Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

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  • #421
True, how can Rudy leave poop in the toilet, but then take off and put on his shoes after a murder, wash the floor but not clean up everything, and break a window when it's easier to walk in through the deck door.

footprintmeasure.jpg

What is this picture supposed to tell us?

Also, I don't think RG cleaned anything and when he broke in to Cristian Tramontano's house he also exited through a door he didn't have the key to instead of exiting the way he came in.
 
  • #422
Sounds par for the course to me. I'm going to guess that many young adults write about taboo subjects or edgy topics that mimic the current media trends. If you were to take a sample from a college creative writing class of women today would you be surprised to see many of the stories depicting certain fears like rape, drugs, pregnancy, and death? How often are these things depicted in books, movies, and TV?

I expected your response ... everyone writes about good thinks, and only the bad things came to light because Amanda is a convicted murderer, right? All women are fixated on rape, drugs, and murder so naturally that's what Amanda is focused on, and writing about, because she is a creative writer and that's her focus in life ... a sampling of university graduates would not result in women that write stories focused on rape, drugs and violence. Please tell the Knox family to tune in to the real world. If "everyone is doing it" is the excuse for the violent imagery via literacy that has emerged from Seattle, then we should give up on those women ... the drug, violence and death fixated gender.
 
  • #423
Marijuana is what they smoked that night. I too find it straining credulity to believe they were stoned out of their gourds but were lucid enough to stage a break-in nearly identical to RG's other break-ins, wipe all their DNA fingerprints away while carefully leaving all evidence of RG, and still be wide awake the next day.

I think Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito smoked hashish the night that Meredith Kercher was murdered.

They were stoned out of their minds at 9 pm. Meredith had bled to death or was bleeding to death before any staged break-in was devised. Staged breakins are indeed an after the fact thing. The wiped up prints that were only visible under luminol is pretty weird ... prints that required luminol to be visible ... were they wiped up prints, or were they just Amanda and Raffaele playing on the bath mat ... scooching and smooching across the floor?

Have you seen how wide awake Amanda and Raffaele looked the next day? I don't think they looked rested ... do you have a picture of either of them from the next day where they look well rested, showered and normal (not smooching during the murder investigation)?
 
  • #424
What is this picture supposed to tell us?

Also, I don't think RG cleaned anything and when he broke in to Cristian Tramontano's house he also exited through a door he didn't have the key to instead of exiting the way he came in.

It reminds us that the bloody footprint on the bathmatt ... the one that looks like Raffaele's print ... is not Amanda or Rudy's print. Raffaele ... that's the guy that's just being Raffaele, like Bundy is just being Ted ... like an Amelie character ... playing with knifes and into bestiality films ... he's just a computer nerd.
 
  • #425
This is Amanda's family, respecting the courtroom and proceedings, documenting their murder trial.

AKcam1.jpg
 
  • #426
The argument made was that RG should have/could have argued contamination or planting of evidence as some have claimed for AK and RS. The problem is RG could never claim contamination or planting of evidence because he admits to being responsible for his DNA being in Meredith's vagina, and you can't plant a bloody fingerprint. Therefore, that argument goes right out the window.

Just to clarify, I don't subscribe to the notion that any evidence in this case was planted.

Not sure what your point was then. If you're just talking about a record of the interrogation signed by them, that exists for Amanda as both witness and suspect, not just suspect.

The key word being if. And the answer to that is no, she did not.

I know you'd really like to know who this guy was, but the problem is that it's a tabloid story that never made it out of Italy and unless it gains any sort of real traction nobody is going to answer your question. My take on it is that no one outside of Amanda knows who this guy is because it's highly likely that they were just acquaintances or it's even possible that the whole story is bunk and they never knew each other. It wouldn't be the first time a completely false story has come out about Amanda in the Italian press. Maybe you've followed it more than me... Has there been any sort of development in the story since the initial one?

