Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

[flourish]

Obviously, you didn't read the views of scientists at Malkmus' link above. In fact, your assumptions about "sensible women" are incorrect in many, if not most, cases.

And I'll repeat: AK wasn't yet old enough to drink legally in the U.S. And she was dealing with foreign (to her) LE and mostly in a language she was just studying.

Yes, she should have kept quiet. That she didn't and instead made obviously vague, coached and incorrect statements doesn't mean she committed murder.

RBBM
Are they assumptions or opinions?

 

[Malkmus]

RBBM
Are they assumptions or opinions?

Sounds like Otto made an assumption based on an opinion. Do the semantics of it really matter? The real question is, how much truth is there to the claim that "most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness"? The fact is false confessions happen all the time, to grown men even, and within two hours. What Amanda claims happened to her in that interrogation is not unprecedented.

 

[otto]

Otto, you need to reread our conversation from the beginning. You can start with the part where I told you the "AF" incident never happened and that it was a lie fabricated by Rudy for no apparent reason. So far you are the only one who speculated that it could be possible when you claimed that had he written the words they could have just been wiped off.

If you think I speculated the "AF" story was ever true then please cite where I ever said this.

From the top ...

suit yourself - just remember, Rudy said he couldn't get pen and paper and instead dipped his finger in meredith's blood to write her dying last words on the wall so he wouldn't forget.

... and then

Let's pretend for a second that he wasn't lying about the "AF" scenario. In what capacity would that even be possible if you think the three of them are guilty? There is no plausible scenario where Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele kill Meredith together, then she whispers to Rudy the words "AF" and he writes it on the wall as a clue as to who might have killed her. Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at it though.

Perhaps I misunderstood ... wouldn't be the first time.

 

[otto]

Sounds like Otto made an assumption based on an opinion. Do the semantics of it really matter? The real question is, how much truth is there to the claim that "most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness"? The fact is false confessions happen all the time, to grown men even, and within two hours. What Amanda claims happened to her in that interrogation is not unprecedented.

Perhaps Amanda isn't all that sensible ... she has been known to flip cartwheels at the police station during a murder investigation.

I think there are some facts of the case that we cannot simply discard, such as the country where the crime occurred and the laws of that country. What do we know about foreigners giving false confessions in Italy? Doug Preston didn't give a false confession after he was arrested for interfering with a police investigation, even though he claims to have been thoroughly interrogated. Patrick Lumumba was detained and presumably questioned for two weeks and he didn't give a false confession. Rudy Guede was questioned and he lied, but also accepted responsibilitiy. Are there any foreigners that have given false confessions in Italy ... after 2 hours of being questioned as a witness?

 

[flourish]

Sounds like Otto made an assumption based on an opinion. Do the semantics of it really matter? The real question is, how much truth is there to the claim that "most sensible women don't fall apart with 2 hours of questioning as a witness"? The fact is false confessions happen all the time, to grown men even, and within two hours. What Amanda claims happened to her in that interrogation is not unprecedented.

Semantics do matter, I think (heh). When there is an accusatory tone or sentiment, it's essential to be clear. As Salem reminded us the other day, we are allowed to have opinions, and we are allowed to give whatever weight we feel appropriate to other people's opinions.

Otto, and the rest of us, are free to make assumptions based on our opinions, and post them as such. Perhaps asking Otto why he possibly thinks that most sensible women wouldn't fall apart under questioning would be more likely to get a reasonable response than simply telling him he's wrong. IMO

ETA: If I had a list of words to describe AK, sensible would probably be about number 434,284,972 on that list. I think she's anything but sensible

 

[Malkmus]

From the top ...



... and then



Perhaps I misunderstood ... wouldn't be the first time.

Really, Otto? You just quoted me out of context to make your point. My response was not to Miley it was to you... Sigh, here is the actual conversation:

What was written on the wall?

Nothing. It was a lie. Who knows why he would even lie about such a disturbing thing when it was easily proven wrong.

I wonder if he was lying about it, or if it was cleaned up ... if he was lying, I wonder what else he lied about in the early days of the investigation.

Let's pretend for a second that he wasn't lying about the "AF" scenario. In what capacity would that even be possible if you think the three of them are guilty? There is no plausible scenario where Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele kill Meredith together, then she whispers to Rudy the words "AF" and he writes it on the wall as a clue as to who might have killed her. Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at it though.

I don't know anything about this, and don't see any reason to pursue something that Rudy said and which appears not to be true.

You presumed that Rudy wasn't lying and that the "AF" could have been wiped off the wall, to which I said it isn't plausible.

 

[miley]

dgfred: As far as 'testing' for cocaine... wasn't it at least 3+ days after the murder that the test were done? Maybe it was out of their systems.

okay, i googled it.
testing hair for drugs - standard hair testing detects drugs up to 3 months or 90 days (which uses 1-1/2 inches of hair) testing 3 inches of hair would detect up to 6 months etc. It can determine recreational vs. chronic use
Amanda & Raphaele - both tested negative for cocaine.

Having 'contact' by phone with a cocaine dealer is enlightening to me..not to mention in the time period surrounding a murder being quite suspicious too IMO

still the same, Amanda & Raphaele tested negative for cocaine.

 

[Malkmus]

ETA: If I had a list of words to describe AK, sensible would probably be about number 434,284,972 on that list. I think she's anything but sensible

I was going to ask you about that actually :floorlaugh:

Seemed odd that Otto would describe her as such in the first place...

