Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

[otto]

Here's one of the reports:



http://www.zimbio.com/Meredith+Kercher/articles/18/GUILTY+Drifter+Rudy+Guede+sentenced+30+years

I wonder if he was lying about it, or if it was cleaned up ... if he was lying, I wonder what else he lied about in the early days of the investigation.

 

[Malkmus]

If someone smokes every day... is that considered an addict :waitasec: ?

No, it is not. Addiction is not defined by frequency of use. An addict is someone who can't control their drug use to the point where it becomes disruptive.

addict
[ad′ikt]
Etymology: L, addicere, to devote
a person who has become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a chemical such as alcohol or other drugs to the extent that normal social, occupational, and other responsible life functions are disrupted.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/addict

 

[Malkmus]

I wonder if he was lying about it, or if it was cleaned up ... if he was lying, I wonder what else he lied about in the early days of the investigation.

Let's pretend for a second that he wasn't lying about the "AF" scenario. In what capacity would that even be possible if you think the three of them are guilty? There is no plausible scenario where Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele kill Meredith together, then she whispers to Rudy the words "AF" and he writes it on the wall as a clue as to who might have killed her. Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at it though.

 

[otto]

No, I don't think she was still under the influence of drugs during her November 5th interrogation. What I find plausible is that she didn't remember that night well enough to stand up to ILE when they insisted they knew for a fact that she had gone to the cottage that night. If you have 10 police officers yelling at you that you're lying when you say you were at your boyfriend's home all night, that they know that for a fact you were there and have hard evidence placing you there, I think a naive person who's memory of that night is already fuzzy could go along with that. Especially if after you keep insisting, they tell you that not only are you wrong, but that you'll go to jail for 30 years if you keep sticking to your story. From what I can tell also, the police insisted she go along with their version under the false pretense that they were protecting her and she was doing the right thing by going along with their version. This helped them get their man, and getting AK and RS to break their alibi also secured their theory of an orgy gone wrong. Unfortunately it was all wrong.

I think she was probably stoned on Nov 5-6 while avoiding Meredith's memorial as well, but that's just an opinion. I don't believe that because she was stoned five days earlier, she was more "malleable" during questioning about the events of the night Meredith was murdered. She's supposed to be a sensible woman ... most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness. If she didn't like the way things were handled, then as a sensible woman she should have said something, perhaps kept quiet if 10 people were shouting at her at the same time. Clearly nothing can be accomplished, or even heard, if 10 people are shouting at once. If they were yelling at her, was she then yelling too ... to be heard above them?

 

[otto]

Let's pretend for a second that he wasn't lying about the "AF" scenario. In what capacity would that even be possible if you think the three of them are guilty? There is no plausible scenario where Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele kill Meredith together, then she whispers to Rudy the words "AF" and he writes it on the wall as a clue as to who might have killed her. Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at it though.

I don't know anything about this, and don't see any reason to pursue something that Rudy said and which appears not to be true.

 

[Malkmus]

I think she was probably stoned on Nov 5-6 while avoiding Meredith's memorial as well, but that's just an opinion. I don't believe that because she was stoned five days earlier, she was more "malleable" during questioning about the events of the night Meredith was murdered.

If her memory of that night was foggy because she'd been drinking or doing drugs, it's going to be fuzzy four days later as well.
If you partied with a group of friends on Friday night and got wasted, is your memory of that night going to be crystal clear? Now if 4 days later your friends insist that you went streaking in the backyard that night and you don't remember doing that but do remember doing other things are you going to accuse your friends of lying or are you going to acquiesce to their version of what happened since 10 of them remember you streaking and you trust what they say?

She's supposed to be a sensible woman ... most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness. If she didn't like the way things were handled, then as a sensible woman she should have said something, perhaps kept quiet if 10 people were shouting at her at the same time. Clearly nothing can be accomplished, or even heard, if 10 people are shouting at once. If they were yelling at her, was she then yelling too ... to be heard above them?

The notion that a "sensible woman" can easily withstand a pretty rough, intense police interrogation where multiple officers of the law are rotating turns yelling at you doesn't be seem to be based on anything other than incredulity.