I don't know where your version of what Nicki told you ends. I saw the claim for the first time on PMF today from Capealadin, not Nicki, that she stormed off when hearing that Meredith would bartend ladies' nights. Capealadin is also still under the impression that Patrick demoted Amanda, so it seems she is still going by old rumors. Here is Nicki's post about the Patrick interviews:

And why would Amanda get mad that her roommate would be working one night at Le Chic? It just doesn't make sense within the context of what we know.

She talks about her ears in her testimony. She states that she thought Meredith's blood drops in the sink were from her ear because she often washed one of the infected ones in there.

This is worded a bit strange so not sure what you're asking. It's been speculated that Amanda may have had an earring torn out during the murder, but she was inspected by LE and according to Massei no injuries were found. An earring being ripped out would look very different from an infection from a new piercing.

Well, you've misread what I said. I didn't say he took his pants off. I said he took his shoe off and washed his pant leg in the sink. This would explain why he says in his diary that his pants were wet (not bloody).

I'm not the only one who thinks so. The fact that three retired FBI agents have looked into this case and come to the conclusion is very telling. The fact that the vast majority of major news reports question the validity of the evidence or outright ridicule it is also telling. The fact that certain members of the Italian press are now coming out against the evidence as well is very telling. It's not just posters on the internet who think there is ample reasonable doubt in this case.


RG could have claimed (like he did) that he was there on mutual agreement with Meredith. The only legitimate dna is what is found in Meredith because it was there consensually. Any fingerprint evidence outside of that is bogus... somebody else killed Meredith, while he was in the bathroom. He only tried to help and then panic set in... he 'knew' he would be blamed so ran off to Germany.

The interesting point is how nothing outside of guilt is seen for RG from the RS/AK innocent point of view... but EVERYTHING has an excuse when it comes to their guilt, EVERYTHING!

Well it doesn't have to be planted, if everything is going to be doubted in every instance because of incompetance, evil prosecutor, poor police work, police coercion, police brutality, using the wrong experts, and on-and-on.

But any record of her statements as a 'witness' were not used against her at trial... only once she accused Patrick was used.

Of course everyone on the guilt side wants to know the guys name, it could be very relevant and telling to what happened. The innocent side should too if it is actually a 'bunk'... but I also understand attempts to sweep it under the rug.

That quoted post does NOT change anything about my post. Everything I posted about Patrick was said in those interviews. I didn't claim he fired her, only that if she quit he would have been perfectly fine with it. She wasn't the kind of worker he wanted. He also claimed she stormed off when told of Meredith working there, even if it was for only one night a week.

It makes sense IMO that she was upset about it, maybe not 'mad'... yet.

Yes, she talks about her ears in testimony both claiming it 'might' have been from her ears, and also of RS cleaning them in the shower too :waitasec: . But if we go by AK's credibility... it does make one wonder.

She seems to have the same problem as the other two with changing/silly/confusing/un-reasonable explanations to evidence as LE was stating what evidence was piling up showing guilt. A pattern of behavior it seems in this case.

I have no idea how much different an infected earring hole would look from one that was torn out. But the blood of AK's did have to come from 'somewhere', no way around that.

IMO if he was going to wash off, it makes much more sense to get in the shower and wash both pant and shoes (while on)... I would speculate that his shoes had some blood on them too. I also think wet and bloody mean the same thing... he didn't want to say bloody IMO. I see no reason to take his shoes off or try to wash his pants in the sink. No way, no how. The bathmat print being a barefoot print has got pro-innocent theorist jumping thru hoops and doing mental gymnastics to explain away... much like Filomena's window IMO.

I would like to see some 'accurate' reporting and analysis from those three retired FBI agents... especially MrMoore. What I've seen from them has been inaccurate in the extreme IMO. They also haven't seen the entire case files, were not present at the trial, and their analysis/media rounds so far have been wildly off base IMO. Most media reports from Italy do not doubt their guilt. Only a couple, and they have not 'come out' IMO as they have been leaning that way all along, are claiming innocence. In fact, much of the US media reporting of the case is more along the PR variety or even tabloid IMO. Of course if AK's family is going on tv... the media is not going to grill them over the facts of the case and the evidence against her or the family would NOT come on tv in the first place. More money for the family/PR firm/hangers on. The pro-innocent posters on the internet have taken it to a whole other realm in 'oystering' IMO.
 
