Mexico - Kaleo Skye, 3 & Roxy Rain 10 mos, killed by dad, Rosarito, 10 Aug 2021 *arrest in CA*

"He's really despondent and hopeless," the longtime family friend tells PEOPLE. "He's alone with his thoughts 24/7."

Oh, that poor poor guy!

It's all about him... He doesn't want to be seen "that bad". He did already reflect on his "behavior" and now want's to be forgiven... :(

How on earth could this be excusable in any way??? Killing small, defenseless children with a speargun is obviously not just a "mistake" you can later just reflect on... And why is it so important to him, that other people do forgive him? Even if it was his own wife.

How can he even go on with his own life... ? Doesn't he feel any pain after what he did to his own children? Did he ever love them? Or was this long planned to get rid of them ?

I can totally see him making this entire "I believed they could destroy the world-thing" up. I might have appeared better to him to be seen as mentally ill than as a cold-blooded calculated child-killer.

Especially since he now seems to be "reflecting" on his crimes. Tells me he could have reflected on his thoughts of killing his children and reached out for help to prevent harming them. If there had been any love for his children before, he would have probably done anything in his power to keep them safe.

Sorry, but this makes me so angry...
 
BBM. I'm glad they're looking into what influenced MC to think he had to kill his kids, but whatever did or didn't influence him, his actions were his own, IMO. Influence only goes so far; at some point, his own will had to engage and take control of his hands.

I dislike QAnon for many reasons, but QAnon lives only in the world of ideas. If we allow MC to blame QAnon for the murders of his children, we have given life to QAnon, given QAnon agency to act in the real world. But QAnon is bits of data, not flesh and blood. Like demons, and ghosts, and fairies: powerless. Without conscience. Even, imaginary. At least, un-real. Having given the unreal agency, we might now assign it responsibility, and blame, and consequences, but they would be empty, because there is no soul to carry them. Only numbers, zeros and ones, everchanging, incoherent and vast. No hands. MOO

I hope he - and we - won't blame QAnon. I'd have to break out my MKULTRA files.

Apologies for going all dystopian again.
SMH \rant off
Forgive me for quoting myself, but I just saw this and wanted to share:

Attorney says insanity plea is right outcome, but Gratiot County man's son worried that he could be released

Attorney says insanity plea is right outcome, but Gratiot County man's son worried that he could be released

Feb 10, 2022

  • >>>snip
Troy Burke admitted he shot his wife three times in January 2021, but a plea agreement reached a little more than a year later will keep him out of prison.
...


Burke told investigators that he had a neuro-link implanted in his brain, that he received messages on his tablet device from QAnon members telling him his wife was a CIA asset, involved in a sex trafficking ring and he needed to kill her.

Burke also told investigators his wife was a son of President Joe Biden, who had a sex change operation.


"He believed them. They may sound illogical to us. They may, when we hear them, we are thinking that's crazy for the lack of a better way to say that, but imagine being in the mindset where all of that is very real and very scary," Huyser said...

(
article continues)

snip<<<

From another article, here:

Gratiot County man pleads not guilty by reason of insanity to wife's murder

>>>snip

...Court records indicate Burke told police that he believed his tablet device was sending him signals from members of QAnon that his wife was a CIA asset and told him to kill her to save the world from child sex trafficking...

(article continues)

<<<snip
 
Forgive me for quoting myself, but I just saw this and wanted to share:

Attorney says insanity plea is right outcome, but Gratiot County man's son worried that he could be released

Attorney says insanity plea is right outcome, but Gratiot County man's son worried that he could be released

Feb 10, 2022

  • >>>snip
Troy Burke admitted he shot his wife three times in January 2021, but a plea agreement reached a little more than a year later will keep him out of prison.
...


Burke told investigators that he had a neuro-link implanted in his brain, that he received messages on his tablet device from QAnon members telling him his wife was a CIA asset, involved in a sex trafficking ring and he needed to kill her.

Burke also told investigators his wife was a son of President Joe Biden, who had a sex change operation.


"He believed them. They may sound illogical to us. They may, when we hear them, we are thinking that's crazy for the lack of a better way to say that, but imagine being in the mindset where all of that is very real and very scary," Huyser said...

