Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

[dgfred]

If (repeat if) we take AK out of the entire episode, would everyone still be so upset with the verdict if it was say... RS, RG, and another male???

Is it more that she is an American or is it that she is a decent looking female?

Is it because of the person involved, the evidence presented, or any problems with the evidence that is sooo controversial in this case?

Or is it just an interesting case? Just wondering what makes this case so polarized.

 

[Tizzle]

If (repeat if) we take AK out of the entire episode, would everyone still be so upset with the verdict if it was say... RS, RG, and another male???

Raf is innocent just like Amanda is, IMO. They were together at his apartment. I believe this version.

RG was there at the moment MK was bleeding to death, there is no denying that. Even if he really was in the bathroom, like he said, he didn't call for help for Meredith and he knew she was bleeding from her neck, he admits this. I'm just fine with RG being convicted, I believe he is where he belongs and only wish he was going to remain there for the rest of his natural life. He is bad news.

As far as another male goes, I'm not sure. I would be okay with another person being prosecuted and convicted as long as the prosecution had REAL evidence placing them at the scene, like they did for RG.

Is it more that she is an American or is it that she is a decent looking female?

Neither of these things have anything to do with my being on the pro-defense side. Are these the reasons that you think she is guilty? Why would you think these would be reasons that make us feel she is innocent? I can't speak for others but I assure you, I have a little more depth than that.

Is it because of the person involved, the evidence presented, or any problems with the evidence that is sooo controversial in this case?

Yes, some of the people involved. Yes and Yes.

Or is it just an interesting case? Just wondering what makes this case so polarized.

Interesting, yes. I think the polarization comes from bad and false leaks of information from LE to the press. Then the press, in turn, 'blowing up' and spinning little extras into the said leak and, last but not least, the public's perception of the press' version of the leak. Like, the "snowball effect". Basically, I think it comes down to whether you want to base your opinion on rumor/gossip or whether you want to base your opinion on fact/hard evidence. There's the polarity, IMO.

Amanda & Raf were railroaded because Mignini didn't want to admit he made a mistake. That is what he based this case on, not wanting to admit that he had, again, abused his power of office. He created this circus. It will catch up to him. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. The world is watching more now and learning the truth. His dirty tactics are so obvious that it would be funny if he wasn't stealing the young lives of two innocent people. Some people are okay with that. I'm not.

 

[dgfred]

Thanks for your answers, but please know the questions were not meant to antagonize... just for information.

 

[Tizzle]

Thanks for your answers, but please know the questions were not meant to antagonize... just for information.

BBM

Nor were my answers.
Just because we don't agree here, it doesn't mean we won't or don't elsewhere.

 

[SleuthyGal]

My issue is that I don't have enough (good/solid) info to be able to make a determination if RS & AK are also guilty. I see things that point in both directions. I do believe RG is guilty. I'm not a FOA and have no personal feelings towards her or RS or any of them.

I want to know what happened.

And I want to get my hands onto information that I cannot, so I can make a determination. I'm stuck in limbo and I don't like being stuck. It makes me cranky.

 

[dgfred]

Why would BOTH AK and RS say that RS tried to knock down MK's door before the postal police got there?

*Was it to try and explain away the existing damage to the door???????

Why break down the door without trying to call MK's phones? They would be able to hear the phones ringing on the other side of the door and would realize MK was in some sort of trouble. Or did they already know?

Was it because they tried to break it down to get the lamp/clean more?

Is it possible MK was locked in there the night before and had tried to 'break out'? This would explain the witness (Kom...) saying he heard 'banging' from the cottage while all three accused were outside the cottage.

I'm almost positive that RS (maybe AK too) could have knocked the door in with effort... Filomena's male friend only took two kicks to break it in.

Were their statements only to cover up damage to the door done previously?

The door would be MUCH more difficult to break down from the inside... with the frame also causing resistance.

It seems to me (since their stories/alibis are not the same in many areas) that these statements where both state the same facts are for an unknown reason... like the 'scootching' on the bathmat story by AK. What think???

 

[dgfred]

I understand the problems with Mignini that some have, but imo he will NOT be in any trouble (jail) regarding this matter.

I believe I might have been wrong regarding this matter :slap: ...

Y'all are going to have a field day with this... understand completely though.

 

[dgfred]

I believe this is the 2nd stage of these allegations/charges after Mignini was acquitted in the 1st stage and the prosecution appealed. I guess the 3rd stage would be to go to some sort of 'Supreme Court' in Italy. In this 2nd stage he was given 1yr and 4mos suspended sentence.

 

[kemo]

dgfred,

Where did you get this information about the damage to the door? This is new to me.

 

[dgfred]

dgfred,

Where did you get this information about the damage to the door? This is new to me.

Which part are you referring to kemo?

 

[Tizzle]

Amanda Knox prosecutor convicted
Giuliano Mignini, the chief prosecutor in the Meredith Kercher trial, has been convicted of abuse of office and bugging the phones of journalists.