  • #427
I expected your response ... everyone writes about good thinks, and only the bad things came to light because Amanda is a convicted murderer, right? All women are fixated on rape, drugs, and murder so naturally that's what Amanda is focused on, and writing about, because she is a creative writer and that's her focus in life ... a sampling of university graduates would not result in women that write stories focused on rape, drugs and violence. Please tell the Knox family to tune in to the real world. If "everyone is doing it" is the excuse for the violent imagery via literacy that has emerged from Seattle, then we should give up on those women ... the drug, violence and death fixated gender.

I think your perception that people don't regularly write about such themes as pregnancy, rape, drugs, sex and death is way off. One need only to walk into the fiction section of their local book store to see that these topics are in abundance.
 
  • #428
I think Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito smoked hashish the night that Meredith Kercher was murdered.

They were stoned out of their minds at 9 pm. Meredith had bled to death or was bleeding to death before any staged break-in was devised. Staged breakins are indeed an after the fact thing. The wiped up prints that were only visible under luminol is pretty weird ... prints that required luminol to be visible ... were they wiped up prints, or were they just Amanda and Raffaele playing on the bath mat ... scooching and smooching across the floor?


I think stating that they smoked hash is even more argument that they never would have gotten off their butts in the first place to murder someone in the first place.

The effect sought in cannabis use is euphoria, a feeling of wellbeing and elation. This is usually accompanied by a state of altered perception, particularly of distance and time. The euphoric feeling usually peaks within ten to thirty minutes of smoking marijuana, but residual effects may last from two to three hours.
Marijuana and hashish can impair balance, coordination, speech and thinking. Even small amounts of marijuana have been found to adversely affect driving performance.

http://www.hashish-center.com/hashisheffects.html

In other words it turns your brain and body to mush, barely capable of doing the most rudimentary of tasks.

Have you seen how wide awake Amanda and Raffaele looked the next day? I don't think they looked rested ... do you have a picture of either of them from the next day where they look well rested, showered and normal (not smooching during the murder investigation)?

You're right. They actually look distraught. But I think had they been up all night cleaning and staging a break-in they wouldn't have been up at ten in the morning.
 
  • #429
It reminds us that the bloody footprint on the bathmatt ... the one that looks like Raffaele's print ... is not Amanda or Rudy's print. Raffaele ... that's the guy that's just being Raffaele, like Bundy is just being Ted ... like an Amelie character ... playing with knifes and into bestiality films ... he's just a computer nerd.

I think you'll have to spell this one out for me. What is the computer screen grab from? Is it yours? What are the measurements you've circled corresponding to? How does this prove what your stating? Sorry, it's just not clear in your post.
 
  • #430
The more I read, the more I find myself ALMOST blaming Mignini for the entire fiasco, including MK's murder.

Rudy had been caught 3 times as a burglar, 1 time threatening with a knife, and each time he was released! It doesnt make any sense to me. Why was he not charged? What is going on here?

Mignini and ILE look much better if AK and RS are the masterminds of the crime than if it is Rudy. Perhaps his involvement goes even further with Rudy as an informant in exchange for the soft treatment he received. (I have no evidence for this)

If this was true, it explains why Mignini would not want the public to think that a "knife brandishing burglar" was knowingly set free and able to commit this crime. They would be responsible for her death, at least in the eyes of the public if it came out.

It explains why it was important for Amanda to be the one holding the knife and downplay Rudys involvement. It explains the need for the staging story. It explains why they object to further independent testing. It explains how he could have a theory of the crime before any of the so-called damning evidence was even processed.

I know it seems crazy to think that a person could be so diabolical to send 2 innocent people away but it just seems to fit. I'd rather believe he is just crazy enough to believe his own outlandish theories but thought I'd throw it out there and see what others think.

Is this too far out there to be possible?
 
