Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[hollyblue]

What I heard was they were undecided about the town. How does this make her guilty of murder? :waitasec:

I can understand this. I live in a small suburb on the farfarfar edge of a very large city. There are numerous options on where we could have lived. We took 2.5 years to decide where to build our house after we decided on the town. :crazy:

And we aren't involved in any nefarious activities. :angel:

BBM. :waitasec: So we have come full circle....why call the realtor to take a home buying tour if you don't know the location of where you are going and the tranfer hasn't "come thru" yet?

:waitasec:I never said she was guilty of murder.....just that there are inconsistancies with this little bit of info, as with most of her stories. She may very well have not killed him.....but I don't think she's being forthright in what she has portrayed in her reoccurance of the "murder".

Will say this....if the cartel was not responsible for his disappearance....she has a HUGH pair of brass benwahs to remain in McAllen after accusing them.

 

[Intermezzo]

I thought LE pulled them over for 'expired' tags...if they had expired mexican tags, would US LE even pull them over?

YES, it is still an expired tag and yes they can issue a ticket

:blushing: I worked in a DMV for way to long.

 

[Intermezzo]

I think I understand what you're saying. You don't have to go through any checkpoint going in, but you do when you go back to the US?

They did not drive across the dam though, right? They just went by water. Therefore, they would not have gone through any checkpoints to go back to the US side. I guess that's where I have the problem with it. If people are routinely going back and forth without going through any port of entry, it's just impossible to have any type of control on the border.

bbm
I agree..

 

[Melanie]

I'm so on the fence on this one. In respect to the moving situation - I'm not sure how that comes into play. We just moved (Lord, I haven't even unpacked yet), but some folks must just up and move -- not sure where they are going. Me, on the other hand, have to know exactly where I'm going. Cable and Internet, gas and electric, all need to be set up first. Change of address done in advance, etc. It took me 2 months to pull off this move.

The last thing I could even imagine would be jet-skiing out on a lake (in Mexico) no less, when I had a move coming up so quickly.

Now that we're back in San Diego, we won't go near the border (and haven't done so in 13 years). I know so many people who go there for medical care/meds/booze/partying - and I think they're insane (sorry).

IMHO - this couple was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just wish the wife would take a lie detector test to make me feel better

MOO

Mel

 

[hollyblue]

I thought LE pulled them over for 'expired' tags...if they had expired mexican tags, would US LE even pull them over?

Well, we have two different tags...according to the two articles we have posted here. One is the truck tags...and the other is the trailer tags. My guess....one of the them...prolly the trailer had expired TX tags. ?? Would they not be able to pull over someone with expired Mexican tags tho? If they were in TX?

I'd like to have some more details to fill in what I perceive to be some of the gaps in her story. here's just the first few I can think of at the moment:

She said she saw her husband motioning that they had to get moving....she didn't know the reason (pirates) until she heard the gunshots. So where was husband when he motioned...in front or behind her. If behind her, then she would have had to turn around to see this (therefore seeing the pirates also). And if behind her...how did she see husband getting shot? Even if somehow she were to have seen this, she would have had to turn around to go back to him.
If in front, she would be able to see husband motioning and see if he was shot. But this would have placed her closer to the pirates than him. Also, there was no communication from the pirates prior to the shooting? No attempted robbery? Just came after them and started shooting?

Here's my perception of her story. They were taking pics, the "pirates" and them exchanged waves, then the "pirates" started heading their way. DH motions to her----because he is too far away?---to tell her to head out and they both take off for US waters...her leading and him behind....the shooting starts, he's hit, she returns to him and they encircle her with one boat approaching her and pointing gun at her. (my o only.... maybe to tell her to leave his body there) They let her go and then one boat chases her back into US waters.... ????

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If the Zetas thought the Hartleys were spies for the other cartel, why would the sent killers give the Hartleys a friendly wave?

