Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[Nova]

What facts? That AK changed while attending college? Actually, that's rather the point of education: it is supposed to change a person.

For the worst?

That MK's father is an entirely sympathetic figure? AFAIK, everyone agrees with that; I have no idea why anyone would not.

Meredith is the subject of the thread and entirely on topic sorry if I bored you with her parents agony


Or is it merely that AK was a while MK was practically a nun. Of course, neither claim is true, but that seems to be the implication of the excerpts Jade has selected for presentation.

Don’t shoot the messenger I didn’t write the articles or make witness statements or comment to the press. It is not like I dug up obscure articles. It is a major newspaper!


Just to be clear, I, too, appreciate Jade sharing her research. I just don't know what that particular collection of quotes is supposed to prove.

Not trying to prove a thing. It is a discussion board just discussing and bringing up points I think are interesting or revealing or my opinion.

Jade, I am not bored by expressions of sympathy toward MK's family and I'm sorry if it seemed I was faulting you for doing so. On the contrary, I 100% agree with you on that subject. My point was only that otto was applauding a new assembling of facts and I was trying to figure out what he considered newsworthy.

When any of us retrieves a collection of quotes from various sources, we act as "editors" of that material and, unless we are insane and acting randomly, we make selections based on some end goal. I was merely trying to figure out your end goal.

It appeared to me (and your response says nothing to contradict my impression) that you wanted to make a point about AK's excessive sexual activity v. MK's chasteness.

All of which would be fine, but your selection of quotes gives an erroneous impression. IIRC, both girls were sexually active, each with her boyfriend at the time of the murders. IMHO, neither is to be faulted for this.

Maybe AK had more total partners than MK, but we now know the 7 partners AK listed represented several years of romantic activity. To my knowledge, nobody has ever published a list of MK's total partners over the same period. (Nor should they, as it would be a gross invasion of her and her parents' privacy and, AFAIK, would have no relevance to the murder.) But, in fact, we have no way of knowing which young woman had more sexual partners during the same period of time.

I know you didn't invent the claim that MK was apprehensive about some of the men AK brought home, but that's not just a rumor, it's precisely the type of rumor that will tend to arise after a sexually related crime. So who knows if it is true?

Otherwise, the number of sex partners either had is nobody's business and irrelevant EXCEPT that the prosecutor invented his wild theory of "sex games gone wrong." Since there's really no proof of that theory (and even the prosecutor dropped it during the trial), I think both AK and MK were of the age of consent and their sex lives were their own private business.

 

[otto]

Once again, AK does not claim sexual assault in the first statement. She claims PL had sexual relations with MK. Not the same thing.

I accept your point that the police had other evidence by the time AK made a statement putting herself and PL at the scene of the crime. I do NOT accept that the preponderance of that evidence incriminated AK, must less PL.

The break in--if indeed it was staged and lacking competent and exhaustive forensic testimony, I see no reason to assume that it was--might have benefited any number of people. At the time of AK's coerced statement; ILE had no way of knowing whom.

The stolen phones, if anything, point away from AK (whom was she going to call without leaving cell phone records that would point back to her?) and toward a burglar who might hope to profit from stealing/using the phones.

The blood in the bathroom was minimal, as you know. Are you even sure it had been tested by the time AK made her statement implicating PL?

I don't know why MK's exsanguination, horrific as it was, points to any specific party.

***

The fact remains that ILE had not yet tested the forensic samples collected, samples which could and in fact did point to someone not even on their radar.

This is exactly what Johnnie Cochran famously called, "A rush to judgment." (Only this time, the phrase actually fits.)

***

Bottom line: however, when referring to any of Amanda's statements of that fateful night, it is only fair to refer to what she is recorded as having said.

It is disingenuous to attach all of your own conclusions so as to turn what is merely a witness statement into a confession to murder. (Of course, you are entitled to extrapolate from what she actually said to what you think it implies, but it isn't kosher to take your deductions and put them in AK's mouth, so to speak.)

But of course ... Knox brought a man to her cottage and thought nothing of it when that man entered her roommates bedroom, had sex, and then murdered her roommate. Therefore she's innocent?

All the known evidence about the crime scene made Knox's accusation against Patrick equivalent to her own confession.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Not even the judges believed Mignini's theory of a 'sex game gone wrong.' So why the need to cling to AK's sexual history prior to the murder is beyond my comprehension.

RG had sexual relations with MK.

That is a fact.

It most likely was not consensual.

RG is a murderer. That too is a fact.

 

[Mama Stinker]

"Professor Vinci's report says that there is evidence of DNA from all three suspects on the bra. Sollecito's legal team do not dispute its existence but insist it is there due to contamination."

Ref: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...laim-ex-boyfriends-lawyers.html#ixzz1EGqRXyAD

I actually feel bad for RS. If only he hadn't met her.

 

[Nova]

But of course ... Knox brought a man to her cottage and thought nothing of it when that man entered her roommates bedroom, had sex, and then murdered her roommate. Therefore she's innocent?

All the known evidence about the crime scene made Knox's accusation against Patrick equivalent to her own confession.

There's no point in continuing these word games.

AK did NOT confess in any of her statements to police.

You, otto, CONCLUDE that the statements she gave, in conjunction with other evidence acquired before and after the statements were given, point to AK's guilt. And you have every right to draw that conclusion.

But that doesn't make it AK's remarks "confessions."

At most, they might be labeled inculpatory statements. That's hardly the same thing.

 

[otto]

Read more about what Meredith's friends had to say:

"The American student accused of murdering Meredith Kercher bragged to friends about finding her body and 'didn't seem bothered' by her death, it has emerged.

The potentially damning account of Amanda Knox's behaviour on the day her 21-year-old housemate's body was discovered is given in a leaked statement to police by one of the murdered student's best friends.

Robyn Butterworth, who was on a university exchange from Leeds to the Italian town of Perugia with Miss Kercher, branded Knox "strange" and "over the top".

In a statement to police she told how after the tragedy was discovered Knox appeared curiously unfazed.

...

She told how Miss Kercher had argued with Knox because she never flushed the toilet.

Miss Butterworth's account of Knox came in a statement given to British police after she flew home from Italy.

She said: "Amanda's behaviour was always a little strange - even before Friday 2 November she seemed to be the extravagant type.

"I remember the first time we met we were in a restaurant having something to eat when all of a sudden she got up and started singing at the top of her voice – it was very strange and out of place."

She said Miss Kercher had told her she had "discussions" with Knox about the American's habit of bringing men back to their home.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...-didnt-seem-bothered-about-merediths-death.do

 

[Nova]

I actually feel bad for RS. If only he hadn't met her.

True. But the same can be said of AK: she might have been better off if she hadn't met RS.

And of course we'll all agree that MK would have been better off if she had never rented a room in that house.

 

[otto]

There's no point in continuing these word games.

AK did NOT confess in any of her statements to police.

You, otto, CONCLUDE that the statements she gave, in conjunction with other evidence acquired before and after the statements were given, point to AK's guilt. And you have every right to draw that conclusion.

But that doesn't make it AK's remarks "confessions."

At most, they might be labeled inculpatory statements. That's hardly the same thing.

It is not a word game. Knox confessed to bringing a man into the cottage and doing nothing while that man had sex with her roommate and then killed her. I am not able to view this confession in isolation, and cannot ignore the facts surrounding the murder such as the locked bedroom door, the staged break-in, etc.

 

[otto]

True. But the same can be said of AK: she might have been better off if she hadn't met RS.

And of course we'll all agree that MK would have been better off if she had never rented a room in that house.

Meredith was not murdered because she rented a room at the cottage, she was murdered because she met Knox.

 

[believe09]

Or Meredith was murdered because of RG. My two cents.

ETA: Let me catch up. AK made statements that Meredith and PL had sexual relations, but they didnt correct? And then she says he killed her, but he didnt as we know.

 

[Mama Stinker]

It is not a word game. Knox confessed to bringing a man into the cottage and doing nothing while that man had sex with her roommate and then killed her. I am not able to view this confession in isolation, and cannot ignore the facts surrounding the murder such as the locked bedroom door, the staged break-in, etc.

Yes but she named a man that wasn't there so......

 

[believe09]

Forgive my back to back posts, but I am trying to understand the debate. AK made these statements and PL was locked up but ultimately freed. Because he wasnt there at all.

So instead of PL, we are supposed to insert a suspect *here* and be outraged that she didnt do anything about a murder she witnessed or knew about...I am not being argumentative or flip...just trying to wrap my head around the debate.

 

[Mama Stinker]

Otto, I understand you believe AK is guilty but I don't but am open to looking at evidence with new eyes. My question to you is, what is the biggest indisputable piece of evidence that points to AK for you? Like I have stated, this case baffles me. Hope you aren't offended.

 

[believe09]

Mama, THANK YOU for asking that question!!!

 

[Mama Stinker]

Well believe09, this case just intrigues me. I am always looking for that aha, duh me moment when I get her guilt but so far I have not.
I wonder if a book will be written that is not pro Amanda, I would read that too.

 

[otto]

Otto, I understand you believe AK is guilty but I don't but am open to looking at evidence with new eyes. My question to you is, what is the biggest indisputable piece of evidence that points to AK for you? Like I have stated, this case baffles me. Hope you aren't offended.

There is abundant circumstantial and forensic evidence, and I don't believe that there is one piece of evidence that tipped the scales in the conviction.

 

[Mama Stinker]

There is abundant circumstantial and forensic evidence, and I don't believe that there is one piece of evidence that tipped the scales in the conviction.

I was meaning for you personally. Do you think all 3 were involved or just RG and AK?

 

[Allusonz]

The knife? And bra?

The knife has very low amounts of LCN DNA which Stefanoni kept over-riding the machine limits of too low too low. This was a very minute amount of DNA on this knife

The bra was collected 47 days after and here is an interview with an expert regarding both of these. I hope it helps you

Italy is the one of the only European countries that has not signed on to the Prum Convention, which establishes protocols and certification standards for DNA testing. Italy has no labs that meet the certification requirements applied throughout the rest of western europe

Italy's inability to meet certification requirements and continuing refusal to sign on to the convention have been topics of discussion within the EU for some time

These are only 9 of noted errors specific only to the LCN DNA

nine distinct ways Stefanoni's improv LCN DNA profiling was even worse than unproven and inadmissible LCN DNA profiling tests.
1. The DNA wasn't amplified enough; the very weak fluorescence was simply blown up.
2. The test site was not remote from other DNA tests to avoid contamination.
3. Specialized LCN-quality entry procedures to avoid contamination were not used.
4. A positive pressure environment was not maintained to exclude contamination.
5. Special LCN sterilization procedures to destroy errant DNA were not used.
6. The entire sample was consumed in a single test; no comparison of tests was possible.
7. No sample was retained for future reference. The test can never be reproduced.
8. No negative control tests were run to check for contamination.
9. No control tests to check for field contamination were performed


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vEFPZgW9HA

 

[Allusonz]

Thank you for this. This is where I am at and have been. There has been no smoking gun for me although implicating Patrick has been hard for me to forgive and forget, but still, it hasn't proved guilt to me.

What do others feel is the "best evidence" she is guilty?

01-25-2011, 03:19 PM
Malkmus
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 174

BBM

Respectfully Snipped

Fourth, a point of clarification: The text message from Amanda to Patrick saying "Ci vediamo piu tardi" would ONLY have been interpreted by the police as a definite rendez-vous between Amanda and Patrick. In Italian the phrase does not have the same ambiguity as in English when we say "See you later". I have confirmed this with several Italian speakers on a language forum. So, the interrogation was doubly confusing for Amanda I'm sure as she knew she had not written Patrick to meet her but what she had written did imply that and the police were cemented in their belief that she met up with him due to that mis-phrasing on her part. It was their insistence that her text could only mean that which led them down the rabbit hole that night.

I to was perplexed as to why PL. Malkmus though gave me a light bulb moment.

I hope Malkmus does not mind as I have brought his post over

The police took a text message on Amanda's phone out of context. The text from Amanda to Patrick, "see you later" was taken literally by investigators. In the US, this phrase, in the context that it was written, simply means goodbye. The police told Amanda the text meant that she planned on meeting Patrick on the night of the murder. The police also left out the second part of the message, "good night." When you put the phrase together, it explains the meaning even more clearly. Amanda had no intention of meeting Patrick that night. She was simply saying goodbye to Patrick in the text

AK said, "See you later.Good night." When that is translated to Italian it means that they are definately to meet thus this in the 1:45 statement "I replied to the message saying that we would meet immediately". I do not believe this was the intent of her message but for the ILE it had a completely different meaning.

The interrogators told Amanda to imagine she was at the cottage. She was told to imagine that Patrick committed the crime (because of the text message) thus you get the 1:45 statement which was typed in Italian of which she was not conversant. This is a common interrogation tactic used by LE around the world

http://injusticeinperugia.org/TheInterrogation.html

 

[Mama Stinker]

Ohhhh, they asked her to imagine Patrick there? They specifically said his name? I need to re-read the book again and go through all these posts again. I must have forgot they said his name or didn't register it. I did know about their interpretation of the text message though.