(
article continues)

snip<<<

From another article, here:

Gratiot County man pleads not guilty by reason of insanity to wife's murder

>>>snip

...Court records indicate Burke told police that he believed his tablet device was sending him signals from members of QAnon that his wife was a CIA asset and told him to kill her to save the world from child sex trafficking...

(article continues)

<<<snip

I'm trusting that the defense's burden of proving legal insanity is high and why nationwide, only about 1% of all criminal defendants assert the insanity defense.

I just researched the NGRI defense and it's not any fun. However, I learned enough to know that I prefer the NGRI defense law in the 11 states where the burden is on the state or prosecution. (In California, the burden is on the defense).

For example, in Colorado where the burden is on the state, the prosecution only has to prove one element (not both) of the McNaghten Rule, beyond a reasonable doubt:

1) the defendant was capable of distinguishing right from wrong, measured against the societal standard of what is right and wrong, OR
2) capable of forming criminal intent.

Unless the criminal has a long or ongoing history of severe mental illness, I don't think the typical prosecution necessarily struggles to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was legally sane -- i.e., capable of distinguishing right from wrong, measured by the societal standard.

At least in the Colorado case of Leticia Stauch, accused of murdering her 12-year-old stepson Gannon, I believe there's much public evidence that I think proves she was sane at the time of the murder. Legal insanity isn't like turning a light switch turned on and off, where one day you're sane. and the next day you're not!

As for California, I find NGRI defense a whole different animal, beginning with its application of the McNaghten Rule:

1.1. The McNaghten rule in California

California adopted the McNaghten rule as its legal definition of insanity when voters passed Proposition 8, known as the “Victim’s Bill of Rights,” in 1982.

It is important to note that the California test for whether someone is legally insane only requires the defendant to prove that s/he was incapable of understanding the nature of his/her act OR that s/he was incapable of distinguishing right from wrong—not both.

[Both criteria exclude “moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives and kindred evil conditions”].

2.1. “Preponderance of the evidence” standard for the insanity defense

The defendant who pleads the insanity defense is required to prove that s/he was insane when the crime was committed by a “preponderance of the evidence. ”This means that s/he has to show that it is more likely than not that s/he was insane.

Contrast this to the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard of proof that the prosecution has to meet when it comes to the defendant’s guilt or innocence. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” means that the evidence is so strong that there is no logical explanation other than that the defendant is guilty.

But even under the preponderance of evidence standard, if the jury feels that neither side has the stronger argument on the insanity defense—that is, if the evidence on both sides is equally strong—then they must rule against the defendant.

3.1. Entering a “dual” plea of “not guilty” and “not guilty by reason of insanity”

The first way to enter a California insanity plea is to enter two pleas – one of “not guilty,” and a second of “not guilty by reason of insanity.”

The first “not guilty” plea means that you did not actually commit the crime with which you were charged. The second plea means that you are asserting that—even if you did commit the crime—you should not be convicted because you were insane when you did so.

If you enter a dual plea, you will make your way through the California criminal court process as follows: [..]

This process is what is called a “bifurcated trial”—because the question of your guilt and the question of your sanity are dealt with in two separate proceedings.

3.2. Sanity hearings in California

During the sanity hearing, the defendant presents expert witnesses—usually psychiatrists—who testify that at the time of the offense, the defendant either

  1. didn’t understand the nature of his/her act, or
  2. didn’t understand that the act was wrong.
These are the only issues that are relevant during the sanity trial.

If the jury decides unanimously that the defendant was insane when s/he committed the crime, then s/he will be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

The sanity hearing usually takes place before a jury—but not always. A judge may remove the issue of insanity from the jury if s/he feels that the defendant has failed to present sufficient evidence that they were insane when they committed the crime.

3.3. Entering a single plea of “not guilty by reason of insanity”

In some cases, a defendant and his/her attorney may decide that it makes the most sense not to bother with a standard “not guilty” plea. Instead, the defendant concedes that s/he is guilty of the offense and only pleads the insanity defense.

In these cases, the court proceeds directly to the sanity trial described in Section 3.2. There is no separate trial on guilt or innocence.