Mr Mignini, who succeeded in having the American student Amanda Knox jailed for 26 years for murdering her British flatmate in Perugia in 2007, was convicted in relation to a separate case regarding a notorious serial killer known as the Monster of Florence.

He was sentenced by a Florence court to a year and four months in prison, but will remain free pending the two stages of appeal available to him under Italian law and will be allowed to continue working.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The court in Florence also convicted on similar charges Michele Giuttari, the police officer who led the investigation into the Monster of Florence murders.

Now a successful crime novelist, he was sentenced to 18 months in jail but is also expected to appeal.

Between 1968 and 1985 a serial killer attacked more than a dozen young lovers in cars in the countryside around Florence, shooting or hacking them to death. The murderer was never caught. The killings inspired Thomas Harris's best-selling book Hannibal.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/7054739/Amanda-Knox-prosecutor-convicted.html

Amanda Knox prosecutor convicted of abuse of office

FLORENCE, Italy -- Giuliano Mignini, the lead investigator who successfully prosecuted Seattle native Amanda Knox of murder, was convicted Friday in Florence of abuse of office.

Although cleared of the main charge against him, the remaining charges resulted in a suspended sentence of one year and four months.

A judge decided that Mignini abused his office by wiretapping several journalists and police officials.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/414529_knox22.html?source=mypi

I figured his conviction was upon us because of the perfectly timed notice to Amanda that they had concluded the slander investigation against her just 2 days ago. Just like he had her parents charged with slander the day before the defense was to make their closing arguments. Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors. His expertise is in attracting attention from where it should be. The King of Distractions. SO transparent, IMO.

 

[ohiogirl]

Why would BOTH AK and RS say that RS tried to knock down MK's door before the postal police got there?

*Was it to try and explain away the existing damage to the door???????

Why break down the door without trying to call MK's phones? They would be able to hear the phones ringing on the other side of the door and would realize MK was in some sort of trouble. Or did they already know?

Was it because they tried to break it down to get the lamp/clean more?

Is it possible MK was locked in there the night before and had tried to 'break out'? This would explain the witness (Kom...) saying he heard 'banging' from the cottage while all three accused were outside the cottage.

I'm almost positive that RS (maybe AK too) could have knocked the door in with effort... Filomena's male friend only took two kicks to break it in.

Were their statements only to cover up damage to the door done previously?

The door would be MUCH more difficult to break down from the inside... with the frame also causing resistance.

It seems to me (since their stories/alibis are not the same in many areas) that these statements where both state the same facts are for an unknown reason... like the 'scootching' on the bathmat story by AK. What think???

I thought Meredith's phone wasn't there? Maybe they did call her? Do we know?

 

[dgfred]

I thought Meredith's phone wasn't there? Maybe they did call her? Do we know?

It wasn't. Well she claimed to have tried to call earlier, one call for about 15 seconds and the other two for 3 and 4 seconds each. Neither her or RS claimed to call after that at the cottage.

 

[miley]

I thought Meredith's phone wasn't there? Maybe they did call her? Do we know?

Meredith's phones weren't there. and yes, Amanda had tried to call Meredith several times and there was no answer.

dgfred, the lady found one of meredith's phones in her yard and then she took it to the police station, her daughter then found meredith's other phone... remember?

the police were investigating the b. threat. At some point the phones were turned off.

(while filomenia and friends were on their way) RS tried to break down the door - he wasn't strong enough. it took filomenis's b.friend several times (and a lot of force) to finally get it open --- arguments have been made that this could have been how RS's dna (left while trying to push the door open) "flew" into the room since the door opened from the inside.

 

[dgfred]

Meredith's phones weren't there. and yes, Amanda had tried to call Meredith several times and there was no answer.

dgfred, the lady found one of meredith's phones in her yard and then she took it to the police station, her daughter then found meredith's other phone... remember?

the police were investigating the b. threat. At some point the phones were turned off.

(while filomenia and friends were on their way) RS tried to break down the door - he wasn't strong enough. it took filomenis's b.friend several times (and a lot of force) to finally get it open --- arguments have been made that this could have been how RS's dna (left while trying to push the door open) "flew" into the room since the door opened from the inside.

Yes I know all of that. I'm saying they did NOT try to call before trying to bust open the door. I think they knew already the phones were not in there so no need to even try to call them.
*If you were there and suspected your friend behind that door in trouble... would not one of the first things you would do would be to call her phones to see if you can hear them ringing on the other side of the door??? This they did not do!
I also disagree with you about the force used for the door being opened by Filomena's boyfriend... and think that RS could have done this just as well if REALLY determined... maybe even AK.

 

[miley]

Yes I know all of that. I'm saying they did NOT try to call before trying to bust open the door. I think they knew already the phones were not in there so no need to even try to call them.
*If you were there and suspected your friend behind that door in trouble... would not one of the first things you would do would be to call her phones to see if you can hear them ringing on the other side of the door??? This they did not do!

amanda could have tried, and the police could have already turned it off at the station - at this point only one of the phones was found... so, did the police try to call the other phone, what about filomenia or her bf?