Agreed on the other stuff. But i don't think it boils down to whether something is an assumption or opinion, they're pretty synonymous. So I think the rule applies regardless.

 

[miley]

(snip)I think there are some facts of the case that we cannot simply discard, such as the country where the crime occurred

lol, I'll agree with that - with respect to Nova, I don't think that's what he meant

 

[otto]

So ... Amanda is not sensible, semantics matter, Rudy lied and no one wants to discuss the writing on the wall?

 

[Allusonz]

LOL, yeah, I'll be storming the bookstore doors for that one. Right after I pull my own fingernails out with a pair of needle-nose pliers.

Anyone know about any laws in Italy about convicted murderers writing and publishing/releasing books, about their crimes or not, and profiting from it?

Ouch lol

Might i suggest some relaxing music and a glass of wine perhaps? I would personally not worry about the rush, they will probably be there for some time

 

[flourish]

okay, i googled it.
testing hair for drugs - standard hair testing detects drugs up to 3 months or 90 days (which uses 1-1/2 inches of hair) testing 3 inches of hair would detect up to 6 months etc. It can determine recreational vs. chronic use
Amanda & Raphaele - both tested negative for cocaine.
still the same, Amanda & Raphaele tested negative for cocaine.

Are there any sources which discuss the negative drugs testing other than the Nadeau book and/or does she offer a specific source for that possible fact? Like, is there a footnote or an, "according to _____," or something like that?

 

[Allusonz]

okay, i googled it.
testing hair for drugs - standard hair testing detects drugs up to 3 months or 90 days (which uses 1-1/2 inches of hair) testing 3 inches of hair would detect up to 6 months etc. It can determine recreational vs. chronic use
Amanda & Raphaele - both tested negative for cocaine.
still the same, Amanda & Raphaele tested negative for cocaine.

Yes Miley most forget this one little test

 

[flourish]

I was going to ask you about that actually :floorlaugh:

Seemed odd that Otto would describe her as such in the first place...

Agreed on the other stuff. But i don't think it boils down to whether something is an assumption or opinion, they're pretty synonymous. So I think the rule applies regardless.

I don't know that Otto was genuinely describing her as sensible...I thought he was being facetious, but only Otto can actually answer that

My point re: assumption vs. opinion was to remind everyone to consider whether their post is likely to come across as rude or combative, etc.
NOT THAT I'M SAYING ANYONE'S POSTS WERE RUDE OR COMBATIVE. I just noticed that particular sentence and used it as an opportunity to reflect "out loud" upon semantics and the nature of non face-to-face discussion, etc. eace:

 

[Allusonz]

Hope this helps as cocaine is not what they usually test for as that is not what metabolises in your system

There is a bit of misinformation out there and that is cocaine is out of your system in 2-3 days. Well while that might be true LABS DON'T TEST FOR THE DRUG ITSELF. Yes, that is true, they look for the metabolite. A metabolite is something that the body produces when it ingests something, in the case of cocaine it is "benzoylecgonine" that will stay around long after the drug is gone, up to 30 days for a frequent user. THE DRUG ITSELF can stay in your bloodstream up to 72 hours. It can stay in your urine for about 2 or up to 7 days after single use. Habitual or chronic use can be detected in urine for up to 12 weeks depending on quantity, duration, and frequency of use.

Cocain can stay in your hair up to about 90 days. But there are also information that cocaine can stay in your hair for about 25 years after you only take it once

 

[flourish]

Ouch lol

Might i suggest some relaxing music and a glass of wine perhaps? I would personally not worry about the rush, they will probably be there for some time

LOL, Maybe I can pre-order it on my Kindle! That would be super-awesome extra cool
:giggle:
Thanks for the comic relief exchange, Allusonz

 

[Allusonz]

LOL, Maybe I can pre-order it on my Kindle! That would be super-awesome extra cool
:giggle:
Thanks for the comic relief exchange, Allusonz

well dont waste good nail polish , at least sit back and enjoy it rofl

plus an INFECTION might set in and based on your clotting factor it Might end you up in the hospital for Blood Loss!!! Whom could then take my quirky jokes

 

[Salem]

okay, i googled it.
testing hair for drugs - standard hair testing detects drugs up to 3 months or 90 days (which uses 1-1/2 inches of hair) testing 3 inches of hair would detect up to 6 months etc. It can determine recreational vs. chronic use
Amanda & Raphaele - both tested negative for cocaine.
still the same, Amanda & Raphaele tested negative for cocaine.

IIRC hair testing is not typically accepted as "scientific" in American courts (I could be wrong here). How do we know that A & R had their hair tested? Is that in the docs somewhere and I just missed it?

TIA,

Salem

 

[Salem]

According to their drug test analysis, Amanda and Raphaele were both clear of cocaine - it's not in the report because it's not relevant..

Filomenia and Laura both liked smoking pot - Laura slept with the washing machine repairman out of desperation (source: Angel Face pg.13)

Who's Angel Face and why don't you just provide the link?

Salem

ETA: Never mind, I see it is some book. Thanks!

 

[Malkmus]

So ... Amanda is not sensible, semantics matter, Rudy lied and no one wants to discuss the writing on the wall?

Is there something more to discuss re the writing on the wall? I thought we agreed it could never have happened? Would you like to elaborate on your hypothesis that a "sensible woman" like Amanda would never have been coerced after two hours of interrogation?