California's "Insanity Defense" - The McNaghten Rule

See more at the link for examples of the accused's defense, sentencing, and more.
 

wow. I find the parts about his wife very interesting, especially her text to MC

"We are doing this together
babe. Praying for clarity over you and your mind this morning. Everything you've believed and known to be true is happening
right now. I'm partnering with you from SB. Let's take back our city. The gateway of revival for the state of California and the nation and the world. You were created to change the course of world history. Take care of my little giant slayer and my the voice of heaven's dove. They sure are special."
 
wow. I find the parts about his wife very interesting, especially her text to MC

"We are doing this together
babe. Praying for clarity over you and your mind this morning. Everything you've believed and known to be true is happening
right now. I'm partnering with you from SB. Let's take back our city. The gateway of revival for the state of California and the nation and the world. You were created to change the course of world history. Take care of my little giant slayer and my the voice of heaven's dove. They sure are special."

Whoa, that changes my perspective on this tragedy. It’s MOO, but it sounds like she may have shared or even (intentionally or unintentionally) encouraged certain of her husband’s delusions. The “revival…of the nation and the world” comment along with her statement that “everything you’ve believed and known to be true is happening right now” are the ones that (I hate to even say this because I do think she is undeniably a victim of this horrific crime) particularly cause me to question her awareness/involvement/encouragement of her husband’s evil actions.
 
Whoa, that changes my perspective on this tragedy. It’s MOO, but it sounds like she may have shared or even (intentionally or unintentionally) encouraged certain of her husband’s delusions. The “revival…of the nation and the world” comment along with her statement that “everything you’ve believed and known to be true is happening right now” are the ones that (I hate to even say this because I do think she is undeniably a victim of this horrific crime) particularly cause me to question her awareness/involvement/encouragement of her husband’s evil actions.

I disagree about the wife being in on it (i.e., encouraged husband's evil act to murder their children). Many couples believe odd things and they don't go off and kill their babies.

MC told investigators the pieces came together when he was in Mexico in bed. He also told FBI that he started seeing ‘evil’ hand gestures everywhere and became convinced his wife and church leaders were in on a conspiracy against him.

His wife's last act was to contact their friend "AM" because she believed he might be one of those that's actually evil disguised as good (based on 10 yr old photo when he was age 13). Seems to me that MC had already put his wife in that category and probably why he left her behind. MOO

QAnon surfer accused of murdering two kids ‘thought he was Neo from The Matrix’
 
Whoa, that changes my perspective on this tragedy. It’s MOO, but it sounds like she may have shared or even (intentionally or unintentionally) encouraged certain of her husband’s delusions. The “revival…of the nation and the world” comment along with her statement that “everything you’ve believed and known to be true is happening right now” are the ones that (I hate to even say this because I do think she is undeniably a victim of this horrific crime) particularly cause me to question her awareness/involvement/encouragement of her husband’s evil actions.

I agree she shared some of his delusions and believed some of the qanon BS herself. Based on LEs interview with their friend, she at least believed the hand signal thing. And her verbiage to MC in the text is so odd to me.



Within hours of M. COLEMAN taking his children to Mexico, A.C. called A.M., and A.M. went to the Coleman Residence
A.C. showed A.M. a Facebook photograph of A.M and his friends when A.M. was approximately 13 years old (making the
photograph over 10 years old). The photograph depicted A.M. and his friends making hand gestures. Based, at least in part, on these hand gestures, A.M. said that A.C. accused him of "being in on it"
and eventually A.C. chased A.M. out of the Coleman Residence.
 
Thanks for the new links with some new info. This case is still very disturbing to follow for me.

If you look up "the top ten illuminati signs", even Mickey Mouse and a pope are accused of making evil hand signal gestures. You'll see many, many examples. It can be very convincing, and he was on these conspiracy sites more and more.

A hand gesture-- is that all the proof you'd need to believe your long time friend is really part of an evil conspiracy and not even human? Then, you see your spouse move her hand a certain way, and bingo you gotta kill the kids.

