Mexico Mexico - Jenny Chen, 26, Oaxaca, 11 April 2016 #2

[Lilibet]

Lilibet, you are a super sleuth, for sure! Thanks for doing all that brain work to try and figure out possible timelines for Jenny's journey just before she disappeared. You are awesome.

I had forgotten that I already posted a similar post before (the notebook post) . Now I get to use the embarrassed emoticon face, lol. :blushing: If that info is still true (or partially true) then maybe the shopkeeper family is in or near Juchitan. I had been thinking they were in Oaxaca. Ah, well...as you said, we just don't have enough of the right details to put together a scenario that is most likely.

If the truck with Jenny as a passenger was picked up at the Pemex we were looking at on Hwy 185, would the truck have made a stop in Juchitan or merely passed through/by? If just passing by, I don't know if many people would have taken notice of the truck. A large double-trailer type of truck seems like the kind that only goes from one warehouse to another, doesn't it? Where did the truck originate, and what was its destination. I know we don't know the answer, but I wonder if the PI knows that much.

BBM

No need to blush! Your earlier post was great. We know next to nothing and it's very annoying.

If the Corona driver was going the opposite way from Cancun (but still going there), he would have traveled south on 185 and caught 190 eastbound before reaching Juchitan. Then he could have taken 145D north to 180, the highway that eventually gets to Cancun. I'm not sure of the road conditions, but he could have branched off of 145D onto 187 to get to 180. If he'd gone north on 185 he would have hit 180, but apparently he was avoiding a roadblock. Maybe rosesfromangels has some insight on the roads. I remember reading that truckers don't like going through Chiapas because it's a winding route with drop offs.

https://www.google.com/maps/@17.4267253,-94.0859906,8z

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, anything other than the main "highways" (and I use that term loosely), are hardly fit for truck travel. Even car travel is dicey in some areas. More fit for donkey carts. No kidding. This is indigenous country, and oh so dangerous. Last trek I made we were stopped several times by federales at this various towered outposts. Very creepy.

This brings me to something I have been pondering all day.
I think we mostly think it's the highest likelihood Jenny expired soon after being picked up by the corona truck.
BUT, her risk taking and oddish behavior speaks to some "unclear thinking".
This departure from clear thinking leaves a small, very small, chance that she is still alive on some odyssey of sorts.....

 

[Lilibet]

Has the supposed family from Juchitan come forward? I'm sure that would clear up at least 1/2 of the confusion.

No, we only know about them from the article linked earlier. It would definitely help to hear from them!

 

[Lilibet]

Yes, anything other than the main "highways" (and I use that term loosely), are hardly fit for truck travel. Even car travel is dicey in some areas. More fit for donkey carts. No kidding. This is indigenous country, and oh so dangerous. Last trek I made we were stopped several times by federales at this various towered outposts. Very creepy.

This brings me to something I have been pondering all day.
I think we mostly think it's the highest likelihood Jenny expired soon after being picked up by the corona truck.
BUT, her risk taking and oddish behavior speaks to some "unclear thinking".
This departure from clear thinking leaves a small, very small, chance that she is still alive on some odyssey of sorts.....

I'm glad you're safe! Do you think the "main highways" I listed above would be a route a truck would take to avoid a roadblock? That excuse seems sketchy to me.

Can you even imagine hitchhiking from Juchitan to Cancun? To me that indicates the "unclear thinking" Jenny was doing. I would hope it also means she's alive and backpacking or being cared for by an indigenous family. But the odds are against it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don't know the route numbers well enough to validate. My recollection is a well kept toll highway, and everything else very sketchy roads. The highway had Feds all over it. Every 15 mins you get stopped at a checkpoint.
Which would have noted Jenny for sure....if visible.

You get stopped, questioned, papers reviewed, sometimes detained for a bit.
They would have seen her.

And no, I have never seen anyone....anyone hitch hiking in that area. The Feds would have picked them up quickly I would think? Nutso to do so. Very dangerous.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't know the route numbers well enough to validate. My recollection is a well kept toll highway, and everything else very sketchy roads. The highway had Feds all over it. Every 15 mins you get stopped at a checkpoint.
Which would have noted Jenny for sure....if visible.

You get stopped, questioned, papers reviewed, sometimes detained for a bit.
They would have seen her.

And no, I have never seen anyone....anyone hitch hiking in that area. The Feds would have picked them up quickly I would think? Nutso to do so. Very dangerous.