  • #431
This is Amanda's family, respecting the courtroom and proceedings, documenting their murder trial.

AKcam1.jpg

Was this in response to someone?
 
  • #432
My question is that since Mignini is corrupt and the government knows he is, why haven't these trials been thrown out?
 
  • #433
RG could have claimed (like he did) that he was there on mutual agreement with Meredith. The only legitimate dna is what is found in Meredith because it was there consensually. Any fingerprint evidence outside of that is bogus... somebody else killed Meredith, while he was in the bathroom. He only tried to help and then panic set in... he 'knew' he would be blamed so ran off to Germany.

That's not claiming contamination or planting of evidence then, which was your original point.

The interesting point is how nothing outside of guilt is seen for RG from the RS/AK innocent point of view... but EVERYTHING has an excuse when it comes to their guilt, EVERYTHING!

Is there anything you think makes them look innocent? I think this argument works both ways. As I've stated, if I thought there was something that made them look guilty, I wouldn't have the viewpoint I do.

Well it doesn't have to be planted, if everything is going to be doubted in every instance because of incompetance, evil prosecutor, poor police work, police coercion, police brutality, using the wrong experts, and on-and-on.

These things have always been the reasons behind other people being wrongly convicted. It doesn't take one or two people. BTW, I don't think anyone's evil, but Mignini is a convicted criminal too.

But any record of her statements as a 'witness' were not used against her at trial... only once she accused Patrick was used.

I'm going to let this topic drop, because I have no idea what your point is anymore, or why you originally stated "They were recorded once they were suspects instead of witnesses".

Of course everyone on the guilt side wants to know the guys name, it could be very relevant and telling to what happened. The innocent side should too if it is actually a 'bunk'... but I also understand attempts to sweep it under the rug.

I think that story is sweeping itself under the rug. Has there been any follow-up articles?

That quoted post does NOT change anything about my post. Everything I posted about Patrick was said in those interviews. I didn't claim he fired her, only that if she quit he would have been perfectly fine with it. She wasn't the kind of worker he wanted. He also claimed she stormed off when told of Meredith working there, even if it was for only one night a week.

It makes sense IMO that she was upset about it, maybe not 'mad'... yet.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking so I'll be specific. Are you getting the "storming off" scenario from Capealadin who just posted that for the first time yesterday on PMF or was it from Nicki who never mentioned it in her original post about Patrick which I quoted. I would find it odd for Nicki to leave it out of her synopsis of what Patrick has said about Amanda.

Yes, she talks about her ears in testimony both claiming it 'might' have been from her ears, and also of RS cleaning them in the shower too :waitasec: . But if we go by AK's credibility... it does make one wonder.

Sure, I can understand that.

She seems to have the same problem as the other two with changing/silly/confusing/un-reasonable explanations to evidence as LE was stating what evidence was piling up showing guilt. A pattern of behavior it seems in this case.

Yes, we have Filomena not remembering if she closed the shutters, Patrick saying he was one place when his phone places him at another, and Inspector Batistelli claiming he didn't enter the bedroom when Luca states he saw him do it with his own two eyes. So who's wrong, mistaken, lying in those instances?

I have no idea how much different an infected earring hole would look from one that was torn out. But the blood of AK's did have to come from 'somewhere', no way around that.

Well, it's rather easy to explain. One is an infection, and the other is tearing of the skin. If Amanda had an earring torn out it would look something like this:

http://www.styleguru.org/entry/fixing-earlobe-tears/

IMO if he was going to wash off, it makes much more sense to get in the shower and wash both pant and shoes (while on)... I would speculate that his shoes had some blood on them too. I also think wet and bloody mean the same thing... he didn't want to say bloody IMO. I see no reason to take his shoes off or try to wash his pants in the sink. No way, no how. The bathmat print being a barefoot print has got pro-innocent theorist jumping thru hoops and doing mental gymnastics to explain away... much like Filomena's window IMO.

I believe your reason for thinking that Rudy couldn't have gotten in the window was because the shutters were closed. I've since pointed out that Filomena testified that she did not remember if she did. How is that mental gymnastics on my part?