AC might've seen some of what he said as making sense, and maybe she ignored lots of warning signs. That story of her confronting the friend is bizarre, not sure I believe it happened exactly as stated. I wouldn't want to be in her position now going back over what lead MTC to kill their babies. So much senseless sorrow in this case.

I believe he will definitely go for an insanity plea...
Me too.
MOO, over time and constant effort, he drove himself to those outlandish beliefs, and his own big ego of his worldly role was a vehicle. Insane or caught up in a movie where you're the lead saving the world? Still seems he knew he was doing wrong. JMO, I would not want to serve on a jury for any cases with a mental insanity defense.
 
Matthew Coleman 'Deteriorated Rapidly,' Says Friend | PEOPLE.com
March 04, 2022 05:11 PM
"I'm going to make one thing perfectly clear," the friend said. "Abby loved those kids more than anything, and we all believed that Matthew did too. If anyone had even one thought that he was violent or dangerous, we would've done everything to stop it. This came out of left field for all of us, and we have to live with that every day for the rest of our lives."

Court Docs: Matthew Coleman Thought He Was Neo from The Matrix | PEOPLE.com
March 02, 2022 12:27 AM
"According to the affidavit of an FBI agent, during an interview with the FBI after his arrest last summer, Coleman, 40, told agents that while he was in Mexico — before he allegedly murdered his son Kaleo, 2, and daughter Roxy, 10 months — he had laid in bed "seeing all the pieces being decoded like The Matrix, and that he was Neo."'
 
wow. I find the parts about his wife very interesting, especially her text to MC

"We are doing this together
babe. Praying for clarity over you and your mind this morning. Everything you've believed and known to be true is happening
right now. I'm partnering with you from SB. Let's take back our city. The gateway of revival for the state of California and the nation and the world. You were created to change the course of world history. Take care of my little giant slayer and my the voice of heaven's dove. They sure are special."
euw so she was a q nut too.

New Docs Detail QAnon Surfer’s Chilling Spiral Days Before Kids Were Killed

from link - "
A.M. also told agents about a call he’d received from Abby a few hours after Coleman took off for Mexico, asking him to come over to their house. When he arrived, Abby showed A.M. a picture of him with his friends when he was about 13, “making hand gestures.”

“Based, at least in part, on these hand gestures, A.M. said that [Abby] accused him of ‘being in on it’ and eventually [Abby] chased A.M. out of the Coleman Residence,” the warrant says."
 
'Crazy Thoughts': Inside the Text Exchange Between Matthew Coleman & Wife on Morning of Kids' Murders

April 8, 2022
Just hours before Matthew Coleman allegedly killed his children with a spearfishing gun in Mexico, he exchanged texts with his wife, Abby, about his "crazy thoughts."

In a 30-page application for a search warrant obtained by PEOPLE, FBI special agent Joseph P. Hamer details the text exchange between Matthew and Abby Coleman on the morning of Aug. 9, 2021 -- the day that he allegedly killed their children: Kaleo, 2, and Roxy, 10 months.
[.....]
Less than two hours later, authorities allege that Matthew brought the children to a field where he stabbed them both in the chest with a spearfishing gun and hid their bodies underneath some brush. The bodies were discovered by a farmer later that morning.
[.....]
Matthew, 40, has pleaded not guilty to federal charges of murdering U.S. nationals on foreign soil. He is being held without bond at an undisclosed federal prison in California, and has undergone psychological testing to determine his state of mind. His attorney did not immediately return PEOPLE's calls for comment.
 
Wow, I have to admit I am shocked she was going along with him so much in his spiral down the rabbit hole. He needed help. Didn't she recognize it and was she really buying into it too? It bothers me that she fed his ego that he was meant to "change the world", and even that their children had special roles. The children were still so young to be saddled with those roles he deemed for them, and she went right along with that too. Take back SB? She wasn't even from Santa Barbara or California. It doesn't sound like she was challenging his weird thoughts, but going along with some of them. So, how did she think he was going to "change the world" or take back SB?

