Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[SMK]

You are comparing a long time prosecutor with a fictional writer. I think I rather believe the prosecutor. All these claims about priests and psychics are made up by the fictional writer.

If Preston really is fabricating, he needs long term therapy, and 30 days in the county jail.

 

[sherlockh]

Is there an earlier similar case to this "sex game" - remotely similar?

"There is nothing new under the sun. It has all been done before." -Sherlock Holmes

Sexual assaults happen all the time unfortunately. If that is a game for the one who is doing the assault I don't know. I wouldn't use the word game, and I don't think it was used anymore later.

 

[Madeleine74]

A fictional writer vs a known liar/convicted obstructor of justice.

Yep, I know who I'm placing my trust in.

hint: not the prosecutor who has personally caused innocent people to be jailed, whose handling of cases should be without question, spotless, who fails in that responsibility.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

You are comparing a long time prosecutor with a fictional writer. I think I rather believe the prosecutor. All these claims about priests and psychics are made up by the fictional writer.

Interesting logic. "Reliable sources" are sometimes not. It is very easy to discredit Mignini. He has been convicted of crimes! That is more an indicator of his reliability than his profession.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Sexual assaults happen all the time unfortunately. If that is a game for the one who is doing the assault I don't know. I wouldn't use the word game, and I don't think it was used anymore later.

No, no, that is not what I asked for. I asked for a multi-offender sex game/murder with a woman directly involved in the murder, ring leader or not. Call it a game, call it whatever you want. When has it happened before?

 

[Allusonz]

I can link you to two articles by a news website that say he was present. Can you link me to one that says he was not?

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/05/16/news/update-article-amanda-knoxs-tv-interview-inaccurate

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/02/19/news/parents-amanda-knox-indicted-libel-supporters-cry

Just to add he as well admitted to being there in his CNN interview of which the transcripts are available. Initially it was said that they called him when in fact he was already at the police station

 

[sherlockh]

He was present at the 5:45 interrogation however, which is the important one as that is where the "confession" was gotten.

This is what happened in that interrogation:

Well, that is what I said. He was there during her 2nd statement. It was a spontaneous one. No interrogation there. The first one was where she was interrogated (by the police). In both statements she accused her boss, Patrick. Again confirming her statements in an written 'gift' later at about 8am. So that is 3 times she accused him. Two spontaneous statements, and only once with interrogation. No wonder she was convicted for this.

 

[SMK]

As pointed out on JREF - Stephanie Kercher: Perhaps Maresca will be fired?

"We have not got a solicitor in this country at the moment. It is a possibility as there are other routes the family may now take. We are just trying to find the truth."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8803239/Amanda-Knox-verdict-latest.html

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Well, that is what I said. He was there during her 2nd statement. It was a spontaneous one. No interrogation there. The first one was where she was interrogated (by the police). In both statements she accused her boss, Patrick. Again confirming her statements in an written 'gift' later at about 8am. So that is 3 times she accused him. Two spontaneous statements, and only once with interrogation. No wonder she was convicted for this.

How do you know there was no interrogation when Mignini was present? I see in court where he claims he was not present in the 1:45 one (and his credibility is questionable regarding that - has this been proven to be true?)

 

[Allusonz]

If Preston really is fabricating, he needs long term therapy, and 30 days in the county jail.

As well in the CNN interview Mignini was asked about Preston. I am going on memory here with respect to the times but Mignini first said about 20 minutes, then when pressed went maybe an hour, when pressed further said he was not looking at the clock.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well, that is what I said. He was there during her 2nd statement. It was a spontaneous one. No interrogation there. The first one was where she was interrogated (by the police). In both statements she accused her boss, Patrick. Again confirming her statements in an written 'gift' later at about 8am. So that is 3 times she accused him. Two spontaneous statements, and only once with interrogation. No wonder she was convicted for this.

Question: were any of us there to hear what was said, verbatim, in person? Were there recordings made and available?

No? Then that is at best a guess based on 3rd/4th hand repeating, at a minimum, and at worst a false rumor, each without verification.

Simply not good enough to put someone away.

 

[sherlockh]

How do you know there was no interrogation when Mignini was present? I see in court where he claims he was not present in the 1:45 one (and his credibility is questionable regarding that - has this been proven to be true?)

That is why they call it spontaneous.

 

[sherlockh]

Question: were any of us there to hear what was said, verbatim, in person? Were there recordings made and available?

No? Then that is at best a guess based on 3rd/4th hand repeating, at a minimum, and at worst a false rumor, each without verification.

Simply not good enough to put someone away.