 

[hollyblue]

I'm so on the fence on this one. In respect to the moving situation - I'm not sure how that comes into play. We just moved (Lord, I haven't even unpacked yet), but some folks must just up and move -- not sure where they are going. Me, on the other hand, have to know exactly where I'm going. Cable and Internet, gas and electric, all need to be set up first. Change of address done in advance, etc. It took me 2 months to pull off this move.

The last thing I could even imagine would be jet-skiing out on a lake (in Mexico) no less, when I had a move coming up so quickly.

Now that we're back in San Diego, we won't go near the border (and haven't done so in 13 years). I know so many people who go there for medical care/meds/booze/partying - and I think they're insane (sorry).

IMHO - this couple was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just wish the wife would take a lie detector test to make me feel better

MOO

Mel

It would have been no effort on her part...the company was prolly footing the bill for the move, hotel, storage, etc until they found a place. No labor on their part. Some companies have HR coordinators who help with real estate contacts and utility info or help too. Once they found a place, then she wouldn't have the time for anything until she unpacked...unless she hired someone for that. It took me 2 months to unpack, organize, redecorate and refurbish the pantries with food and cleaning goods. Maybe it's just me, but EVERYTHING has be washed and recleaned before put away. LOL. You don't know who's stuff was in the same van as yours.

I think a LDT would help in the investigation and move it forward too...but that again is her choice.

 

[cmsg2002]

Yep you have to have current tags regardless. My hubby found that out when he moved here from another state.

I can understand if from another state, but another country?? They wouldn't even have jurisdiction to issue a citation for expired tags from another country, would they??

 

[cmsg2002]

sorry, i hadn't seen some of the above replies before posting.

 

[Intermezzo]

I can understand if from another state, but another country?? They wouldn't even have jurisdiction to issue a citation for expired tags from another country, would they??

Yes. Another State Yes. Another country
The driver and/or vehicle is in their jurisdiction.
LE will issue the ticket, the DMV will create a driver record and record the infraction in the database even though the driver lives and is licensed in another state or country.
If the driver fails to pay the ticket the record will be suspended for unpaid fines.
I would assume all jurisdictions work this way in order to record violations issued to drivers from other jurisdictions

 

[WellDone]

I'm so on the fence on this one. In respect to the moving situation - I'm not sure how that comes into play. We just moved (Lord, I haven't even unpacked yet), but some folks must just up and move -- not sure where they are going. Me, on the other hand, have to know exactly where I'm going. Cable and Internet, gas and electric, all need to be set up first. Change of address done in advance, etc. It took me 2 months to pull off this move.

The last thing I could even imagine would be jet-skiing out on a lake (in Mexico) no less, when I had a move coming up so quickly. Now that we're back in San Diego, we won't go near the border (and haven't done so in 13 years). I know so many people who go there for medical care/meds/booze/partying - and I think they're insane (sorry).

IMHO - this couple was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I just wish the wife would take a lie detector test to make me feel better

MOO

Mel

BBM

I can totally understand & personally relate to the "move issue".... in June hubby & I just loaded everything in storage.... kissed the kids goodbye & took off on OUR OWN ADVENTURE.... the kids are grown & it's OUR TIME now.... we moved from 3 hrs south of the Canadian border & now live very close to the gulf of Mexico... we are very spontaneous especially since we don't have to worry about kids' school, ball games, etc.... I suspect D & TH are as well.

Concerning the NOT boating while in moving phase... Are you kidding???? We left EVERYTHING in storage BUT the boat & our clothes!!!! We hit the road towing the boat for our wild adventure! Couldn't be happier!

P.S.

When we started out our adventure it was to just drive until we found a place we liked.... we had ideas about where...like south where it's warm & where the bass fishing is good... LOL Other than that nothing set in stone.

We THINK we're gonna settle here, but are not sure, so we still have our storage... no biggy...