Matthew Coleman and Wife Exchanged Texts on the Day Children Died | PEOPLE.com April 08, 2022 03:07 PM
'Crazy Thoughts': Inside the Text Exchange Between Matthew Coleman & Wife on Morning of Kids' Murders

"We are doing this together, babe," she wrote. "Praying for clarity over you and your mind this morning. Everything you've believed and known to be true is happening right now. I'm partnering with you from SB. Let's take back our city. The gateway of revival for the state of California and the nation and the world You were created to change the course of world history. Take care of my little giant slayer and the voice of heaven's dove. They sure are special."


All MOO, my own thoughts, and reactions.
 
Wow, I have to admit I am shocked she was going along with him so much in his spiral down the rabbit hole. He needed help. Didn't she recognize it and was she really buying into it too? It bothers me that she fed his ego that he was meant to "change the world", and even that their children had special roles. The children were still so young to be saddled with those roles he deemed for them, and she went right along with that too. Take back SB? She wasn't even from Santa Barbara or California. It doesn't sound like she was challenging his weird thoughts, but going along with some of them. So, how did she think he was going to "change the world" or take back SB?

Matthew Coleman and Wife Exchanged Texts on the Day Children Died | PEOPLE.com April 08, 2022 03:07 PM
'Crazy Thoughts': Inside the Text Exchange Between Matthew Coleman & Wife on Morning of Kids' Murders

"We are doing this together, babe," she wrote. "Praying for clarity over you and your mind this morning. Everything you've believed and known to be true is happening right now. I'm partnering with you from SB. Let's take back our city. The gateway of revival for the state of California and the nation and the world You were created to change the course of world history. Take care of my little giant slayer and the voice of heaven's dove. They sure are special."


All MOO, my own thoughts, and reactions.
exactly! euw! insidious.
 
I'm trusting that the defense's burden of proving legal insanity is high and why nationwide, only about 1% of all criminal defendants assert the insanity defense.

I just researched the NGRI defense and it's not any fun. However, I learned enough to know that I prefer the NGRI defense law in the 11 states where the burden is on the state or prosecution. (In California, the burden is on the defense).

For example, in Colorado where the burden is on the state, the prosecution only has to prove one element (not both) of the McNaghten Rule, beyond a reasonable doubt:

1) the defendant was capable of distinguishing right from wrong, measured against the societal standard of what is right and wrong, OR
2) capable of forming criminal intent.

Unless the criminal has a long or ongoing history of severe mental illness, I don't think the typical prosecution necessarily struggles to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was legally sane -- i.e., capable of distinguishing right from wrong, measured by the societal standard.

At least in the Colorado case of Leticia Stauch, accused of murdering her 12-year-old stepson Gannon, I believe there's much public evidence that I think proves she was sane at the time of the murder. Legal insanity isn't like turning a light switch turned on and off, where one day you're sane. and the next day you're not!

As for California, I find NGRI defense a whole different animal, beginning with its application of the McNaghten Rule:

1.1. The McNaghten rule in California

California adopted the McNaghten rule as its legal definition of insanity when voters passed Proposition 8, known as the “Victim’s Bill of Rights,” in 1982.

It is important to note that the California test for whether someone is legally insane only requires the defendant to prove that s/he was incapable of understanding the nature of his/her act OR that s/he was incapable of distinguishing right from wrong—not both.

[Both criteria exclude “moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives and kindred evil conditions”].

2.1. “Preponderance of the evidence” standard for the insanity defense

The defendant who pleads the insanity defense is required to prove that s/he was insane when the crime was committed by a “preponderance of the evidence. ”This means that s/he has to show that it is more likely than not that s/he was insane.

Contrast this to the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard of proof that the prosecution has to meet when it comes to the defendant’s guilt or innocence. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” means that the evidence is so strong that there is no logical explanation other than that the defendant is guilty.

But even under the preponderance of evidence standard, if the jury feels that neither side has the stronger argument on the insanity defense—that is, if the evidence on both sides is equally strong—then they must rule against the defendant.

3.1. Entering a “dual” plea of “not guilty” and “not guilty by reason of insanity”

The first way to enter a California insanity plea is to enter two pleas – one of “not guilty,” and a second of “not guilty by reason of insanity.”

The first “not guilty” plea means that you did not actually commit the crime with which you were charged. The second plea means that you are asserting that—even if you did commit the crime—you should not be convicted because you were insane when you did so.

