Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

[Nova]

I don't know that Otto was genuinely describing her as sensible...I thought he was being facetious, but only Otto can actually answer that

My point re: assumption vs. opinion was to remind everyone to consider whether their post is likely to come across as rude or combative, etc.
NOT THAT I'M SAYING ANYONE'S POSTS WERE RUDE OR COMBATIVE. I just noticed that particular sentence and used it as an opportunity to reflect "out loud" upon semantics and the nature of non face-to-face discussion, etc. eace:

The word "assumption" isn't necessarily negative. Sometimes it merely means the "premise" on which one's argument is based.

As it did in my reply to otto that seems to have bothered you so much.

Opinions can be informed or completely baseless or insanely delusional. There's no particular honor or respect conveyed by calling a post an "opinion" rather than an "assumption."

 

[flourish]

Are there any sources which discuss the negative drugs testing other than the Nadeau book and/or does she offer a specific source for that possible fact? Like, is there a footnote or an, "according to _____," or something like that?

Just bumping b/c I'm still waiting and don't want it to get lost

 

[flourish]

I don't know that it matters. I used the word "assumptions" because I was talking about beliefs on matters with which the poster has claimed no personal experience and done no formal research, on which the poster provided no citation.

So "assumption" seemed accurate. It wasn't a criticism.

Thank you for your response and further information.

 

[Nova]

She can appeal ALL she wants but her actions do not jive with someone who just lost a friend to a brutal murder.

Her actions before/after trial= GUILTY

If I was her, I would be crying my eyes out, she hardly cried at all (IF any)

She already confessed to being there.

The first thing she should have done was run out of the cottage, call the police on her cell phone or at least run to a neighbor's house and bang on the door.

She Didn't, once she saw the blood, she decided to take a shower. (like the blood was nothing).

I think there is something seriously wrong with Amanda Marie Knox.

of course her family and friends paint her as this :innocent: angel who can do no wrong. :sick:

I have no faith whatsoever in testimony re the appropriateness of someone's affect. In the first place, some people are highly emotional, others are quite reserved and get even more so in a crisis or when shocked. Some cry readily in front of others, some cry only in private and some people never cry at all. None of this is proof is guilt.

In the second, perception of affect often has more to do with the observer than with the observed (i.e., it's projection or it's based mostly on the observer's preconceived opinion of guilt or innocence). In the post I quote above, the poster tells us what she would do if her friend were murdered and I have no reason to disbelieve her; but neither do I have any reason to assume AK would behave in the same manner. IMHO, affect is too often judged by this method.

Furthermore, outside their usage by trained therapists (and even there, we should be wary), the words used to describe affect have widely varying meanings and degrees. "Sad" can mean anything from suicidal to briefly disappointed. Although "cartwheel" would seem to have a more concrete meaning than "sad"--and AK's actions at the police station have been discussed ad infinitum--I still don't think we have anything close to a clear picture of what AK's actual movements were. Those who believe AK to be guilty like to invoke the "cartwheel" because the word in English suggests an expression of joy, but I've yet to see a description of the alleged "cartwheel" that is sufficiently detailed for me to judge whether it can tell us anything about how AK was feeling at the time.

 

[Nova]

The word "assumption" isn't necessarily negative. Sometimes it merely means the "premise" on which one's argument is based.

As it did in my reply to otto that seems to have bothered you so much.

Opinions can be informed or completely baseless or insanely delusional. There's no particular honor or respect conveyed by calling a post an "opinion" rather than an "assumption."

(Sorry. Got back to this post too late to add an ETA.)

Just to be clear re my post above...

It was my assumption that no one reading it would think I meant that otto's opinions might be "baseless" or "delusional."

It is my opinion that anyone who has read otto's posts knows better.

And in fact, no one was more helpful than otto in assisting me to re-familiarize myself with this case, both in the threads themselves and in private messages where he directed me to the most important sources.

I was merely discussing the semantics of the word "opinion" and how the word alone tells us nothing of its worth.

 

[Malkmus]

She can appeal ALL she wants but her actions do not jive with someone who just lost a friend to a brutal murder.

Her actions before/after trial= GUILTY

If I was her, I would be crying my eyes out, she hardly cried at all (IF any)

"Last weekend her flatmate Filomena Romanelli testified that she did cry, she did react in a way that you would expect."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-says-case-has-not-been-proved-1609305.html

She already confessed to being there.