Thanks roses. The fact that you get stopped so often makes me think the Corona driver didn't go far with her. Whatever was done was before the next checkpoint. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

JR is getting detectives from outside Mexico to look at this with fresh eyes. He's hoping to develop a new strategy and improve the investigation.

I'm glad to hear this. As someone commented to JR today in frustration about him expecting results from LE...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So I wonder if he's let his Mexican PI and attorney go. There was an American PI who offered assistance early on and said he had lots of experience in Mexico. I wonder if that's who it is.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/648217938686587/

 

[Lilibet]

My clumsy translation attempt below. Be forewarned though, that my Spanish isn't great, and what Spanish I do know is New Mexico Spanish, which is apparently its own weird thing. So don't take anything in it as official. Stuff in square brackets=my notes & clarification.


Original text:
Al no tener respuesta, Reinhard contrató a una agencia de investigación privada, quienes señalaron que la última vez que se vio a Jenny Chen, posiblemente pasó la noche en un paradero de camiones en La Laguna, donde está la desviación a Juchitán.

My translation:
After getting no reply [from Mexican authorities], Reinhard hired a private investigator, who determined that when Jenny Chen was last seen, she may have spent the night at a *truckstop [bus stop?] in La Laguna, where the detour to Juchitan is.


*note: I believe "camion/camiones" in this context means bus/buses. I would use "camion" (or "troca" if I was being informal) for "truck" and "autobus" for "bus," but I think "camion" is "bus" in Mexico. However, later in the article the word "camion" is used to mean "the Modelo truck," so I don't know...

I did a translation of the entire article, as well as the earlier summary of the radio show, but I hesitate to post them because I don't want to run afoul of the rules about copyright. (I should be covered under translator's copyright, but better to be safe, I guess.) But let me know if there are any other paragraphs from those two articles that anyone wants an iffy translation of. (I can get the gist of an article, but my literal word-to-word translating sucks.) In a few weeks the fall semester starts and I can bug my Spanish professor friends for official translations (although hopefully Jenny will be found safe by then).

Thanks so much, Mouse. Great job! We have a 10% rule here at WS, that we can only quote 10% of article. I'm not sure if that per post or per article. I don't know about translators copyright. You could pm a mod and ask. I think our mod is "Greater Than" with an alligator avatar, but any mod should know.

The paragraph I'm interested in is:

Cabe señalar que Grupo Modelo ha expresado toda su disposición para esclarecer el caso. Sin embargo, por los hechos de Nochixtlán, la Procuraduría de Oaxaca se ha mostrado renuente a realizar dos diligencias: revisar los GPS de los camiones de la cervecería que circularon por la zona y tomar la declaración de dos mujeres, trabajadoras en el paradero donde Jenny habría pasado la noche.

Here's what google translate came up with:

It should be noted that Grupo Modelo has expressed her willingness to clarify the case . However , by the facts of Nochixtlán , the Office of Oaxaca has been reluctant to do two measures : check the GPS trucks brewery that circulated around the area and take the testimony of two women, workers at the bus stop where Jenny He has spent the night

 

[Mouse]

Thanks so much, Mouse. Great job! We have a 10% rule here at WS, that we can only quote 10% of article. I'm not sure if that per post or per article. I don't know about translators copyright. You could pm a mod and ask. I think our mod is "Greater Than" with an alligator avatar, but any mod should know.

The paragraph I'm interested in is:

Cabe señalar que Grupo Modelo ha expresado toda su disposición para esclarecer el caso. Sin embargo, por los hechos de Nochixtlán, la Procuraduría de Oaxaca se ha mostrado renuente a realizar dos diligencias: revisar los GPS de los camiones de la cervecería que circularon por la zona y tomar la declaración de dos mujeres, trabajadoras en el paradero donde Jenny habría pasado la noche.

Here's what google translate came up with:

It should be noted that Grupo Modelo has expressed her willingness to clarify the case . However , by the facts of Nochixtlán , the Office of Oaxaca has been reluctant to do two measures : check the GPS trucks brewery that circulated around the area and take the testimony of two women, workers at the bus stop where Jenny He has spent the night

Here's what I came up with:

It should be noted that Grupo Modelo has expressed willingness to help clear up this matter [the missing persons case]. However, because of what happened in Nochixtlan [the protestors who were killed], the Attorney General of Oaxaca has been reluctant to do two things: check the GPS records of the brewery trucks that were in the area; and get statements from two women, workers at the *bus stop [truck stop? see my notes on the camion issue in previous translation post] where Jenny would have spent the night. [not sure if he's reluctant because they're short on manpower due to the Nochixtlan events, or if he means that he doesn't want to rile up any other groups, such as the brewery company]

Something I found really interesting in the last paragraph were some stats about missing people:

Original text:
En torno a desapariciones en Oaxaca, la entidad registra, a la fecha, 110 mujeres desaparecidas, de acuerdo con el Registro Nacional de Datos de Personas Extraviadas o Desaparecidas, siendo el registro más antiguo en 2003. Mientras que entre 2010 y 2015 han muerto, por homicidio, 209 mujeres extranjeras en México; solo un caso en Oaxaca.


