Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[JulieR]

Has anyone heard anything from friends of David and Tiffany?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I rarely post but I've been following this story and I just wanted to add my opinion about TH's behavior. I was involved in a car accident that killed my boyfriend years ago. I stayed with him until help arrived and I knew he was dead. From that moment on, I was a different person. I, too was like Tiffany and could recite what happened that day without emotion. Friends & family asked me so many questions about what happened that I could tell the story like it was nothing. Several months later I began having terrible panic attacks and was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I am a very emotional person but for some reason I was trying to block out what had happened and it took a toll on me. I was trying to be strong. I think people think they know how they would act if something traumatic happened to them but the truth is, you don't know until you go through it. I'm not sure if I believe Tiffany but I don't find her behavior odd at all...everyone handles things differently. Just my opinion. :innocent:

Problem is...she's not "without emotion." She is positively bubbly at times.

 

[Tuffy]

Has anyone heard anything from friends of David and Tiffany?

Good question, Julie. I am still wondering about phones too. I really would have thought that they would take their phones with them. I'm guessing he had the cameras with him too.

It's funny that with all the talk and interviews, none of that has been mentioned. (or did I just miss it?)

 

[LaLaw2000]

I admire and applaud you for sticking by your guns, in the face of so many people disagreeing with you -- not an easy thing to do!

You're the kind of friend I want to have on my side!

Thank you, oh_gal! LOL, I think!

Yep, I am sticking to my guns here. I read every post and always respect everyones' opinions, but I have mine too.

P.S.

Let me know if you ever get in trouble and I will go down swinging for you if I believe you!

 

[Joe Friday]

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/young-118013-zapata-hartley.html

Tiffany Young-Hartley: 'No, I will not go to Mexico'


ZAPATA — The governor of the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, Eugenio Hernandez Flores, has invited Tiffany Young-Hartley to go to Miguel Aleman and file a formal complaint about the alleged slaying of her husband, David Michael Hartley, on the Mexican side of Falcon Reservoir.

(Snipped)

 

[IWannaKnow]

Thanks for that Joe Friday. Also from that link:

Ruben Dario Rios Lopez, spokesman for the Tamaulipas attorney general, reiterated that his office needs more details from Young-Hartley about what happened in the Sept. 30 incident.

He assured that a security escort would be provided to her while in Mexico.

"We guarantee her safety," he said Tuesday after confirming that the Tamaulipas state police commander heading the investitgation into her husband's disappearance had been killed in the same region where he wants Young-Hartley to go.

hmmmmmmmmm. I think I would pass on that as well.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Thanks for that Joe Friday. Also from that link:

"We guarantee her safety," he said Tuesday after confirming that the Tamaulipas state police commander heading the investitgation into her husband's disappearance had been killed in the same region where he wants Young-Hartley to go. hmmmmmmmmm. I think I would pass on that as well.

I heard on CNN today while I was at home for lunch that they cut off his head and had it delivered somewhere.

Sorry, I have not been following this case here much lately.
Has anybody else heard this????

 

[LaLaw2000]

Just because someone lives or lived in Mexico or goes back and forth to Mexico doesn't mean they buy, take, or associate with the drug cartel. Gee, I've been to Mexico probably a dozen times in the past 15 years and I've never KNOWINGLY talked to anyone belonging to a drug cartel.

David's company had him living in Mexico when they first moved to that area for his job. It was after the current president took office and started his campaign to attempt to defeat the drug cartels, that the violence increased until David's company asked them to move back over the border. I believe part of his employment duties included him having to travel back and forth across the border.

I know people who have homes in Mexico and cross the border daily for their job in the U.S. They have NO connection to any type of illegal activity. I know that for a fact.

Speculation that Tand D have any connection to the drug cartels or debts owing to them is pure wild speculation and NOT even remotely bordering on fact or truth. It's just someone trying to find a reason, when there is none, that someone would murder David.

IMHO, they murdered him because they could.

JMHO
fran

Thank you for this post, fran. BBM by me. I think there is way too much wild speculation in this case. Sometimes things just really ARE what they seem to be.

I agree that they murdered David because they could. They have done the same to others as well. My late husband who was retired LE would be telling me to hold my horses on any guilt concerning the wife if I were suspecting her. He and I knew each other inside out and I know he would be telling me this.

