Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[easttexas]

The purpose of my post was to try to portray just how dangerous it is outside of the tourist areas. Americans are sometimes very naive about security in a foreign country. There is a very real possibility that he was murdered by drug thugs. I have not made any comment about "why" I think that the couple was in the area. Why they crossed over into a dangerous area, who knows? People do dangerous things all the time thinking that they can get away with it. Could have been just risky
stupidity that led them to the area or it could have been a drug deal gone bad and her husband paid the price for it. Who knows? I'm just saying that drug thugs killing her husband is a real possibility. As far as if she is telling the true story or not, I have no idea.

First of all, I apologize if that came off rude to you...tired last night as I meant for it to be like GMAB to TH about taking such a risk for a picture. I agree with you about the level of violence that is in the border areas and TH even admits the was the reason for relocating to McAllen. So they were very aware of the risk. There are just huge gaping holes in her story and until there are more answers I am going to suspect her.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

BBm: I'm confused a bit. Why would anyone tell LE that they were planning on crossing illegally over the Mexican border?:waitasec:

From everything I read, it is not illegal to cross over into Mexico on that lake.
It is encouraged on several travel sites, the church they went to see is listed as an area attraction on several texas travel sites.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

BBM: Very simple. If you have ever helped unload a boat or two jetskis you would see this. This is how I can see why she would have the truck keys. I have helped my husband unload many boats and while I would back the truck with the trailer down the boat ramp he would get the boat off the trailer and hold onto it or if a dock was available, bring it up to the dock and wait for me to go park the truck and get back to the ramp. I always kept the keys with me because I knew that I would be the one to go get the truck and back it down the ramp so he could put the boat back on the trailer, signal me to go and I would pull up the ramp and park nearby so that he could come up, make sure the boat was secured on the trailer and get into the truck.

Totally agree. She had the keys for just this reason. I've done this myself many times.


O/T I love boating! I can't stand the slimy, squishy stuff on the boat ramp or the swamp grass growing underneath the surface. There has to be a way for me to get in and out of the boat without touching any of that. :snooty:

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findadest/parks/falcon/

This is from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Page

Area Attractions: Nearby points of interest include Lake Casa Blanca International State Park and Bentsen-Rio Grande Valley State Park (part of the World Birding Center); Falcon Dam, with a memorial to the joint US-Mexico project; Nuevo Guerrero, built across the border after Falcon Reservoir engulfed old Guerrero in 1953; Mexico; Fort Ringgold in Rio Grande City, established in 1848; the City of Roma, which was founded in 1768 and is currently restoring several old buildings. Roma has many historical sites including the Roma Historical Museum with exhibits on American, Spanish and Mexican cultures.



***So, if the TEXAS Parks and Wildlife page lists the old city/church locations as an area attraction on their STATE PARK page, I think it would be safe to say people may go to Falcon Lake to see it. Crossing over the border to do it.

JMO

I see nothing wrong with what the Hartley's did. It's advertised by the state of Texas.

They did not deserve this.

I also see nothing wrong with sightseeing and Old Guerrero is with a geographical area to many towns in Texas..the advertising of Old Guerrero by the State of Texas is IMO for tourism.
I have read the above but I doubt the State of Texas is advocating crossing the border using Falcon Lake to sight see in Old Guerrero via and bypass Border Patrol...for tourism yes.
Falcon International Dam is a Border Crossing.

Crossing international Borders without inspection IMO is an issue no matter the country.

 

[hollyblue]

Posting for those interested. It seems the details of the transfer were still in
work-out.


On Sept. 30, on the spur of the moment, they decided to take their Wave Runners out, knowing they would be headed back to Colorado as soon as David's transfer request was finalized.

Read more: David Hartley remembered as an ideal husband, son, friend - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/ci_16293727#ixzz12MGfKrOx

So why did she try to set up an appointment for house hunting with a realtor, but the realtor didn't come through?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I also see nothing wrong with sightseeing and Old Guerrero is with a geographical area to many towns in Texas..
I have read the above but I doubt the State of Texas is advocating crossing the border using Falcon Lake to sight see in Old Guerrero via and bypass Border Patrol...
Falcon International Dam is a Border Crossing.