Written police statements are not valid unless there is a recording? Are you claiming that this court made a huge error?

 

[SMK]

No, no, that is not what I asked for. I asked for a multi-offender sex game/murder with a woman directly involved in the murder, ring leader or not. Call it a game, call it whatever you want. When has it happened before?

Some statistical info, hard to decipher with regard to this case: And oddly, seems the only thing I could find with multiple attackers is from the mid-90s:

Offender Characteristics
In single-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations, Whites and Blacks were victimized most often by members of their own race (Whites by Whites, 78.4%; Blacks by Blacks, 83.5%).

Of the 39,989 multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations in 1994, 84.8% involved only male offenders, and 6.8% involved male and female offenders.

Female-only offenders were involved in 8.4% of victimizations.


Almost half of all multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations had no age-of-offender distinction (44.8%), another 24% were committed by 12-20 year olds, and 15.2% by 21-29 year olds. Only 5.9% of those committed were by offenders 30 years of age and older. The age of 10.2% of victimizations by multiple-offenders was not known.

Forty-eight percent of all rapes/sexual assaults in 1994 were committed by an offender perceived to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, 27.9% were perceived to be not on drugs or alcohol, and in 23.9% of the incidents the use of drugs or alcohol was not known or could not be ascertained.
Half of all multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations (49.4%) were committed by Whites, 29.5% by Blacks, 15.5% by mixed races, and 5.7% by other races than White or Black. Rates were not provided to allow for comparisons among the races.

Of the multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations, 76% were committed by strangers. http://www.nmcsap.org/statistics.html#cd

 

[HatesSociopaths]

That is why they call it spontaneous.

AK: Frankly, I didn't have good relations with the police after that period,
nor with the pubblico ministero, because he also had suggested declarations
that got written down in the declarations. I didn't know where to turn.
I felt better talking to my defense than to the police.

Mignini was involved in gaining these "spontaneous" declarations, per Amanda.


http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Some statistical info, hard to decipher with regard to this case: And oddly, seems the only thing I could find with multiple attackers is from the mid-90s:

Offender Characteristics
In single-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations, Whites and Blacks were victimized most often by members of their own race (Whites by Whites, 78.4%; Blacks by Blacks, 83.5%).

Of the 39,989 multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations in 1994, 84.8% involved only male offenders, and 6.8% involved male and female offenders.

Female-only offenders were involved in 8.4% of victimizations.


Almost half of all multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations had no age-of-offender distinction (44.8%), another 24% were committed by 12-20 year olds, and 15.2% by 21-29 year olds. Only 5.9% of those committed were by offenders 30 years of age and older. The age of 10.2% of victimizations by multiple-offenders was not known.

Forty-eight percent of all rapes/sexual assaults in 1994 were committed by an offender perceived to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, 27.9% were perceived to be not on drugs or alcohol, and in 23.9% of the incidents the use of drugs or alcohol was not known or could not be ascertained.
Half of all multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations (49.4%) were committed by Whites, 29.5% by Blacks, 15.5% by mixed races, and 5.7% by other races than White or Black. Rates were not provided to allow for comparisons among the races.

Of the multiple-offender rape/sexual assault victimizations, 76% were committed by strangers. http://www.nmcsap.org/statistics.html#cd

Thanks. Any of those multi-offender assaults involve a murder with the woman one of the murderers?

 

[Madeleine74]

Written police statements are not valid unless there is a recording? Are you claiming that this court made a huge error?

The police did not follow their own protocol, which is to record. The interrogation was conducted without recording it. We have no way of knowing what was really said, how it was said, or any of the context.

It's important to look at the physical evidence first to see if statements corroborate or not. The physical evidence was impeached. The investigation was shoddy by International standards (and confirmed by independent Italian scientists).

The statements also are not corroborated. Mignini's word means nothing.

 

[SMK]

Thanks. Any of those multi-offender assaults involve a murder with the woman the murderer?

That I do not know. Personally, I have never heard of any such case, and I did work in the past which required a great deal of research on it.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Thanks. Any of those multi-offender assaults involve a murder with the woman one of the murderers?

That I do not know. Personally, I have never heard of any such case, and I did work in the past which required a great deal of research on it.

Karla Homolka? But even there, if I recall correctly, there's some dispute whether she was actually the one murdering or not.

 

[Allusonz]

The Italian Supreme Court found that AK's rights were violated as she was not informed of her legal rights, did not appoint her a lawyer, and did not provide her with a proper interpreter thus they ruled that the signed statements were not admissible.

What they are stating is that there was misconduct on behalf of the police and/or prosecutor