Translation:
Regarding disappearances in Oaxaca, to date there are 110 women listed as missing, according to the National Registry of Missing or Disappeared Persons, the oldest record being from 2003. Between 2010 and 2015, 209 foreign women died by homicide in Mexico; only one case happened in Oaxaca. [The difference between "missing" and "disappeared" in Latin America is that missing could be for any number of reasons (crime, hiking accident with body not found, leaving to seek a new life, etc.), while "disappeared" has the connotation of "being made to disappear by the government, military, or other body of authority."]


Note: I don't see anywhere near 110 women listed as missing from Oaxaca in the National registry, and the oldest listing I find is male and dates back to 2005. But I am probably not using or understanding the search engine correctly, because I'm finding some *really* odd things that just don't make any sense. (Also, nearly every article I've found about the RNPED is full of complaints about how incomplete it is.) Now I'm wondering if the "110 women listed as missing" means in all of Mexico, not just Oaxaca? (The original article isn't very well written, and the punctuation is kind of wonky.) Hmmm...when I get a chance, maybe I'll go through the whole registry and count the total number of women.

If anyone wants to take a look at the RNPED (the official Missing Persons Registry), it's located here: https://rnped.segob.gob.mx/
Maybe someone can figure out why I'm doing wrong and why I'm coming up with such empty searches--

 

[Lilibet]

Here's what I came up with:

It should be noted that Grupo Modelo has expressed willingness to help clear up this matter [the missing persons case]. However, because of what happened in Nochixtlan [the protestors who were killed], the Attorney General of Oaxaca has been reluctant to do two things: check the GPS records of the brewery trucks that were in the area; and get statements from two women, workers at the *bus stop [truck stop? see my notes on the camion issue in previous translation post] where Jenny would have spent the night. [not sure if he's reluctant because they're short on manpower due to the Nochixtlan events, or if he means that he doesn't want to rile up any other groups, such as the brewery company]

Something I found really interesting in the last paragraph were some stats about missing people:

Original text:
En torno a desapariciones en Oaxaca, la entidad registra, a la fecha, 110 mujeres desaparecidas, de acuerdo con el Registro Nacional de Datos de Personas Extraviadas o Desaparecidas, siendo el registro más antiguo en 2003. Mientras que entre 2010 y 2015 han muerto, por homicidio, 209 mujeres extranjeras en México; solo un caso en Oaxaca.


Translation:
Regarding disappearances in Oaxaca, to date there are 110 women listed as missing, according to the National Registry of Missing or Disappeared Persons, the oldest record being from 2003. Between 2010 and 2015, 209 foreign women died by homicide in Mexico; only one case happened in Oaxaca. [The difference between "missing" and "disappeared" in Latin America is that missing could be for any number of reasons (crime, hiking accident with body not found, leaving to seek a new life, etc.), while "disappeared" has the connotation of "being made to disappear by the government, military, or other body of authority."]


Note: I don't see anywhere near 110 women listed as missing from Oaxaca in the National registry, and the oldest listing I find is male and dates back to 2005. But I am probably not using or understanding the search engine correctly, because I'm finding some *really* odd things that just don't make any sense. (Also, nearly every article I've found about the RNPED is full of complaints about how incomplete it is.) Now I'm wondering if the "110 women listed as missing" means in all of Mexico, not just Oaxaca? (The original article isn't very well written, and the punctuation is kind of wonky.) Hmmm...when I get a chance, maybe I'll go through the whole registry and count the total number of women.

If anyone wants to take a look at the RNPED (the official Missing Persons Registry), it's located here: https://rnped.segob.gob.mx/
Maybe someone can figure out why I'm doing wrong and coming up with empty searches--

Thanks again, Mouse. I'm intrigued about the two women workers at the truck stop. It also seems that the unrest has interfered with Jenny's investigation, if this is to be believed. In the midst of a crisis, she is not a priority and that's understandable.