This occurred in an open waterway with miles and mile of open area. There could have been MANY witnesses, IMO. The drug guys wouldn't care about witnesses, but someone not in the cartel and planning a murder would. Every part of a murder or murder for hire plan would have to fall into place. No one could have even counted on LE stopping Tiffany and David enroute for an expired registration sticker on the trailer and being able to verify that they were on their way down. To me, this minor traffic infraction just lends credence to Tiffany's story.

Murdered for insurance money? Well, they better either find David's body or be prepared to wait years before they collect.

Yes, I am on Tiffany's side and will contiue to be supportive of her.

GB Tiffany, David's family, friends, and and all of those who loved him or cared for him.

IMHO

 

[IWannaKnow]

Kimberlyd125 -

Mexican investigator in Falcon Lake case beheaded, officials say

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/12/texas.falcon.lake.head/index.html

Eva Rodriguez, Flores' secretary, said the news of his death came as a surprise. "We saw [Rolando] last night," she said. "After he came back [from the search for Hartley] we were all together here in the office. That was the last time any of us saw him."

She said she was not aware that Flores -- whom she described as "very dedicated to his job" -- had received any threats from narcotraffickers.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I heard on CNN today while I was at home for lunch that they cut off his head and had it delivered somewhere.

Sorry, I have not been following this case here much lately.
Has anybody else heard this????

Yep, you heard that right

 

[laytonian]

The timeline does not add up for the video. There are so many inconsistencies in Tiffany's story. I find it suspect that for some odd reason she had his truck keys. Why would she have them if he drove the truck? Simple answer is she would not. I am in Federal law enforcement and have to shoot at a range with NON MOVING TARGETS. It is fact that if the target is moving and the shooter is also moving at high speeds in a boat, The shooter will never get a clean shot to the head. Unless I apply all fundamentals of shooting, I will not hit my target.This only happens in Hollywood. Perhaps Tiffany saw this on "Miami Vice". If they did have automatic weapons like Tiffany preaches....There will be hundreds of shots being spayed everywhere. Furthermore if her Jet ski is moving at a high rate of speed, It would be impossible for her to see rounds hitting the water, not to mention hear them. In addition it is insult to injury when she tells her story and she claims she went back to get him. I can not speculate enough how much of the truth she is not telling. It is interesting on her Facebook page she is always posting about her boring life. It is also interesting that she is a fan of Dave Ramsey and goes so far to say that he has helped her. Suspect that there were financial problems. It looked like they lived a lavish lifestyle as well. Jet ski's, motorcycles, Trucks. I could go on and on. Tiffany needs to be investigated, and I'll add some more insight into this;, she indeed is. The authority's do not believe her, They are allowing her to tell her story and run the media so they can build their case. Furthermore, she does not realize this. Tiffany wants the fame of fortune and to live her fifteen minutes as long as she can. Remember Scott Peterson, Susan Smith? Enough said.

Good points.

I mentioned, last week, that the Hartleys' lifestyle didn't match what his job brought in. We have oil workers in Utah/Colorado, and although they do make more than an average salary, the lifestyle isn't good and their expenditures are high.

God saved her, but let her husband be shot. Now God's going to make a miracle come true, to solve this. Storro again. I'm waiting for Tiffany to say something like "I just wanted to inspired people (hope I did!)"

I'M LISTENING TO THE AUDIO:

WHAT???? They didn't know what town they were moving TO in Colorado? They were just going to stay in hotels until they found a house.

How was this, therefore, a LAST TRIP TO THE LAKE before they moved, if they didn't even know where they were going?

Did anyone else think that odd?

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/young-118013-zapata-hartley.html

Tiffany Young-Hartley: 'No, I will not go to Mexico'


ZAPATA — The governor of the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, Eugenio Hernandez Flores, has invited Tiffany Young-Hartley to go to Miguel Aleman and file a formal complaint about the alleged slaying of her husband, David Michael Hartley, on the Mexican side of Falcon Reservoir.

(Snipped)

Since the incident happened in Mexico, I do agree that a Formal Complaint Report should be filed by Tiffany with the Mexican authorities.