If you enter a dual plea, you will make your way through the California criminal court process as follows: [..]

This process is what is called a “bifurcated trial”—because the question of your guilt and the question of your sanity are dealt with in two separate proceedings.

3.2. Sanity hearings in California

During the sanity hearing, the defendant presents expert witnesses—usually psychiatrists—who testify that at the time of the offense, the defendant either

  1. didn’t understand the nature of his/her act, or
  2. didn’t understand that the act was wrong.
These are the only issues that are relevant during the sanity trial.

If the jury decides unanimously that the defendant was insane when s/he committed the crime, then s/he will be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

The sanity hearing usually takes place before a jury—but not always. A judge may remove the issue of insanity from the jury if s/he feels that the defendant has failed to present sufficient evidence that they were insane when they committed the crime.

3.3. Entering a single plea of “not guilty by reason of insanity”

In some cases, a defendant and his/her attorney may decide that it makes the most sense not to bother with a standard “not guilty” plea. Instead, the defendant concedes that s/he is guilty of the offense and only pleads the insanity defense.

In these cases, the court proceeds directly to the sanity trial described in Section 3.2. There is no separate trial on guilt or innocence.

California's "Insanity Defense" - The McNaghten Rule

See more at the link for examples of the accused's defense, sentencing, and more.
Interesting, thanks for the details.

This case strikes me as similar to the Chad Daybell/Lori Vallow case. Both (plus her dead brother) seem to have believed a theory about zombies which seemingly gave them permission to consciously commit multiple murders. Lori was actually declared incompetent, ie too insane to participate in her own trial, but after treatment, she has been cured sufficiently to face trial. If she ever had ideas about pleading not guilty by reason of insanity, IMO they've been squashed.

Whether you believe you're a prophet and are entitled to rid the world of zombies, or a chosen one ridding the world of lizard people, or just a plain old narcissist who thinks you're entitled to rid yourself of the inconvenience of raising small children, makes no difference to me.

I think I might look at a possible insanity plea if the killer had torn off his clothes, begun incoherently ranting and raving, run through the house stabbing photos, mirrors, magazines, pillows, himself, the family dog, one child and anything else that happened to be handy, run out the door continuing to stab plants, the ground, run into traffic, and around in circles, etc.

But this business of taking both his children and a spearfishing gun to Rosarito, calmly crossing the border, driving to a hotel and checking in, doing nothing that would indicate any plans to spearfish, but instead taking them to a deserted place, etc, etc. No, this is not insanity. This is malice and intent to kill. The law doesn't care why, the law says: that's what you did, now face the consequences.

JMO
 
Last edited:
Well - I missed this on the Judge's calendar... One day I don't look! :rolleyes:


May 18, 2022
A court hearing scheduled for Thursday for the Santa Barbara man accused of killing his two young children in Mexico has been delayed to late July.
[.....]

The U.S. Attorney’s Office and federal public defenders, who are representing Coleman in this case, asked the court to delay Thursday’s hearing to late July.

Prosecutors have not yet decided whether to pursue the death penalty in this case, and on June 27, defense attorneys plan to present information to prosecutors that “may bear on that decision,” according to court documents.

“Once that recommendation has been made, the parties will have a better idea of the direction that this case may take, and the amount of time that might be necessary to prepare for trial, in the event there is one,” attorneys wrote.

Attorneys also said there is at least one terabyte of digital discovery in this case and more information is expected, including results of search warrants from Internet service providers.

The judge granted the request and set a new hearing date of July 28 in U.S. District Court, Southern District of California.
 
Last edited:

Federal Government may seek the death penalty in QAnon father accused of killing his children in Mexico​

A new search warrant also reveals DOJ is working to dispel any insanity defense from Matthew Coleman.

In a May 13 court filing, U.S. Attorneys in San Diego asked for additional time before moving forward with the trial against Coleman as they "contemplate" whether to pursue the death penalty.

In addition, a new search warrant filed in federal court on June 3, shows the federal prosecutors continue to scour through Coleman's computers in hopes of determining whether or not he has a "legitimate mental illness."
 

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