I only found three missing women in Oaxaca during the past three years on the RNPED site. I find that hard to believe. It's not exactly NamUS, that's for sure. Maybe they don't get reported. But it's chilling that 209 foreign women have been killed in Mexico from 2005-2010!

 

[LisaWL7TR]

Yes, anything other than the main "highways" (and I use that term loosely), are hardly fit for truck travel. Even car travel is dicey in some areas. More fit for donkey carts. No kidding. This is indigenous country, and oh so dangerous. Last trek I made we were stopped several times by federales at this various towered outposts. Very creepy.

This brings me to something I have been pondering all day.
I think we mostly think it's the highest likelihood Jenny expired soon after being picked up by the corona truck.
BUT, her risk taking and oddish behavior speaks to some "unclear thinking".
This departure from clear thinking leaves a small, very small, chance that she is still alive on some odyssey of sorts.....

Rosesfromangels

What happened when you were stopped?

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[LisaWL7TR]

I don't know the route numbers well enough to validate. My recollection is a well kept toll highway, and everything else very sketchy roads. The highway had Feds all over it. Every 15 mins you get stopped at a checkpoint.
Which would have noted Jenny for sure....if visible.

You get stopped, questioned, papers reviewed, sometimes detained for a bit.
They would have seen her.

And no, I have never seen anyone....anyone hitch hiking in that area. The Feds would have picked them up quickly I would think? Nutso to do so. Very dangerous.

Rosestoangels

Oops read down further and saw my answer, sorry.

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[GigTu]

JR is getting detectives from outside Mexico to look at this with fresh eyes. He's hoping to develop a new strategy and improve the investigation.

I'm glad to hear this. As someone commented to JR today in frustration about him expecting results from LE...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So I wonder if he's let his Mexican PI and attorney go. There was an American PI who offered assistance early on and said he had lots of experience in Mexico. I wonder if that's who it is.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/648217938686587/

He needs a literal timeline, a map with markers, and proof that these witnesses exist. I'm stuck at the family from Juchitan and their existence. Where did that info come from, and if from the family why are there so many variations of the facts? So if that was made up, so could the Corona guy be. Who has proof of all these supposed eye witnesses? The Mexican police?

You know, they are as corrupt as anyone. How do we know the police aren't behind her disappearance?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Lilibet - yes, I agree that Jenny most likely expired soon after, and close to where she was picked up. That is my belief. In dwelling on the checkpoints, (which are everywhere, with police holding assault rifles), perhaps the Corona trucks get through without delay. They are a powerful corporation there, after all. As a matter of fact, I can't think of one instance where I saw a truck stopped. It was always passenger cars.

The alternative, in my mind, as posted above, is that she is having some "unclear thinking" and wandering about the country side in some altered state of reality. Much much less likely than the first scenario mentioned.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

He needs a literal timeline, a map with markers, and proof that these witnesses exist. I'm stuck at the family from Juchitan and their existence. Where did that info come from, and if from the family why are there so many variations of the facts? So if that was made up, so could the Corona guy be. Who has proof of all these supposed eye witnesses? The Mexican police?

You know, they are as corrupt as anyone. How do we know the police aren't behind her disappearance?

Have been thinking exactly the same, even as to the supposed Corona driver, as you mentioned. I wonder if the folks with Cthe Chinese Embassey in Mexico have been able to find any further information as to Jenny's whereabouts. In the article about their meeting with Jenny's family, it was reported they had obtained information that Jenny had been seen still traveling and well in Mexico as late as in May, which is in complete contradiction to what JR supposedly has discovered. The article did not say what led them to that conclusion, so I am not completely certain as to its validity. Still, has JR tried to reach out to them at all? Or is it that the Chinese government has its hands tied, as far as sharing information with JR, because his and Jenny's marriage is not considered valid in China (sorry, I cannot remember whether they got married in China or in the U.S.)? Wouldn't it at the very least be worth a try for JR to reach out to the Chinese Embassey in Mexico (perhaps via their Embassey in D.C.) to see if they could somehow work together (really, IMO, it would be best if he and Jenny's family could work together, but even in this extremely dire situation, it must be somehow impossible for them to do so)? It seems to me he is just all over the place, isn't getting anywhere, yet he only has limited (donated) funds, and it all just seems so inefficient and futile. I'm sorry to say this, but it is so blatantly obvious that there is so much that JR is not sharing with those who trully want to help (e.g., the nature of his and Jenny's relationship), and given his trouble with the IRS, as well as his recent arrest (and the way he went about "explaining" it, in particular), I am going to have to take anything he says with a giant grain of salt, until someone other than JR can corroborate it. I am sure I would be at a total loss as to what to do if I were ever faced with a situation like the one JR -supposedly- is faced with, but I hope that I would be a little smarter as to how to and where to go for assistance, and as frustrating as the situation would have to be, be a little more thankful for any I help could get.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Once again, I'm giving JR a hall pass. I know that area, and I think his efforts have been herculian considering what he is up against. Sure he has made mistakes, but he is dealing with rules that are new and do not apply to our LE process. This guy went from being middle aged tech guy married to a much younger chinese woman to a man suddenly faced with an errant wife and dealing with multiple government agencies in foreign countries. Who the heck would be prepared for that? Frankly, if there is a miracle and she is found, I would send her home to her parents and stick to bowling and pinochle in the future.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