But I thought she had filed a report at the Mexican Consulate in McAllen, Texas?
Also, did she not meet privately with Mexican authorities? If so why wasn't a Report filed then?

 

[LaLaw2000]

I would think the Mexican Consulate could arrange for Tiffany to file a report through them, FGS.

I do not blame her - I would not go to Mexico either.

JMO

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks for that Joe Friday. Also from that link:



hmmmmmmmmm. I think I would pass on that as well.

I believe an official Police report should be filed with the Mexican authorities, David's death happened within their borders.

Tiffany Hartley is refusing to go to Mexico, fine.
Is she refusing to file a Police Report? a compromise can be found.
The Mexican authorities could be given permission to come to the U.S to obtain the Police Report and question her. Texas has Mexican Consulates, there is an Embassy in DC...

 

[Intermezzo]

Good points.

I mentioned, last week, that the Hartleys' lifestyle didn't match what his job brought in. We have oil workers in Utah/Colorado, and although they do make more than an average salary, the lifestyle isn't good and their expenditures are high.

God saved her, but let her husband be shot. Now God's going to make a miracle come true, to solve this. Storro again. I'm waiting for Tiffany to say something like "I just wanted to inspired people (hope I did!)"

I'M LISTENING TO THE AUDIO:

WHAT???? They didn't know what town they were moving TO in Colorado? They were just going to stay in hotels until they found a house.

How was this, therefore, a LAST TRIP TO THE LAKE before they moved, if they didn't even know where they were going?

Did anyone else think that odd?

Would they not move to the area where his employer and job would be located?
I read he requested a job transfer or the company was relocating hime, one would have a general idea where they were moving to based on the location of the company.
They have 3 locations in Colorado:
Denver, Platteville and Grand Junction.

 

[LaLaw2000]

My brother works for a huge oil and gasline company. I cannot begin to count all of the places he has been. He just finished a big job up near the Canadian line and has been home for a few days. Sometimes it is a couple of months. He got a call this morning to go to Michigan for 3 months. He has to be there Monday. He has no idea where he is going next when he finishes a job, ever. He was on this last job for over a year and North Dakota before that. When he is on a job, he can actually live on his perdiem and save all of his salary. He has always been able to buy many Big Boy toys because of that. Inbetween jobs, he lives with me and has an office here. BTW, he is single - does anyone want him? He is an environmental engineer.

Being in the type of business David is, I do not find it at all unusual that he might not have yet known where he and Tiffany would be going next. AND, I have no doubt David would have made a big salary. Probably bonuses as well.

 

[laytonian]

AFTER David was shot, and she went back for him. They were surrounded at that point and that was when she said they were pointing a gun at her from 10 ft away IIRC. I have not seen or read anything that says or implies that they were 10 ft away when they shot David - can you link to that?

I don't think she's ever said. From one of the first stories:
"Hartley's wife, Tiffany, said she and her husband were returning to the U.S. from photographing a half-submerged church in Mexico when they were attacked by pirates on speedboats. Hartley was shot and presumably fell into the lake. Tiffany Hartley said she tried to retrieve her husband's body and his Jet Ski but the pirates continued firing and she fled. Gonzalez has said he has an eyewitness who corroborates her account."

It's only when she's questioned about her own actions, that she started providing distances and specifics. She also changes her story:

From NBC as quoted on AOL News:

"Looking at the barrel of the gun is all I saw," she said on NBC. "I was pretty focused there. I couldn't tell you what they look like. They were within the length of my Jet Ski of me, which is about 10 feet."​

Listen to this Greta Van Susteren interview again, in full -- but here's the important quote from Fox News:

VAN SUSTEREN: How close did you [get to] them when you drove past them?

TIFFANY HARTLEY: I honestly have no idea. I didn't and look at them. I just drove and went as fast as my jet ski could go.

​

Then there's the CNN interview HERE where she says this:

And so I let David back in the water and then I started heading back to the U.S. But I had to pass them in order to get there, and then that's when they had started shooting again.​

So the "pirates" were closer to the US side that the Hartleys, at the time of the shooting? She miraculously (on her little jet ski) burst through three boats, within ten feet of them, to get in front of them .... and escapes while the men on all three boats are shooting and chasing her to the US side?

She really is painting herself as SuperWoman.