 

[Malkmus]

I don't know anything about this, and don't see any reason to pursue something that Rudy said and which appears not to be true.

You just wondered if he actually did write it but then it was cleaned off.

I wonder if he was lying about it, or if it was cleaned up ... if he was lying, I wonder what else he lied about in the early days of the investigation.

Either way, I'm glad we're now on the same page now.

 

[miley]

Are you saying Laura was desperate for sex so she slept with the washing machine guy? Or are you saying she was desperate for pot so she slept with the washing machine guy? Either way, how exactly does that relate to AK and RS's guilt or lack of guilt of murder?

I haven't read that book...does the author provide sources?

Occasionally, I'll quote Barbie Nadeau to avoid argument...maybe I shouldn't, it appears the tides of change are slowly turning. She does give sources for her book - Amanda's myspace is one, facebook pages, I don't know them all

to clear any confusion, the gist of what Barbie says (pg 13)... apparently, Laura hit a lull in the romance department, desperate for sex, she slept with the washing machine repairman - the girls got a good laugh out of it - Laura eventually met someone and started spending nights with her new boyfriend - Laura and Filomenia liked smoking pot - they had turned away a lot of applicants, excited to meet Amanda, thought she was cool -

Flourish: Either way, how exactly does that relate to AK and RS's guilt or lack of guilt of murder?

I don't understand... in keeping with the discussion I'm responding to Otto's post:

Otto: Laura and Filomina were not students, and they didn't hang out with the students, so I don't think we can throw them in with the rest of the students that lived in the cottage.

I'm pointing out, contrary to popular belief, Laura and Filomenia were, in fact, just like everyone else living in that house - girls and guys included, they all smoked pot and had active sex lives.

 

[Nova]

I think she was probably stoned on Nov 5-6 while avoiding Meredith's memorial as well, but that's just an opinion. I don't believe that because she was stoned five days earlier, she was more "malleable" during questioning about the events of the night Meredith was murdered. She's supposed to be a sensible woman ... most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness. If she didn't like the way things were handled, then as a sensible woman she should have said something, perhaps kept quiet if 10 people were shouting at her at the same time. Clearly nothing can be accomplished, or even heard, if 10 people are shouting at once. If they were yelling at her, was she then yelling too ... to be heard above them?

Obviously, you didn't read the views of scientists at Malkmus' link above. In fact, your assumptions about "sensible women" are incorrect in many, if not most, cases.

And I'll repeat: AK wasn't yet old enough to drink legally in the U.S. And she was dealing with foreign (to her) LE and mostly in a language she was just studying.

Yes, she should have kept quiet. That she didn't and instead made obviously vague, coached and incorrect statements doesn't mean she committed murder.

 

[otto]

You just wondered if he actually did write it but then it was cleaned off.



Either way, I'm glad we're now on the same page now.

Meredith was lying on her side with her throat cut. She had just suffered sexual assault and 44 injuries, including fatal injuries. Do you really think she was talking? Did she die of asphyxiation or exsanguination?

If Rudy wrote something on the wall, who had motive to clean it up?

 

[Malkmus]

Occasionally, I'll quote Barbie Nadeu to avoid argument...maybe I shouldn't, it appears the tides of change are slowly turning. She does give sources for her book - Amanda's myspace is one, facebook pages, I don't know them all

I've noticed this "change" as well... There was a time when Nadeau was consider the spokesperson for the pro-guilt posters (elsewhere at least) and they would only listen to information provided by her. Now there's, well, I don't know who...

Good points in the rest of your post re the roommates.

 

[Malkmus]

Meredith was lying on her side with her throat cut. She had just suffered sexual assault and 44 injuries, including fatal injuries. Do you really think she was talking? Did she die of asphyxiation or exsanguination?

If Rudy wrote something on the wall, who had motive to clean it up?

I don't know if you're purposely being deceptive here so I'm just going to quote myself from just a few minutes ago because you don't seem to be getting my position on this matter

There is no plausible scenario where Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele kill Meredith together, then she whispers to Rudy the words "AF" and he writes it on the wall as a clue as to who might have killed her.