Interesting, I never knew there was a "secret" level on Facebook groups:

A few of us had a secret page a while back it kept others from finding the group and seeing who was in the group. We could still invite people to join the group.

Thanks, Lilibet & JerseyGirl. I forgot he was quoted saying that he waited for her at the hotel. Do you remember if he said he stayed for the remainder of his reservation? Because 5 days is a good amount of time to do a little digging, contacting friends who she's stayed with, pinging them on Facebook, (I know we've already discussed his calling hospitals and the police....), etc....

<modsnip> I can't imagine that he waited in a hotel for 5 days, and didn't reach out to every person on her FB page to ask if they've seen her or ask them for help, or even to let them know she's missing. He had her password, maybe he PMed them, but still I don't see her new friends spreading the word, so I don't think he did. Just guessing of course...

Sorry if I got any facts wrong! The details are starting to fade from my memory since losing access to both FB pages. :gaah:

<modsnip>

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[Lilibet]

He needs a literal timeline, a map with markers, and proof that these witnesses exist. I'm stuck at the family from Juchitan and their existence. Where did that info come from, and if from the family why are there so many variations of the facts? So if that was made up, so could the Corona guy be. Who has proof of all these supposed eye witnesses? The Mexican police?

You know, they are as corrupt as anyone. How do we know the police aren't behind her disappearance?

Welcome to our crazy-making thread, GigTu. As always, you ask good questions. There are no straight answers and haven't been from the beginning. Then JR hired a PI who presumably uncovered a lot of information, but we get little trickles from JR that provide more questions than answers. He also has an attorney, who has highly placed connections. He provided information in a radio interview, but that also raises more questions that don't get answered. And JR has a co-administrator CN on the FB page who shoots down questions. He rarely reels her in or gives an answer.

The Corona guy absolutely could be made up. And the police could be behind her disappearance, for all we know. JR has pinned his hopes on Corona guy for months, despite advice that he needs to broaden his search. In short, we know nothing. And the trail is cold. And it's very frustrating.

 

[Lilibet]

Once again, I'm giving JR a hall pass. I know that area, and I think his efforts have been herculian considering what he is up against. Sure he has made mistakes, but he is dealing with rules that are new and do not apply to our LE process. This guy went from being middle aged tech guy married to a much younger chinese woman to a man suddenly faced with an errant wife and dealing with multiple government agencies in foreign countries. Who the heck would be prepared for that? Frankly, if there is a miracle and she is found, I would send her home to her parents and stick to bowling and pinochle in the future.

I admire you for giving JR a pass. I usually give people a pass. Believe me, I've tried with JR. But here's why I can't even though I agree with what you have said. I have read the FB page almost since it opened. From the beginning, JR has been offered excellent advice and help from people who are either in Mexico or know how the system works. People in the US have tried to help with publicity here. But JR has not followed through on offers and suggestions, to the point that some potential helpers are now irritated with him. He has been an angry, authority-blaming and proud man from the beginning, which has rendered him ineffective and worked against him IMO.

He clearly does not have the temperament to handle this horrible situation. I don't fault him for being depressed, angry and probably immobilized at times. I feel sorry for him. But families of missing loved ones rise to this challenge all the time...stifle their anger, get friends to help, accept suggestions graciously, and above all, communicate information clearly to those trying to help on their FB page. JR is going in circles in a Herculean way, and while some of this has to do with dealing with Mexico, he was warned early on about the difficulties and how to handle it. If he had done everything right, it might not have made a difference. But he has been so whiny and ineffective that it's very hard for me to be anything but frustrated most of the time.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I understand your point Lilibet, but what if, despite his failings, he is doing the best he can with the abilities he possesses?
That's where I'm coming from.
This really is a frustrating situation, for sure. And a very sad one.