Crossing international Borders without inspection IMO is an issue no matter the country.

But what they did is not illegal right? I'm just trying to find out if all the posts in this thread saying they crossed into Mexican waters illegally is factual.

From what I read it is not illegal.

Just trying to keep facts straight.

 

[hollyblue]

LOL I really do know the difference between boarder and border.....:blushing: Too late to edit.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

So why did she try to set up an appointment for house hunting with a realtor, but the realtor didn't come through?

From the audio interview:

Tiffany- We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt. But the realtor didn't get all of that set up.

It sounds like that was the initial plan. The realtor dropped the ball.

From my own personal experience, if given the option to stay in a hotel or move to a home seen only on the internet.....

Room service!!!!

 

[IWannaKnow]

But what they did is not illegal right? I'm just trying to find out if all the posts in this thread saying they crossed into Mexican waters illegally is factual.

From what I read it is not illegal.

Just trying to keep facts straight.

Kimberlyd125 - I haven't been to Mexico in about a decade, but back then there was no inspection GOING IN, but a whopper of one COMING BACK to the US. An article from 2007 stated in going there via land, you would bypass the US border checkpoint station and continue driving along the dam.....

Continue on FM 2098 past Park Road 46 (which will take you to Falcon State Park) until you reach Falcon Dam. Bypass the U.S. border checkpoint station and continue driving along the dam, where you will cross the international border between the U.S. and Mexico. Slow down at the Mexican border checkpoint station, where you may or may not be asked to stop. Once through the checkpoint, you will be traveling on Blas De La Garza Falcon.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5676982#post5676982"]David Hartley - Pirates shoot US man in Mexican waters - Page 24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


I guess they want the opportunity to stop you, if they so desire....but I was never stopped going in (all pre 9/11).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Kimberlyd125 - I haven't been to Mexico in about a decade, but back then there was no inspection GOING IN, but a whopper of one COMING BACK to the US. An article from 2007 stated in going there via land, you would bypass the US border checkpoint station and continue driving along the dam.....



David Hartley - Pirates shoot US man in Mexican waters - Page 24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I guess they want the opportunity to stop you, if they so desire....but I was never stopped going in (all pre 9/11).

Thanks!

I've tried to find the answer, but when you google anything about Falcon lake, this story comes up. Not much else.

 

[hollyblue]

From the audio interview:

Tiffany- We had planned that we would go to Colorado and do a house hunt. But the realtor didn't get all of that set up.

It sounds like that was the initial plan. The realtor dropped the ball.

From my own personal experience, if given the option to stay in a hotel or move to a home seen only on the internet.....

Room service!!!!

I agree. But doesn't that prove she had some idea of the area she was moving to?

 

[alwaysonmymind]

From the Texas DPS website. This also has a description of the types of boats the pirates are using.
Hopefully this can help save other innocent lives.

October 1, 2010
Law enforcement agencies urging Texans to stay
on U.S. side of Falcon Lake

Fishermen are still advised to stay as far away as possible from any of the Argos-type fishing boats typically used as fishing vessels by Mexican fishermen. These boats have a large prow, a small outboard motor without a cowling and no identification numbers on the hull.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/pr100110.pdf

Is this the kind of boat with the center console? tia

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I agree. But doesn't that prove she had some idea of the area she was moving to?

What I heard was they were undecided about the town. How does this make her guilty of murder? :waitasec:

I can understand this. I live in a small suburb on the farfarfar edge of a very large city. There are numerous options on where we could have lived. We took 2.5 years to decide where to build our house after we decided on the town. :crazy:

And we aren't involved in any nefarious activities. :angel:

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks!

I've tried to find the answer, but when you google anything about Falcon lake, this story comes up. Not much else.