 

[laytonian]

I know the above post wasn't directed to me but I just wanted to be clear that although I do suspect TH is not telling the whole story, I am not suspecting her of murder or anything else at this point. I haven't heard anything yet that makes me think she murdered him. I just don't believe what she has said so far.

Same here.
My disbelief lies in the reason for the rush trip to the lake, the need to cross the marked border just to take pictures, and her description of the events.

It's like Bethany Storro.
I believed acid was thrown in her face. I just didn't believe another word she said about who, what, when, where or how.

 

[WellDone]

Same here.
My disbelief lies in the reason for the rush trip to the lake, the need to cross the marked border just to take pictures, and her description of the events.

It's like Bethany Storro.
I believed acid was thrown in her face. I just didn't believe another word she said about who, what, when, where or how.

BBM

I don't find it odd at all... or rushed.... spontaneous... maybe

When my husband flies into Houston every month...the first thing we do is get the boat out & go...we boat all month long - EVERY DAY & the very last thing before he flies out again....

 

[laytonian]

BBM

I don't find it odd at all... or rushed.... spontaneous... maybe

When my husband flies into Houston every month...the first thing we do is get the boat out & go...we boat all month long - EVERY DAY & the very last thing before he flies out again....

I think I know which lake

There's bodies of water nearer to McAllen, than Falcon Lake. The inland waterway and Corpus Christi gulf are beautiful - and safer.

My problem lies with all the different versions she's told. Nearly every interview I read, conflicts with another in one detail or more.

Like the NBC and Fox News interviews, which I detailed below. She either knows how far she was from the boats, or doesn't. But when she does say how long, it's suddenly a story of how she had to jet between the boats to safety while they shot at her.

All I know, is that I've read they used their "last free day" to go to Falcon Lake. Then I read that the move wasn't even approved/firm yet. I thought they moved from Reynosa MX to McAllen for safety; then they go to a dangerous lake "on a whim"?

Spontaneous is good.
I carry my passport in my purse.

 

[Harmony 2]

Sheriff: Jet Ski killing blamed on mistaken identity

Report says Mexican drug cartel took American for spy of rival gang

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39669630/ns/world_news-americas/

Hartley, of McAllen, Texas, is believed to have been shot by Zetas cartel enforcers because he was mistaken for an operative of the rival Gulf cartel, according to an independent intelligence report.

"The truck Hartley and his wife used to put their Jet Skis in the water at the lake had Tamaulipas state plates, and the Hartleys drove the Jet Skis to the Old Guerrero area of the lake, a known battleground in the ongoing war the Los Zetas and Gulf cartels," according to STRATFOR, a Texas-based think tank on intelligence and international issues.

"Given the couple’s license plate and method and direction of travel, it is possible that Zetas scouts identified them as a Gulf cartel surveillance team," STRATFOR said in its report.

 

[laytonian]

Sheriff: Jet Ski killing blamed on mistaken identity

Report says Mexican drug cartel took American for spy of rival gang

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39669630/ns/world_news-americas/

The truck Hartley and his wife used to put their Jet Skis in the water at the lake had Tamaulipas state plates, and the Hartleys drove the Jet Skis to the Old Guerrero area of the lake, a known battleground in the ongoing war the Los Zetas and Gulf cartels," according to STRATFOR, a Texas-based think tank on intelligence and international issues.

Now I'm officially confused.

Their truck was registered in Mexico. How could a cartel (in Mexico) see all the way across the lake, to spot their Mexican license plates?

In one story, I read that Tifany had to jet 7 miles across the water; in another quote posted here, one mile. In either case, that's a powerful pair of binoculars!

Or.....did they DRIVE across the border and put the jet skis in the water from the Mexican side?