And immediately retracted that statement once she was out of the interrogation. Yet ILE arrested Partrick despite her protests that she didn't think she'd been at the cottage and even wrote them asking those statements not be used against him.

The first thing she should have done was run out of the cottage, call the police on her cell phone or at least run to a neighbor's house and bang on the door.

She Didn't, once she saw the blood, she decided to take a shower. (like the blood was nothing).

The "bloody sink":

I think there is something seriously wrong with Amanda Marie Knox.

of course her family and friends paint her as this :innocent: angel who can do no wrong. :sick:

Edda sent an email: “Amanda is not perfect, and I hope I did not come across as saying she is. She is innocent and really a lovely young woman.”

http://www.seattlemet.com/issues/archives/articles/seattle-prep-amanda-knox-1210/6/

 

[otto]

Maybe she will be a productive member of society... after almost 20 years.

If the prosecutor has his way, it will be life.
Even prosecutors are entitled to appeal a guilty verdict in Italy.

 

[Malkmus]

If the prosecutor has his way, it will be life.
Even prosecutors are entitled to appeal a guilty verdict in Italy.

Funny he's not appealing Rudy's sentence to get it extended, especially as he has the shortest sentence and is also the one with the most evidence against him, and is also the one who admitted to leaving Meredith to die.

ETA: seems almost spiteful, like the culunnia charges...

 

[otto]

(Sorry. Got back to this post too late to add an ETA.)

Just to be clear re my post above...

It was my assumption that no one reading it would think I meant that otto's opinions might be "baseless" or "delusional."

It is my opinion that anyone who has read otto's posts knows better.

And in fact, no one was more helpful than otto in assisting me to re-familiarize myself with this case, both in the threads themselves and in private messages where he directed me to the most important sources.

I was merely discussing the semantics of the word "opinion" and how the word alone tells us nothing of its worth.

My friend. Are you suggesting that my remarks are baseless or delusional?
Are you apologizing for suggesting same?

I better go back and read the last few posts ...

 

[otto]

To opine.
Opinion.

.. the "what if" game.

 

[otto]

Amanda Knox strikes me as a dead soul. Somewhere between her crazy stories and convoluted statements, she does not appear to be genuine.

 

[otto]

Funny he's not appealing Rudy's sentence to get it extended, especially as he has the shortest sentence and is also the one with the most evidence against him, and is also the one who admitted to leaving Meredith to die.

ETA: seems almost spiteful, like the culunnia charges...

Rudy chose the fast track trial ... he accepted responsibility for part of the crime, but has maintained that others were involved ... coincidentally similar to the story of Amanda Knox.

Pleading and fast tracking the trial kind of precludes the prosecutor attempting to extend, or appeal the sentence. Rudy more or less confessed to the lesser charge of being culpable in the murder, but not commiting the murder (it would not have made any difference in his sentance if he had admitted murder).

Rudy was sentenced with 30 years in prison and his sentence was reduce for cooperating ... to 16 years ... but never has he exonerated Amanda and Raffaele. Is Rudy just a terrible person that enjoys seeing innocent people in jail, or is there a reason why he implicated Amanda and Raffaele ... that he was there but he didn't cause all of the 44 injuries.

 

[iluvmua]

If Rudy was the only one who committed this crime, did he lock the bed room door so Meredith could not escape?

And why will Raf NOT back up Amanda's story. Surely since Raf was Amanda's boyfriend at the time and IF they really did not help commit this crime then why will he not back up his former gf's story?

If he was a caring boyfriend, I'm sure he'd be the first to say " She didn't do it" "She was with me the entire time".

Meredith's friends stuck to one story and one story only, So why didn't Raf & Amanda?

I guess Raf likes to take down innocent people with him as well.

 

[iluvmua]

Rudy chose the fast track trial ... he accepted responsibility for part of the crime, but has maintained that others were involved ... coincidentally similar to the story of Amanda Knox.

Pleading and fast tracking the trial kind of precludes the prosecutor attempting to extend, or appeal the sentence. Rudy more or less confessed to the lesser charge of being culpable in the murder, but not commiting the murder (it would not have made any difference in his sentance if he had admitted murder).