If he didn't rinse his leg in the sink what is your reasoning for the bathmat print being a mixture of water and blood? And why aren't there any Raffaele prints leading to the bathroom revealed in Luminol? Why aren't there any Luminol prints of the couple in Meredith's bedroom?

I would like to see some 'accurate' reporting and analysis from those three retired FBI agents... especially MrMoore. What I've seen from them has been inaccurate in the extreme IMO. They also haven't seen the entire case files, were not present at the trial, and their analysis/media rounds so far have been wildly off base IMO. Most media reports from Italy do not doubt their guilt. Only a couple, and they have not 'come out' IMO as they have been leaning that way all along, are claiming innocence. In fact, much of the US media reporting of the case is more along the PR variety or even tabloid IMO. Of course if AK's family is going on tv... the media is not going to grill them over the facts of the case and the evidence against her or the family would NOT come on tv in the first place. More money for the family/PR firm/hangers on. The pro-innocent posters on the internet have taken it to a whole other realm in 'oystering' IMO.

Chalking up all these experts and news articles coming out against the guilty verdict to PR or ignorance is, to quote you, "making excuses". Why the huge lack of articles/experts defending the verdict? I think I've read one article that defended it within the last year and it was by someone who didn't even discuss the evidence, just xenophobia.
 
  • #434
I think your perception that people don't regularly write about such themes as pregnancy, rape, drugs, sex and death is way off. One need only to walk into the fiction section of their local book store to see that these topics are in abundance.

The original reference was regarding [female] university students, not people in general, nor published authors.
 
  • #435
The original reference was regarding [female] university students, not people in general, nor published authors.

Unfortunately, if a person wishes to make a living off of writing, it is seen in books but news programs, news articles etc, the Hardy Boy stuff does not sell books, newspapers or bring ratings up.

Yes some have been able to make a living off of travel articles, cooking etc., but i think most will find that over all the ones that do make the money are the ones that deal with murder, sex, drugs etc. Whether or not i agree with that simply is not how the world as we know it today works unfortunately
 
  • #436
yikes how did that happen i clicked on flourish's post
 
  • #437
HEADS UP! From here on any post with the word YOU in it will be removed. Everyone is now put on notice that all posts must be written based on YOUR own analysis - NOT on what the other guy says.

So..... reivew your post and find a way to word it without using "you" or your post will be zapped.

Thanks,

Salem

Thought this might need a big-bump.
 
  • #438
:seeya:Hello Everyone!

I am changing the rules again :innocent:

The You restriction is being removed with the following notice:

This discussion is about the facts, assumptions and conclusions of the case, not personal characteristics of fellow posters. Argumentum ad hominem posts, defined as: Answering your opponent's argument with irrelevant assumptions about personal characteristics of your opponent in an attempt to derail an argument that you are losing will be removed.

Okay? Please let me know if you have any questions by way of pm.

Thanks!



Salem

bumping new rules as per salem :)
 
  • #439
My question is that since Mignini is corrupt and the government knows he is, why haven't these trials been thrown out?

Honestly and again MOO

I think there were mistakes right from the start not simply GM himself

The very first thing a coroner is to do is take the BODY TEMPERATURE

The ILE did not seal off the crime scene

Some i find to be suspicious such as frying 3 out of 4 hard drives

Others like the DNA on the knife i believe to be contamination

Basically standard procedure kinda fell by the wayside just about every point in this investigation

As for GM he is appealing his sentance and has not been asked to step down which would be demanded here. In fact even though the same prosecutor is not allowed to be on the appeals in Italy he is.

He is CONSULTING :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
  • #440
I didn't find a photo and don't know what you mean by "reference points". Does this have anything to do with scale?

If I can post footprint pictures and resize Amanda's foot to look like Raffaeles, or Raffaeles to look like Rudys ... so much the better to obfuscate the facts.

[ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA

–verb (used with object), -cat·ed, -cat·ing.
1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.
3. to darken.
 
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