 

[Allusonz]

Great article if no one's read this:



http://www.injusticebusters.com/04/Loftus_Elizabeth.shtml

thanks for this link !!! Although lots on the Innocence Project both for Canada and the US, this is extremely comprehensive !!!! BOOKMARKED now lol

 

[otto]

Obviously, you didn't read the views of scientists at Malkmus' link above. In fact, your assumptions about "sensible women" are incorrect in many, if not most, cases.

And I'll repeat: AK wasn't yet old enough to drink legally in the U.S. And she was dealing with foreign (to her) LE and mostly in a language she was just studying.

Yes, she should have kept quiet. That she didn't and instead made obviously vague, coached and incorrect statements doesn't mean she committed murder.

I'm sure it's applicable in the US, but this murder happened in another country where the laws governing everything from how and when a witness is questioned, to trial proceedings and jury selection, are entirely different.

Amanda drank alcohol before and after she went to Perugia. What do drinking laws in Seattle have to do with anything?

 

[otto]

Occasionally, I'll quote Barbie Nadeau to avoid argument...maybe I shouldn't, it appears the tides of change are slowly turning. She does give sources for her book - Amanda's myspace is one, facebook pages, I don't know them all

to clear any confusion, the gist of what Barbie says (pg 13)... apparently, Laura hit a lull in the romance department, desperate for sex, she slept with the washing machine repairman - the girls got a good laugh out of it - Laura eventually met someone and started spending nights with her new boyfriend - Laura and Filomenia liked smoking pot - they had turned away a lot of applicants, excited to meet Amanda, thought she was cool -

I don't understand... in keeping with the discussion I'm responding to Otto's post:


I'm pointing out, contrary to popular belief, Laura and Filomenia were, in fact, just like everyone else living in that house - girls and guys included, they all smoked pot and had active sex lives.

Another rumor about Laura and the washing machine man is that Amanda encouraged Laura to let loose and have a one night stand ... that after Laura did this, Amanda congratulated her. Barbie Nadeau does reference her sources at the beginning of her book, but Filomina and Laura are not mentioned in her list of sources.

 

[otto]

I've noticed this "change" as well... There was a time when Nadeau was consider the spokesperson for the pro-guilt posters (elsewhere at least) and they would only listen to information provided by her. Now there's, well, I don't know who...

Good points in the rest of your post re the roommates.

Nadeau's book was a disappointment, and a testiment to the fact that not every reporter can write a book. Too much of the content focuses on her relationships with other reporters and her experience covering the trial.

 

[otto]

I don't know if you're purposely being deceptive here so I'm just going to quote myself from just a few minutes ago because you don't seem to be getting my position on this matter

I don't understand how a woman that experienced an attack like the one delivered to Meredith was talking to one of her attackers.

 

[Malkmus]

I don't understand how a woman that experienced an attack like the one delivered to Meredith was talking to one of her attackers.

Neither do I, so I don't understand why you keep acting like I do. I thought this was settled hours ago.

 

[otto]

Neither do I, so I don't understand why you keep acting like I do. I thought this was settled hours ago.

I'm lost. I was under the impression that there should be some speculation regarding whether Rudy wrote something in blood and it was cleaned up (who cleaned it up), whether he lied, and if he had written something in blood - what it would have said. Personally, I don't think Meredith was in any condition to speak. Furthermore, I doubt she would waste her last breath communicating something useful to her attackers.

 

[Malkmus]

I'm lost. I was under the impression that there should be some speculation regarding whether Rudy wrote something in blood and it was cleaned up (who cleaned it up), whether he lied, and if he had written something in blood - what it would have said. Personally, I don't think Meredith was in any condition to speak. Furthermore, I doubt she would waste her last breath communicating something useful to her attackers.

Otto, you need to reread our conversation from the beginning. You can start with the part where I told you the "AF" incident never happened and that it was a lie fabricated by Rudy for no apparent reason. So far you are the only one who speculated that it could be possible when you claimed that had he written the words they could have just been wiped off.

If you think I speculated the "AF" story was ever true then please cite where I ever said this.