Rudy was sentenced with 30 years in prison and his sentence was reduce for cooperating ... to 16 years ... but never has he exonerated Amanda and Raffaele. Is Rudy just a terrible person that enjoys seeing innocent people in jail, or is there a reason why he implicated Amanda and Raffaele ... that he was there but he didn't cause all of the 44 injuries.

Didn't his lawyers say he's either willing to testify against Raf & Amanda or implicate that they were there?

 

[Nova]

Funny he's not appealing Rudy's sentence to get it extended, especially as he has the shortest sentence and is also the one with the most evidence against him, and is also the one who admitted to leaving Meredith to die.

ETA: seems almost spiteful, like the culunnia charges...

I don't think there's any question that it's spiteful.

 

[Nova]

My friend. Are you suggesting that my remarks are baseless or delusional?
Are you apologizing for suggesting same?

I better go back and read the last few posts ...

No, no, no. I'm saying just the opposite.

We went from discussing your opinion to discussing the word "opinion" in general. I think that was clear in the posts, but I wanted to make sure that my mention of "baseless" and "delusional" opinions was NOT a reference to you.

 

[Nova]

Amanda Knox strikes me as a dead soul. Somewhere between her crazy stories and convoluted statements, she does not appear to be genuine.

I understand why she does not appear genuine. In most of the statements we have, she is not being genuine, at first because she was suspected of murder and later because she was charged. Even if and when she was telling the truth, she was performing it for an audience of judges, jurors and press, under the highly artificial conditions of a trial.

Even now, she has to know that her fate is very much in the hands of others and may depend on how she is perceived.

I don't think we should believe we know the real Amanda Knox based on her performances in interrogations and on the witness stand. I don't think it's possible to be genuine in those situations.

 

[Nova]

Rudy chose the fast track trial ... he accepted responsibility for part of the crime, but has maintained that others were involved ... coincidentally similar to the story of Amanda Knox.

Pleading and fast tracking the trial kind of precludes the prosecutor attempting to extend, or appeal the sentence. Rudy more or less confessed to the lesser charge of being culpable in the murder, but not commiting the murder (it would not have made any difference in his sentance if he had admitted murder).

Rudy was sentenced with 30 years in prison and his sentence was reduce for cooperating ... to 16 years ... but never has he exonerated Amanda and Raffaele. Is Rudy just a terrible person that enjoys seeing innocent people in jail, or is there a reason why he implicated Amanda and Raffaele ... that he was there but he didn't cause all of the 44 injuries.

Isn't it more likely RG was simply pleasing the prosecutor who allowed the reduction in sentence? (If so, it doesn't prove AK's innocence, but neither does it prove her guilt.)

 

[Nova]

If Rudy was the only one who committed this crime, did he lock the bed room door so Meredith could not escape?

And why will Raf NOT back up Amanda's story. Surely since Raf was Amanda's boyfriend at the time and IF they really did not help commit this crime then why will he not back up his former gf's story?

If he was a caring boyfriend, I'm sure he'd be the first to say " She didn't do it" "She was with me the entire time".

Meredith's friends stuck to one story and one story only, So why didn't Raf & Amanda?

I guess Raf likes to take down innocent people with him as well.

Why did anyone lock the door?

How has RS refused to "back up" AK's story other than admitting he can't know for sure where she was all night (something no sleeping person could know for sure)?

How can "Meredith's friends" be compared to murder suspects? There is no similarity in how they are treated by LE.

 

[flourish]

I don't think there's any question that it's spiteful.

I don't think there's any question that you believe it's spiteful.

However, other opinions may, and do, differ.

I appreciate Otto's thoughts on the subject:

Rudy chose the fast track trial ... he accepted responsibility for part of the crime, but has maintained that others were involved ... coincidentally similar to the story of Amanda Knox.

Pleading and fast tracking the trial kind of precludes the prosecutor attempting to extend, or appeal the sentence. Rudy more or less confessed to the lesser charge of being culpable in the murder, but not commiting the murder (it would not have made any difference in his sentance if he had admitted murder).

Rudy was sentenced with 30 years in prison and his sentence was reduce for cooperating ... to 16 years ... but never has he exonerated Amanda and Raffaele. Is Rudy just a terrible person that enjoys seeing innocent people in jail, or is there a reason why he implicated Amanda and Raffaele ... that he was there but he didn't cause all of the 44 injuries.

ETA: Rudy was simply pleasing the prosecutor? Yeah, I don't think so.