At least we now know why they were pulled over by "at least three" law enforcement issues, for that expired tag on their trailer. They had Mexican license plates, an expired trailer tag....and probably mixed-up IDs.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

In addition to the commandos, there is a hierarchy within the group:[25]
Los Halcones (The Hawks) keep watch over distribution zones and use 2 meter radio band.
Las Ventanas (The Windows) comprise bike-riding youngsters in their mid-teens who whistle to warn of the presence of police and other suspicious individuals near small stores that sell drugs.
Los Mañosos (The Tricky Ones) acquire arms.
Los Leopardos (Leopards) are prostitutes who slyly extract information from their clients.
Dirección (Command) are approximately 20 communications experts who intercept phone calls, follow and identify suspicious automobiles, and even accomplish kidnappings and executions.[6][26]

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas[/ame]

 

[mysticrose]

Soooo this article is supposed to make evrything better, we are to believe this ? Davids body has been deystroyed ? Sounds like the drug cartels have been doing their own investigating, wtf? REALLY .........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39669630/ns/world_news-americas/

 

[WellDone]

]I think I know which lake *1

There's bodies of water nearer to McAllen, than Falcon Lake. The inland waterway and Corpus Christi gulf are beautiful - and safer.

*2
My problem lies with all the different versions she's told. Nearly every interview I read, conflicts with another in one detail or more.

Like the NBC and Fox News interviews, which I detailed below. She either knows how far she was from the boats, or doesn't. But when she does say how long, it's suddenly a story of how she had to jet between the boats to safety while they shot at her.

*3
All I know, is that I've read they used their "last free day" to go to Falcon Lake. Then I read that the move wasn't even approved/firm yet. I thought they moved from Reynosa MX to McAllen for safety; then they go to a dangerous lake "on a whim"?

*4
Spontaneous is good.
I carry my passport in my purse.

[/B]

BBM:

1) Living & breathing bass tourneys! LOL :crazy:

2) I get what you are saying, but I know under extreme stress I could not recall every single exact detail... heck, I'd probably block most of it out for that matter... so I don't see any of her statements as "changing her story" like it's being insinuated.... I think she's doing the best she can to recall & be helpful with any & all details to assist in the desperate search for her husband's body.

(IMO the only people who recant stories - word for word - have a rehearsed script.... not necessarily honest.... JMO - for what it's worth.) :waitasec:

I never tell the same story exactly! Sometimes it may be shorter & sometimes longer... depending on who I'm talking to... what I recall at that moment, what seems the main focus & importance... That doesn't mean I'm intentionally withholding information or am dishonest..... or making up stories.

They moved from Reynosa to McAllen per work for safety... & were moving to Colorado per work transfer.... nothing sinister there. So they opted to go to Falcon Lake. Yes it was known to be dangerous, but they had not heard anything recently..... I mean even moving from Reynosa DH still had to return to work there day in & out. I'm just not seeing the relevence here.... so they had a lot going on at that time.... it's not like they should just sit at home & wait.... right???? David's mother states David is into History & wanted to see the church.... taking possibly the last opportunity to do so before moving from the area....

3) "last free day"...very last minute.... if David is like my husband... it wouldn't matter a bit or seem odd at all... :waitasec:

4) Me too!!!! LOL:blushing:

In all honestly if any of us were to NEVER, EVER intentionally put ourselves & family in harms way we would never leave the house, never drive, never go to be cities, never go out after dark.... the possibilities for danger are a fact of life & sadly of our society today... not just in Mexico. Because if everyone was so overly cautious no one would vaca in Mexico, South America, Europe, any continent & they could not leave their house if you want to get technical about it.... even then... home invasion victims aren't safe in their own homes!

 

[lonetraveler]

From everything I read, it is not illegal to cross over into Mexico on that lake.
It is encouraged on several travel sites, the church they went to see is listed as an area attraction on several texas travel sites.

Thanks for the information. I've seen a multitude of posts proclaiming that the couple were there illegally and that they had no business crossing over into the Mexican side of the border. I'm glad you cleared this up. BTW, even if they had crossed illegally, that does not make it right to be shot or shot at. Not directed to you, but to the posters who post as if what happened was deserved in some way...