to care to answer.

And I suggest reading Nicky's posts over on PMF where she clarifies that she's watched Patrick's subsequent TV interviews where he retracts those statements. Nicky is an Italian and strong believer in Amanda and Raf's guilt so no reason not to trust her.

I think you answered your own question about where Amanda's blood came from. In addition, the appeals will be bringing up the unknown female's DNA also mixed in those samples.

There are no prints leading up to the bathmat print because Rudy's foot wasn't bloody until he took off his shoe and rinsed his bloody pants in the sink. The fact that the bathmat print is faint and diluted in water is proof of that. If the print was left from stepping in blood in Meredith's bedroom and walking over to the mat, it would be a normal print - Not the watery, pinkish one left there.

Yes, that's the reason some of us feel they're innocent or that at the least there is reasonable doubt. If I thought some of the evidence was legitimate I would not believe they are innocent, nor would there be such valid arguments against all the evidence.

RG's lawyers should have argued that it wasn't his dna mixed with blood (contamination or planting), because he had only come over for a date with Meredith. His dna mixed with her blood or in her body doesn't mean anything.
His fingerprints were on file and the police used his to frame him. He was just scared and tried to help her, then panic set in. He was confused, had smoked a joint... and decided that LE would frame him for a murder someone else committed. To the best of his rememberance, he didn't have anything to do with the murder. Any lies he has told are due to LE pressure and coercion. Any lies or inappropriate behavior before the trial is just... RG being RG.

Nobody said recording, just a record signed by both parties.

It does have a bearing if AK states she didn't leave RS's or wasn't near the square at that time period.

Of course nobody will reveal the guy's name :innocent: , but why not if he was just a friend? IMO he was not recorded just for the sake of it... he/she must have revealed something related to dealing for LE to continue the investigation of him. After all, isn't the theory that LE already 'had their man/woman anyway??? Why would she be calling him just after the murder? Is his advice/comfort that valuable to her? How would talking to a cocaine dealer not be relevant in the case, if true? Naming the guy and a firm denial would go a long way in a remedy for this. I'm also sure nobody from the innocent side cares who he was... oystering.

I've pm'ed Nicky personally, and I do trust her judgement. My response received was Patrick was very unhappy with the quality of AK's work, and would have been very pleased if she just quit. She flirted too much, and was 'all over the guys' very often. He did not demote her in name, as it is correct that her job was both handing out flyers and waitress... but from that point (a day or two before the murder) she would not be waitressing in actuality. She was also told of Meredith's coming to make drinks, and stormed off according to Patrick. That's clear IMO.

What unknown dna mixed with AK's blood and Meredith's dna in the sink, etc?
If AK had an infected ear, wouldn't she have noticed it bleeding in the sink?
If one was torn out in a struggle, what would that struggle have been on the night of a murder?

I do not believe RG taking off his pants and shoes is a reasonable explanation of the scene... so I will not respond to it further.

It seems no evidence in this case can be considered legitimate from such a viewpoint... it ALL can be excused or brushed away. :stretch: