Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[trillian]

There were two prosecutors, and they were officers of the court ... representing the judicial system.

Don't mix Douglas Preston's crazy theories with the murder of Meredith Kercher.

I have not read Prestons book.

It is my understanding that Mignini claimed Narducci was part of a satanic sect.
It is also my understanding that he proposed a sacrificial rite at halloween theory in the Kercher case, which was thrown out.
Is this not correct? Do you think these were reasonable theories based on the evidence in each case?

These are not trick questions. They can be answered in a straightforward way.

 

[otto]

I have not read Prestons book.

It is my understanding that Mignini claimed Narducci was part of a satanic sect.
It is also my understanding that he proposed a sacrificial rite at halloween theory in the Kercher case, which was thrown out.
Is this not correct? Do you think these were reasonable theories based on the evidence in each case?

These are not trick questions. They can be answered in a straightforward way.

Douglas Preston was in Italy and stumbled onto some people that were following the Couple Murders. He was looking for work, and this looked, to him, like a book project. He was detained and questioned for interfering with a police investigation and has written about his experience ... wherein he discusses his satanic theory research.

A straight forward way to answer those questions would be to start a thread about the couple murders.

 

[trillian]

Douglas Preston was in Italy and stumbled onto some people that were following the Couple Murders. He was looking for work, and this looked, to him, like a book project. He was detained and questioned for interfering with a police investigation and has written about his experience ... wherein he discusses his satanic theory research.

A straight forward way to answer those questions would be to start a thread about the couple murders.

I'm not talking about Preston. Dont care about him. I'm asking about Mignini.

My question is: Is it true that Mignini theorized, in two cases, that a satanic rite or sect was involved? Yes or no?

I know for fact that the Kercher case is a yes. Was there reasonable evidence for such a theory?

I dont have anything other than news stories from 2006, which predate the Kercher murder, saying that he proposed it in the Narducci case.

 

[otto]

To throw AK under the bus and disassociate his client from the doomed-by-pre-trial-publicity Miss Knox?

MK's blood could be under the handle, which would put MK's blood on the knife for the first time. Or MK's DNA might NOT be on the handle, making it even less likely that the knife was used to stab her.

Raffaele's lawyer said that if the DNA was there, then it was due to contamination, just like the bra clasp.

 

[otto]

I'm not talking about Preston. Dont care about him. I'm asking about Mignini.

My question is: Is it true that Mignini theorized, in two cases, that a satanic rite or sect was involved? Yes or no?

I know for fact that the Kercher case is a yes. Was there reasonable evidence for such a theory?

I dont have anything other than news stories from 2006, which predate the Kercher murder, saying that he proposed it in the Narducci case.

Indeed there were two prosecutor actively participating in the tiral. Do you belive that one prosecutor was able to control the other while he presented duplicitous testimony.

 

[trillian]

Indeed there were two prosecutor actively participating in the tiral. Do you belive that one prosecutor was able to control the other while he presented duplicitous testimony.

I dont care if there were 100 prosecutors. Irrelevent. The fact that the theory was presented is all that matters.

I want to know if in either case, given the evidence, it was reasonable for Mignini to theorize that a satanic rite or sect was involved?

 

[otto]

I dont care if there were 100 prosecutors. Irrelevent. The fact that the theory was presented is all that matters.

I want to know if in either case, given the evidence, it was reasonable for Mignini to theorize that a satanic rite or sect was involved?

If you wish to focus on the prosecutors, then the picture needs to include all the officers of the court (both prosecutors). There were not 100 prosecutors ... just the usual two; neither appeared to have undue influence over the other.

The murder occured on the Day of the Dead. It first appeared to be a desperate Amanda trying to phone Meredith because Meridith was invited to the parties, and Raffaele and Amanda had nothing to do that night. That was Hallowe'en. The following night ... that is the night it is believed they got seriously twisted on drugs after turning off their phone around 8:35ish ... they apparently returned to the cottage and murdered Meredith, staged the scene, and stumbled upon it a couple of hours after waking up at 6 am (not 10 am as they claimed).

 

[claudicici]

which drugs?
I thought earlier it was posted that the only drug found in their system was weed.
I was assured they were tested on everything.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I feel sorry for those who are trying to get the plain facts in the case...you know...the true facts. Mostly what they're going to read on a cursory level are the hyperbolic imagined facts and scenarios, possibly even more ludicrous than the ones spun by Mignini in the first place.

It's going to take some digging to sweep away the cobwebs of intentional misstatements and conclusions and just look at the facts of the case, look at what exists (versus what is imagined to exist), look at the case with a fresh and objective eye, ignore rumors, ignore biases and feelings towards the defendants, ignore others' impressions and tabloid screeching, and simply examine the evidence and the known (verifiable) facts.

When one pushes away all the emotion surrounding the case and only concentrates on factual, verifiable evidence, it makes the task of learning about the case somewhat easier.

It may look daunting, but it can be done.

 

[otto]

which drugs?
I thought earlier it was posted that the only drug found in their system was weed.
I was assured they were tested on everything.

Whatever it was, it was enough to result in a syndrome called "I don't remember".

Gotta link for that testing?

 

[otto]

I feel sorry for those who are trying to get the plain facts in the case...you know...the true facts. Mostly what they're going to read on a cursory level are the hyperbolic imagined facts and scenarios, possibly even more ludicrous than the ones spun by Mignini in the first place.

It's going to take some digging to sweep away the cobwebs of intentional misstatements and conclusions and just look at the facts of the case, look at what exists (versus what is imagined to exist), look at the case with a fresh and objective eye, ignore rumors, ignore biases and feelings towards the defendants, ignore others' impressions and tabloid screeching, and simply examine the evidence and the known (verifiable) facts.

When one pushes away all the emotion surrounding the case and only concentrates on factual, verifiable evidence, it makes the task of learning about the case somewhat easier.

It may look daunting, but it can be done.

Can I assume that you've read all of the appeals, court testimony and judge report?

 

[Allusonz]

I have a few questions,since I did not read too much into this case.
I always trusted the system and thought Amanda and Rafael are just as guilty as Rudy.
I know she lied and I know about her strange antics but that may be where my prejudice comes into play.
I was wondering what is the concrete evidence that Amanda and Rafael were present at the time the murder happened?
Is it true that the assumed murder weapon (the kitchen knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle) does not match the actual cut in Meredith throat?
I thought there was video footage of Amanda returning to the cottage at the time of the murder (I don't think Rafael was on it),is that not so?
Were Amanda's and Rafael's cell phones really found in some yard? What is the explanation for that?
Sorry about all the questions,I'm just getting interested in this case I want to know some things because I'm planning on watching the movie in a couple of days and I may have had the wrong assumptions about this case.

pulled one of Malkmus posts over for you re the CCTV footage

02-08-2011, 09:46 PM
Malkmus
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 180

MArch 14, 2009


Quote:
Police inspector Mauro Barbadori told the court that the footage had been recovered in the hope that it would provide key information. He said: 'From the time on the film and the fact it is a female figure - the belief is that it is Meredith but it is very poor quality and we cannot say for definite.

Another still from the scan shows what appears to be a man walking towards the house Meredith shared with Amanda Knox
'Hypothetically speaking it is very possible that the figure seen is Meredith returning home after spending the evening at a friend's house.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz1DQDDJReL


Quote:
This week the Italian glossy Oggi posted stills from CCTV camera footage taken on November 1 beginning at 7:41. Reporter Giangavino Sulas says the photos show a figure dressed like Rudy Guede leaving the parking garage and heading over to the cottage--and then coming back about 20 minutes later. The young man in the wool hat does wear a "husky" coat very similar to the one Rudy was wearing when arrested. The figure is also wearing the same shoes that Rudy admits to wearing on the night of the murder: Nike Outbreak 2s, with the telltale white stripe on the bottom.

So, two people were sighted on CCTV, possibly Meredith and Rudy. I can't remember why they changed their minds from thinking it was Amanda to Meredith, but I think it had something to do with her clothing or the time.

 

[Allusonz]

I have a few questions,since I did not read too much into this case.
I always trusted the system and thought Amanda and Rafael are just as guilty as Rudy.
I know she lied and I know about her strange antics but that may be where my prejudice comes into play.
I was wondering what is the concrete evidence that Amanda and Rafael were present at the time the murder happened?
Is it true that the assumed murder weapon (the kitchen knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle) does not match the actual cut in Meredith throat?
I thought there was video footage of Amanda returning to the cottage at the time of the murder (I don't think Rafael was on it),is that not so?
Were Amanda's and Rafael's cell phones really found in some yard? What is the explanation for that?
Sorry about all the questions,I'm just getting interested in this case I want to know some things because I'm planning on watching the movie in a couple of days and I may have had the wrong assumptions about this case.

pulled one of mileys quotes over re drug usage

you are right only trace amounts of cannablis was found

02-10-2011, 01:43 AM
miley
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 203

brought over from the last thread - apologize for the late response

Quote:
Salem: IIRC hair testing is not typically accepted as "scientific" in American courts (I could be wrong here). How do we know that A & R had their hair tested? Is that in the docs somewhere and I just missed it?

Quote:
Salem: Okay - I see. The hair testing is just info, but totally unrelated to this case, right? In this case, A & R were never tested for cocaine use?
And yes, I agree, it would have been up to the prosecution to prove any drug use.

Quote:
flourish:
I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again: was she ever given a hair drug test?
How long do benzos (or its metabolites or other evidence of its use) stay in the hair?

Quote:
flourish: I must have missed something in our previous conversations about the testing. I was under the impression that she was given one urine test several days after the murder and that was that.
When did the blood test(s) occur?

I'm not sure when the tests were given, but it looks like there were several - like Allisonz said, she was given an hiv test in prison

F. Sfarzo and others refer to Amanda & Raffaele being drug tested but testing for drugs through "hair samples" is specifically mentioned by Barbie N. in her book - this is why I googled 'hair' drug testing, the information I posted is from random info./sites and unrelated to the case in that sense.

Otto might have to clarify - the book says something like (referring to either A or R, I'm not sure) hair samples were taken and a very slight trace amount of a narcotic was detected (she immediately reiterates the fact that the amount was so trivial it was unidentifiable) since she mentions this, I'm able to say with almost 100% certainty she would've said if cocaine or another drug had been detected. (I don't know her source and no other journalist or judge, that I've come across, says this)

Also, if you consider judge massei's report, he only refers to their use of cannabis, no other drugs mentioned.

more...
(bolding by me)
(the FBI guy) Steve Moore:
Later, when I tried to prove Amanda’s guilt to my wife Michelle, I searched for proof of the wild sex party, the hard-drug use and the bleach purchase. I found that no such proof existed. The prosecution floated those stories to the press, yet had to know or at least find out at some point that those things had never happened. This is also where my suspicion began.
http://www.westseattleherald.com/201...-steve-?page=8

Perugia Shock talking about how the drug test discredits the Italian article that recently claimed Amanda had phone contact (and possible sex) with a cocaine dealer on the days surrouding Meredith's death
Frank Sfarzo:
What importance could this report have? Technically none at all, since Amanda basically tested negative for drugs (only low traces of cannabis), therefore, didn’t need rehab therapy in jail. So useless you’re trying to say that she was a drug addict when it’s already acknowledged she was not.
And then the sex: not a crime. So why was it important for the police (not for a tabloid) to state she had sex with this guy? She presumably had sex, they wrote. Did she have sex with this guy or not? They seem to care a lot about this topic. But they don’t know, they can only presume...
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/20...-with-guy.html


Frank mentions blood/urine test here:
Indeed the right drug-test is a neuro-psychological test which basically checks memory and attention and, according to him, reveals if you are under cannabis effect better than blood/urine analysis. http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html

 

[Allusonz]

I have a few questions,since I did not read too much into this case.
I always trusted the system and thought Amanda and Rafael are just as guilty as Rudy.
I know she lied and I know about her strange antics but that may be where my prejudice comes into play.
I was wondering what is the concrete evidence that Amanda and Rafael were present at the time the murder happened?
Is it true that the assumed murder weapon (the kitchen knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle) does not match the actual cut in Meredith throat?
I thought there was video footage of Amanda returning to the cottage at the time of the murder (I don't think Rafael was on it),is that not so?
Were Amanda's and Rafael's cell phones really found in some yard? What is the explanation for that?
Sorry about all the questions,I'm just getting interested in this case I want to know some things because I'm planning on watching the movie in a couple of days and I may have had the wrong assumptions about this case.

seems some people are trying to muddy the water a bit

no it was not their cell phones that were found it was MK's 2 cell phones that were recovered

unfortunately the police did not seal this area off once she was found to see if the keys are cards were also in that area

that would be forensics 101 as it would now be considered to be a supplemental crime scene

 

[Allusonz]

which drugs?
I thought earlier it was posted that the only drug found in their system was weed.
I was assured they were tested on everything.

Amanda had both blood and urine tests and only trace amounts of cannabis was found in her system. There is misinformation with respect to the testing of cocaine. The drug itself does not stay in your system as long as the metabolite Although they test for cocaine they also test for benzoylegonine which stays in your system much longer as explained below. If she had ingested cocaine or been a habitual user it would of been all over every media outlet and tabloid immaginable. Xanax is also a benzoylegonine

As per perugiashock below

Technically none at all, since Amanda basically tested negative for drugs (only low traces of cannabis), therefore, didn’t need rehab therapy in jail. So useless you’re trying to say that she was a drug addict when it’s already acknowledged she was not.

http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?e...AF0qelP71yVA--

 

[Allusonz]

The town of Perugia, with a high student population, cheered when the verdict was announced. People take their laws and judicial system seriously.

Perugia has a population of 163,000 as of 2007 IIRC and I watched the TV coverage outside and watched the news footage and can guarantee there were not 163,000 people outside that court room

That figure does NOT include the students that attend the universities

 

[Allusonz]

If you wish to focus on the prosecutors, then the picture needs to include all the officers of the court (both prosecutors). There were not 100 prosecutors ... just the usual two; neither appeared to have undue influence over the other.

The murder occured on the Day of the Dead. It first appeared to be a desperate Amanda trying to phone Meredith because Meridith was invited to the parties, and Raffaele and Amanda had nothing to do that night. That was Hallowe'en. The following night ... that is the night it is believed they got seriously twisted on drugs after turning off their phone around 8:35ish ... they apparently returned to the cottage and murdered Meredith, staged the scene, and stumbled upon it a couple of hours after waking up at 6 am (not 10 am as they claimed).

if the EVIDENCE does not equal the HYPOTHESIS then it is NOT GUILTY

a rewording of Aristotle

 

[Allusonz]

I have a few questions,since I did not read too much into this case.
I always trusted the system and thought Amanda and Rafael are just as guilty as Rudy.
I know she lied and I know about her strange antics but that may be where my prejudice comes into play.
I was wondering what is the concrete evidence that Amanda and Rafael were present at the time the murder happened?
Is it true that the assumed murder weapon (the kitchen knife with Amanda's DNA on the handle) does not match the actual cut in Meredith throat?
I thought there was video footage of Amanda returning to the cottage at the time of the murder (I don't think Rafael was on it),is that not so?
Were Amanda's and Rafael's cell phones really found in some yard? What is the explanation for that?
Sorry about all the questions,I'm just getting interested in this case I want to know some things because I'm planning on watching the movie in a couple of days and I may have had the wrong assumptions about this case.

a link regarding the knife and bra clasp which i believe is considered by some to be the 2 main pieces of DNA evidence against them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vEFPZgW9HA

 

[otto]

Amanda had both blood and urine tests and only trace amounts of cannabis was found in her system. There is misinformation with respect to the testing of cocaine. The drug itself does not stay in your system as long as the metabolite Although they test for cocaine they also test for benzoylegonine which stays in your system much longer as explained below. If she had ingested cocaine or been a habitual user it would of been all over every media outlet and tabloid immaginable. Xanax is also a benzoylegonine

As per perugiashock below

Technically none at all, since Amanda basically tested negative for drugs (only low traces of cannabis), therefore, didn’t need rehab therapy in jail. So useless you’re trying to say that she was a drug addict when it’s already acknowledged she was not.

http://74.6.117.48/search/srpcache?e...AF0qelP71yVA--

Knox and Sollecito said that they smoked a lot of hashish on the night of the murder. Are we now thinking that they lied about this too?

 

[Allusonz]

Whatever it was, it was enough to result in a syndrome called "I don't remember".

Gotta link for that testing?

so i see