I have to keep reminding myself that DH worked and lived in Mexico at one time in the recent past and probably had a visa...therefore, he prolly didn't need anything further to go into Mexico. As I mentioned previously, I thought I heard...faintly... DH talking to LE when he was pulled over about the company he worked for....prolly because of the Mexican tags, and being questioned about them. imo

 

[cmsg2002]

I'd like to have some more details to fill in what I perceive to be some of the gaps in her story. here's just the first few I can think of at the moment:

She said she saw her husband motioning that they had to get moving....she didn't know the reason (pirates) until she heard the gunshots. So where was husband when he motioned...in front or behind her. If behind her, then she would have had to turn around to see this (therefore seeing the pirates also). And if behind her...how did she see husband getting shot? Even if somehow she were to have seen this, she would have had to turn around to go back to him.
If in front, she would be able to see husband motioning and see if he was shot. But this would have placed her closer to the pirates than him. Also, there was no communication from the pirates prior to the shooting? No attempted robbery? Just came after them and started shooting?

 

[cmsg2002]

I have to keep reminding myself that DH worked and lived in Mexico at one time in the recent past and probably had a visa...therefore, he prolly didn't need anything further to go into Mexico. As I mentioned previously, I thought I heard...faintly... DH talking to LE when he was pulled over about the company he worked for....prolly because of the Mexican tags, and being questioned about them. imo

I thought LE pulled them over for 'expired' tags...if they had expired mexican tags, would US LE even pull them over?

 

[Tuffy]

Kimberlyd125 - I haven't been to Mexico in about a decade, but back then there was no inspection GOING IN, but a whopper of one COMING BACK to the US. An article from 2007 stated in going there via land, you would bypass the US border checkpoint station and continue driving along the dam.....



David Hartley - Pirates shoot US man in Mexican waters - Page 24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I guess they want the opportunity to stop you, if they so desire....but I was never stopped going in (all pre 9/11).

I think I understand what you're saying. You don't have to go through any checkpoint going in, but you do when you go back to the US?

They did not drive across the dam though, right? They just went by water. Therefore, they would not have gone through any checkpoints to go back to the US side. I guess that's where I have the problem with it. If people are routinely going back and forth without going through any port of entry, it's just impossible to have any type of control on the border.

 

[Tuffy]

I thought LE pulled them over for 'expired' tags...if they had expired mexican tags, would US LE even pull them over?

Yep you have to have current tags regardless. My hubby found that out when he moved here from another state.

 

[easttexas]

I know the above post wasn't directed to me but I just wanted to be clear that although I do suspect TH is not telling the whole story, I am not suspecting her of murder or anything else at this point. I haven't heard anything yet that makes me think she murdered him. I just don't believe what she has said so far.

 

[Intermezzo]

But what they did is not illegal right? I'm just trying to find out if all the posts in this thread saying they crossed into Mexican waters illegally is factual.

From what I read it is not illegal.

Just trying to keep facts straight.

It was posted on part 1 this thread about a "border zone".
I have since read that tourists do not require a visa or a tourist card for stays of 72 hours or less within the border zone (20 to 30 kilometres from the U.S. border) about 12-18 miles.
Practically speaking, this zone includes the territory up to the first customs/immigration checkpoint south of the border cities.

According to the Mexicans they crossed illegally.
Not that I put complete belief in what is said...but if true then the Border zone does not apply to this location.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/falcon-117639-heights-police.html
‘SHOULDN’T HAVE CROSSED THERE’

U.S. authorities maintain they are working with their Mexican counterparts to recover Hartley’s body.

But the Mexican army captain in charge of Falcon Lake learned of the alleged homicide Monday morning when contacted by The Monitor.

During a second interview Monday afternoon, Mexican army Capt. Juan Hernan Espinoza said troops had searched for Hartley.

Brian Quigley, a spokesman for the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey, said officials there have been working with Mexican investigators to find Hartley’s body, without specifying which agency. Neither his remains nor his personal watercraft have been recovered, Quigley said.

“We’ve asked the Mexican authorities to do everything they can in the case and bring it to a close,” he said. “Both sides are trying to find the body.”

Espinoza, meanwhile, questioned why the Hartleys illegally crossed into Mexico on their personal watercrafts without checking in with Mexican customs.

“They shouldn’t have crossed through there,” Espinoza said in Spanish.