I also disagree with you about the force used for the door being opened by Filomena's boyfriend... and think that RS could have done this just as well if REALLY determined... maybe even AK.

that's absurd

 

[Isabella]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Although cleared of the main charge against him, the remaining charges resulted in a suspended sentence of one year and four months.

So he was in fact CLEARED of the main charges against him

It seems to me he was trying to get justice for a guy who had been murdered after it had been stated he wasnt murdered. All in all his "conviction" seems far less severe than Amandas

 

[Isabella]

amanda could have tried, and the police could have already turned it off at the station - at this point only one of the phones was found... so, did the police try to call the other phone, what about filomenia or her bf?



that's absurd

Why is it absurd? I am only 5 ft and could kick a door down if i really needed to. It was only a bedroom door after all.

 

[Tizzle]

>>snipped<<
It seems to me he was trying to get justice for a guy who had been murdered after it had been stated he wasnt murdered. All in all his "conviction" seems far less severe than Amandas

BBM

Mignini was NOT 'trying to get justice for a guy' that had been murdered. He was trying to pin on Mario Spezi, the murder of Frank Narducci, a man that was Mignini's prime suspect in the Monster of Florence serial killings. Mignini doesn't like it when people disagree with his theories. I know, BIG surprise, eh?
Perhaps a little research on the subject would be more useful than what it 'seems' to be.

2 page article:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-01/the-other-murders-that-could-save-her/
The crux of the misconduct charges against the two men is that Mignini, the investigating magistrate, gave Police Chief Giuttari inappropriate assistance by ordering up a criminal analysis that should properly have been requested and paid for by the police. This transpired during the investigation of Francesco Narducci, a Perugian doctor who mysteriously floated to the surface of Lake Trasimeno in 1985 and who became Mignini&#8217;s prime suspect in the Monster killings. But after hours of deliberation, the verdict for Mignini and Giuttari was postponed. The presiding judge asked to hear four more witnesses to clarify various points about the investigation. The next court date is set for September.

The case has been closely watched in both Italy and the United States. American supporters of Amanda Knox were hoping for a guilty verdict to validate their conviction that Mignini is a rogue prosecutor; many Italians were hoping a not-guilty verdict would vindicate their judicial system. Neither side got their wish.

In Knox&#8217;s hometown of Seattle, there has been a steady drumbeat of outrage about Mignini&#8212;how, Knox's supporters asked, could a prosecutor under investigation for misconduct be allowed to lead one of the country&#8217;s most notorious murder trials? But the Mignini case is not necessarily anomalous. In reality, active prosecutors are often under investigation in Italy. Unlike in the United States, even the most banal accusations against anyone in power usually leads to trial here, clogging the country&#8217;s courtrooms with tedious disputes that cast a negative light on the entire judicial system. Italian prosecutors and investigators have less leeway than their American counterparts, so bending the rules is often part of criminal investigations. Earlier this year, Mignini was cleared of other charges against him, including wiretapping journalists.
BBM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11881070/
Before returning to his home in Bristol, Maine, Preston was ordered to answer questions from a prosecutor in the murder probe. By the time the two-hour questioning was over, he said he was under investigation for giving false statements.

&#8220;I felt like I had stumbled into one of my novels,&#8221; said Preston, whose recent thriller co-authored with Lincoln Child, &#8220;Dance of Death,&#8221; features a character framed as a serial murderer.

Preston, 49, has written several thrillers and horror novels, including &#8220;Relic,&#8221; co-authored with Child, and &#8220;Tyrannosaur Canyon.&#8221;

During the interrogation, prosecutor Giuliano Mignini played back wiretapped conversations between Preston and Spezi, the author said.

&#8220;For some reason, he felt our conversation included code words,&#8221; Preston told The Associated Press in an interview earlier this week from his home in Maine. &#8220;At one point, we had said we would go for a walk and he demanded to know what we really meant by that.&#8221; Preston said that Spezi took him to an abandoned villa near Florence where Spezi believed a gun used to shoot the victims had been hidden.

Mignini refused to comment, citing judicial secrecy.

Michele Giuttari, who heads the police unit investigating the serial murders, said that Preston had engaged in &#8220;criminal conduct&#8221; during his stay. He contested Preston&#8217;s reconstruction of the interrogation, but declined to give details. &#8220;The only true thing is that [Preston] left the interrogation as a person under investigation&#8221; for giving false statements, Giuttari said.
BBM

This article shows that Mignini's abuse is habitual and it also shows that he works in concert with other LE, aka, CORRUPTION. Also similar in that Preston is American and Spezi is Italian, like Knox and Sollecito. This article is from 2006, a year and a half prior to MK's untimely death. Sounds very similar to what Amanda has described that she experienced. Common thread? Giuliano Mignini and his 'pride'.

 

[Isabella]

The cases dont sound remotely similar to me and again..Migini was CLEARED of the main charges against him.

IMO whatever Migini did or didnt do the facts of the case dont change and Amanda was found guilty of Merediths murder.