It's been interesting to know that although they lived in Reynosa for three years, she didn't learn any of the language. She could hardly shop for food there, either. Had to go to McAllen. Yet, if you read some of her interviews, she talks about the pirates talking to themselves and what they decided.

Has anyone turned up this big insurance policy which is presumably the reason for Tiffany shooting him in the head while on a sight seeing tour?

Life insurance?
Why not a drug/gun/money exchange?
Or famous Christian crime victim?

 

[Joe Friday]

I heard on CNN today while I was at home for lunch that they cut off his head and had it delivered somewhere.

Sorry, I have not been following this case here much lately.
Has anybody else heard this????

BBM

His head was put in a suit case and left out side a military base or office.

If I was her I don't think I would be going to Mexico to fill out any paper work or talk to the authorities there either. I would imaging that is just an excuse to get her where they can question her in regards to this killing and hold her until they get it sorted out. If it comes up that she was involved in her husbands death I would think she could be charged for this investigators death. JMO.

_______________________________________________

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/12/texas.falcon.lake.head/index.html

Mexican investigator in Falcon Lake case beheaded, officials say

Mexican Investigator Probing Murder of American Decapitated; Head Delivered to Military in Suitcase…

(CNN) -- The lead Mexican investigator in the Falcon Lake case, Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, has been killed, his severed head delivered Tuesday in a suitcase to the Mexican military, officials told CNN.

"His head was delivered to the army garrison this morning in a suitcase after he failed to report back home last night," Zapata County, Texas, Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez Jr. said.

(Snipped)

 

[hollyblue]

Good points.

I mentioned, last week, that the Hartleys' lifestyle didn't match what his job brought in. We have oil workers in Utah/Colorado, and although they do make more than an average salary, the lifestyle isn't good and their expenditures are high.

God saved her, but let her husband be shot. Now God's going to make a miracle come true, to solve this. Storro again. I'm waiting for Tiffany to say something like "I just wanted to inspired people (hope I did!)"

I'M LISTENING TO THE AUDIO:

WHAT???? They didn't know what town they were moving TO in Colorado? They were just going to stay in hotels until they found a house.

How was this, therefore, a LAST TRIP TO THE LAKE before they moved, if they didn't even know where they were going?

Did anyone else think that odd?

I found it extremely odd...coupled with the fact that this was a last minute trip to the church. They decided at 9 am to take a little skidoo trip to Mexico shortly before they had to move....yet they didn't know what town they would be moving to....realtors fault....they didn't "set up" a house hunting trip. Hmmm. Sorta like the trip to Moscow, Russia was cancelled because of the sudden move to Mexico.

Per Tiffany, if they moved to McAllen, the company would pay for their 1st year of expenses. If they moved to Mexico, the company would pay for all their living expense while living there...???? So why was he robbed of rent money that he didn't tell her about a year and a half ago????

Love to know what kind of gun she was looking down the barrell at; as the witnesses who thought the gun shots they heard were dove hunters. Since when do dove hunters use automatic weapons? Mean doves...I guess....or GIANT whoppers in that lake. IMO

 

[Intermezzo]

Since the incident happened in Mexico, I do agree that a Formal Complaint Report should be filed by Tiffany with the Mexican authorities.

But I thought she had filed a report at the Mexican Consulate in McAllen, Texas?
Also, did she not meet privately with Mexican authorities? If so why wasn't a Report filed then?

I would think the Mexican Consulate could arrange for Tiffany to file a report through them, FGS.

I do not blame her - I would not go to Mexico either.

JMO

I believe an official Police report should be filed with the Mexican authorities, David's death happened within their borders.

Tiffany Hartley is refusing to go to Mexico, fine.
Is she refusing to file a Police Report? a compromise can be found.
The Mexican authorities could be given permission to come to the U.S to obtain the Police Report and question her. Texas has Mexican Consulates, there is an Embassy in DC...

To update my earlier posts..
I just read Tiffany did file a Missing Persons Report at the Mexican Consulate as a matter of procedure to get things going.

Mexican authorities want her to go to Mexico to file an Official report and question her. Tiffany has said she will not go to Mexico...I say find a compromise.

Can Tiffany meet with the Mexican authorities at, lets say, the Mexican Consulate or Embassy to obtain an Official Report and question her.